Thinkpads Forum

I've been looking at reviews, but still not sure what the difference is between these units.
Thx.
Frank

You can find full details on both (all) ThinkPad models here --> http://www.lenovo.com/psref/pdf/tabook.pdf

Basically, the T420 can be configured as very entry level to very high end. The chassis is about 5 pounds and 1.2" thick.

The T420s models have less range with regard to configuration options, however, they are all higher end. The T420s chassis is 4 pounds and maximally 1" thick.

The T420 is more rugged for obvious reasons, while the T420s is a great travel machine, but requires reasonable care to keep it in good shape.

>>The T420s models have less range with regard to configuration options, however, they are all higher end. The T420s chassis is 4 pounds and maximally 1" thick.<,

Looking for fast, light and loaded. Sounds like the T420S may be for me.
Thx
Frank

There's no nine-cell option on the T420s and the six-cell battery is rated at a low wattage. That means the T420s won't offer as good battery life as the T420. The modular battery is an option on the T420s, but those tend to wear quickly.

I don't do a lot of travel.
I do like something that can be used as a "desktop" unit and then removed to be used around the house, outside, down at the coffee shop, etc.
I remember IBM used to have "docks" or "port replicators" that I used with the older versions of ThinkPads.
They were great. Slip it in for a desktop, slip it out for portability. And I didn't have to fool with cables, etc. Does Lenovo make those too???

Thx.
Frank

ZaZ wrote:There's no nine-cell option on the T420s and the six-cell battery is rated at a low wattage. That means the T420s won't offer as good battery life as the T420. The modular battery is an option on the T420s, but those tend to wear quickly.

Adding the 3 cell Ultrabay battery, for 9 cells total, does provide excellent overall battery life.

fjs08 wrote:I remember IBM used to have "docks" or "port replicators" that I used with the older versions of ThinkPads.

They are available for the T420s and other models, too.

underclocker wrote:Adding the 3 cell Ultrabay battery, for 9 cells total, does provide excellent overall battery life.

Still probably not as good as the regular T420, just by differences in overall capacity. And to get there one has to shell out a lump sum and lose the Ultrabay.

If you need a ultraportable 14 inch laptop then the T420s is the way to go, if you need a value for money 14 inch machine with acceptable weight and long battery life then the T420 is the way to go.

Read a bunch of reviews on the T420S.
Lots of folks complain about the screen.
Say it's grainy, not sharp, etc.
What's the consensus here??
I'd have mine hooked up to an external monitor most of the time, but I would use it around the house and out at the coffee shops periodically... enough to make a difference.

Thx.

Frank

It's average. If you calibrate the screen, it'll help some. Most notebook screens just aren't that great. The X220 is exceptional, but not the norm.

Hiya Frank;
seems you going thru same sets of 'choie' options as we all travelers do ....light weight; power package(speed of proc etc) and Display quality.... etc etc

Seems you know of the Older IBM models - yes lenovo still makes the Thinkpads - but quality IMHO is not same (nope dont want a flame discussion on TP QUality)..but scren not the same as what some T60/t61 series have had....with the current exception of X220 /X220T as ZaZ says...

Seems like your best choice would be i7 - X220 with SSD (make sure you order the 'premium display option from website) and Dock Plus (433830U) .... and you be IMPRESSED as with older IBM before.

This is what I used to have untill I switched to Sony Z2 = Huge price (mega bucks) but its all and everything anyone would want for work AND travel .............. and with Docking stations = Best of best !! <<happiest day for me since THE COMPANY decoded to NOT PUT ALL TEIR EGGS in ONE BASKET>>... to laptops >>> but sad as I used to love Thinkpads ,,,,,, but hey ,,, world dont stop for LeNOvo to fix its s**it ,.... (200+ laptops returned for quality isseus a year ... glad finally someone woke up !!)

Hope this helps (less the tp grips)
Cheers

fjs08 wrote:Read a bunch of reviews on the T420S.
Lots of folks complain about the screen.
Say it's grainy, not sharp, etc.
What's the consensus here??

The consensus? There isn't really one.

Personally, I don't think it's bad. It's not terribly good, but it's not like it's unusable. People tend to look back at older ThinkPads with the rose-tinted glasses of nostalgia, but honestly ThinkPads have never had great screens (with the exception of a few models produced c. 2004-2007). Even the much-praised 600X, from "back before the quality declined" (aka. when the labels said IBM, and thus were more appealing to the brand-conscious amongst us) had a pretty bad LCD with low contrast and narrow viewing angles.

The difference now, IMHO, is that people demand absolute perfection, and when they fail to get it they immediately whip around and crow about how "the Chinese are cheapening the brand", and how "quality has gone down hill", etc. I speak from experience here -- I did the same thing a while ago and jumped to conclusions regarding my X200s. (It turns out that I was wrong in my assessment, and that it was actually a superior machine to the ones to which I was comparing it.)

So is the screen bad? Eh. No worse than most other business notebooks of its class. Is it usable? Yep. Is it "grainy"? Well... that depends on how hard you're going to look for problems. It seemed like it to me when I got it, but then I stopped looking for flaws and started using the notebook. Once I did that, I found that I didn't notice it in day-to-day usage, and that the only time I even thought about it was when I read a post from somebody still in the nitpicking stage.

ausmike wrote:Seems you know of the Older IBM models - yes lenovo still makes the Thinkpads - but quality IMHO is not same but screen not the same as what some T60/t61 series have had....with the current exception of X220 /X220T as ZaZ says...

As much as everyone complained about the T60, non-flexview, and T61 screens, I can't imagine the T420 is much worse. I can say my R60's LCD, which are the same as used in the T60, was terrible. It had 1° viewing angles and was dim. At least the new screens are brighter. My X220i is as good as any ThinkPad I've used quality wise.

ZaZ wrote:As much as everyone complained about the T60, non-flexview, and T61 screens, I can't imagine the T420 is much worse.

I have seen some T420 (not T420s, though), and they don't seem worse than the T6x non-IPS screens. But that is not to say that I can't imagine worse. I've seen an X300 (or X301, forgot which) screen, and it was much worse. If your R60 screen had 1°, then that thing had something like -50°. And off-center colors did not only wash out, but turned into an ugly dull gray. Unfortunately, some people reported that the screen quality on the T400s/T410s was similar. So I would feel somewhat uneasy about T420s.

T420s display quality has been covered here --> http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=100225

The last four that passed through my hands actually looked quite good. As with all several other ThinkPad models, LCDs are sourced from more than one manufacturer, so your results may vary.

Lol.....dont we all love the "quality" topic!

underclocker wrote:As with all other ThinkPad models, LCDs are sourced from more than one manufacturer, so your results may vary.

The sole exception to this (that I know of) is the X300/X301 display which was, IIRC, a custom-made TMD panel. And yes, the above posters are right: it sucked. It was great in terms of thickness and size/resolution, but boy did it have lousy contrast and viewing angles...

• rob is correct on the X300/X301.   that panel was unique to that system and only came from TMD.
• the X1 would be another exception to the rule.   it uses a custom panel with the frame removed to make it thinner.   the outer lid then becomes the panel's structure akin to what apple did with the macbook air.
• a third exception would be the WXGA+ panel from the X200s/X201s models.   i'm not aware of any other manufacturer using that panel.
• the X60s/X61s "ultralight" panel was a custom TMD specifically made for lenovo.
• the same goes for the X220's IPS option from LG.   no one except lenovo uses it right now that i'm aware.
• the 15" 4:3 SXGA+ IPS panel in the T4x/T60 series only came from LG (scratch that... see below), unlike the UXGA panels which could be IDTech or BOE Hydis depending on the generation.
• the 15" UXGA TN panels in the A20 series were unique to IBM and either from Hitachi or IDTech (one or the other, not both) if memory serves.
• the 13.7" 5:4 SXGA (1280x1024) panel in the 770Z was unique and, i believe, made by Hitachi.

i'm sure there are other examples that i'm not remembering right now.

anyway, as far as new systems are concerned, it's safe to say that most models have multiple display sources but certainly not all.   each model has its own anomalies when it comes to panel specs and sources.

underclocker wrote:As will all other ThinkPad models, LCDs are sourced from more than one manufacturer, so your results may vary.

I'm going to change one word in my pronouncement from above (there are many exceptions to ThinkPad rules). As with all several other ThinkPad models, LCDs are sourced from more than one manufacturer, so your results may vary.

The bottom line with the T420s model remains the same, more than one panel manufacturer and some people like the LCDs, some do not. The four T420s machines that I've worked on had very good displays; very bright, good colors and reasonable viewing angles.

erik, I like to call him Wiki behind his back, as always has the answers.

13.7" 1280x1024, if you get than in a IPS, PVA or AFFS flavor, sounds pretty tasty. Almost the vertical resolution of SXGA+, but a lower PPI.

underclocker - no worries.   i wasn't trying to nitpick over word choice.   sometimes i spill information all over the table in a knee-jerk reaction.

zaz - i bought the SXGA model of 770Z new in '97 or '98.   to this day it's still one of my all-time favorites due to all the unique features.   honestly, i liked it more than my 701C even though the butterfly was more iconic.   the 770Z was a technical powerhouse.

anyway, back to the T420/T420s discussion.

Yet again erik demonstrates that he knows a hell of a lot more about LCDs than I do. Which, given my rather uneven success rate at ThinkPad display modifications, is not surprising...

erik wrote:the X1 would be another exception to the rule.   it uses a custom panel with the frame removed to make it thinner.   the outer lid then becomes the panel's structure akin to what apple did with the macbook air.

a third exception would be the WXGA+ panel from the X200s/X201s models.   i'm not aware of any other manufacturer using that panel.

I left out the X20xs panel, as I wasn't sure about whether it was used in other laptops. I didn't think it was custom-made for Lenovo since the datasheet that I got didn't list a single customer name, but I certainly didn't find any specs for other machines that listed it.

Good to know that about the X1. Perhaps that explains some of the high price?

the 13.7" 5:4 SXGA (1280x1024) panel in the 770Z was unique and, i believe, made by Hitachi.

Ah, of course. I forgot that there were some non 4:3 panels early on.

I also totally forgot about the IDTech panels, as they were (sorta) "home grown" -- and I never knew that the 15" SXGA+ IPS ones were LG-only.

ThinkRob wrote:I also totally forgot about the IDTech panels, as they were (sorta) "home grown" -- and I never knew that the 15" SXGA+ IPS ones were LG-only.

That's not strictly true. Early SXGA+ IPS on T4x series were IDTech, later on LG entered the game. For the T60 series the same LG panels are used, and there is a mysterious BOE-Hydis IPS SXGA+ panel mentioned in the maintenance manual (FRU 13N7196), which no one has reportedly seen to date.

that's what i get for going purely off of memory.   dr_st is correct, there are in fact IDTech FRUs for 15" SXGA+ IPS panels.   http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/TFT_display

see, i make just as many mistakes as everyone else.

No one mentioned fan noise so I presume it's not an issue with the 420s (e.g., fan having to work harder to cool tighter space)

Are the BF/ Cyber Monday / This weekend deals for the T420/s anything special compared to usual prices / EPP/CPP?

FYI > for T420s...last time I looked ,,, there was even beter DEALS for new laptops via LENOVO OUTLET SALE !!

...cheers

ausmike wrote:FYI > for T420s...last time I looked ,,, there was even beter DEALS for new laptops via LENOVO OUTLET SALE !!

...cheers

We cant get extended warranty with the outlet models anymore.. so ?