Thinkpads Forum

Hello!

Sadly, almost 4 years into my T61, my Nvidia card has to be reflowed. So I was looking at upgrading to a T400-500 at a reasonable price. Are you guys aware of any hardware issues on the T400-500 (ie. Nvidia GPUs on the T61 series) that I should be aware of before I look for a used laptop on Ebay?

I'm a student and I would like to be able to squeeze 3-4 years out of the laptop, but I don't want to spend more than 400$, nor buy a new laptop that's regular consumer grade.

Using the laptop mainly for surfing and word processing.

Thanks for any advice!
Tim

Wesley wrote:Sadly, almost 4 years into my T61, my Nvidia card has to be reflowed. So I was looking at upgrading to a T400-500 at a reasonable price. Are you guys aware of any hardware issues on the T400-500 (ie. Nvidia GPUs on the T61 series) that I should be aware of before I look for a used laptop on Ebay?

I already posted this elsewhere, but as this also applies here, i will simply cite it for you, albeit slightly edited:

While i disagree with the notion that a T61 is "kind of outdated" in certain contexts, a T500 offers a few very significant and worthwhile technical improvements. Not so much regarding computing speed, although there are quite some overall performance gains, but mainly due to some interesting internal technical enhancements.

You finally get rid of the legacy ATA interface of the Ultrabay and also have already builtin SATA-II on both HDD connectors. Then the availability of much cheaper DDR3 RAM modules is a definite plus, because upgrading to 8GB RAM has thus become very economic. Furthermore, the Intel graphics is much more improved and capable than any of its former varieties, and even the dreaded nVIDIA issue which plagued the T61's is gone for good. And while you are at it, some components of the T61 can still be used with the T500, like for example the keyboard and the docking station.

Go for it, a T400/T500 is a very good choice, and there are no known showstoppers which would make the purchase a bad investment.

In addition, i would try to get hold of a Intel graphics mainboard replacement for your T61, so that you can have a backup machine, just in case.

My recommendation would be either the T500, which is a great, solid machine OR a T410. The T410 offers considerable upgrades over the T400, so I'd pass on the T400 and stretch for the T410. Specifically, the newer generation i3, i5 & i7 processors and a flush 6 cell battery is enough to tips the scales for me. Used T410's are now starting to go in the $400 and up range. Look for one with a webcam, as these were optional.

I've seen very few (but not zero) reports of the ATI GPU also dying on the T400/T500 generation.

Hey rumbero and gang!

Thanks for your replies!

To rumbero: Actually, I'm still using my T61. I have the advanced dock and have a Nvidia 520 vidcard in the PCIe slot, so that's running the laptop graphics and I hooked up a 24" led to it so it's basically a desktop now. But as a student, I kinda need the portability aspect that only a laptop (barring tablets and netbooks) can provide. I like your suggestions on the ram ups and honestly, if it wasn't for the GPU on my T61, I was extremely happy with my T61. I was just saying recently, if I could squeeze another 4 years out if it, I'd be really extremely satisfied. 2.4 ghz, duocore2, @ 4 gbs does the job I need it to do.

To underclocker: I would like to get a T410, but since I have 3 advanced docking stations, I'm thinking of sticking with the T400/T500 for now. If I got a T410, I'd have to get more docking stations and that would be kinda expensive.

I hope I can find at least a 2.53 ghz T500 or T400 for 300-350$!

Thanks again!

Wesley wrote:if it wasn't for the GPU on my T61, I was extremely happy with my T61. I was just saying recently, if I could squeeze another 4 years out if it, I'd be really extremely satisfied. 2.4 ghz, duocore2, @ 4 gbs does the job I need it to do.

Unless you do not require any equivalent for the fancy dreaded nVIDIA GPU power, you could always fix the machine by finding a replacement mainboard with Intel graphics. This would breath in many more years of life into it.

Myself i am running a set of two Intel graphics based T61, primarily with Debian Linux, the favorite one of them being a wonderful Frankenpad (Intel graphics T61 mainboard/cpu within 15" T60 chassis equipped with an UXGA IPS display), with the other smaller 14.1" one for mobile usage. Still more than enough computing power for my particular needs, and probably for a long time to come. As superior CPU/GPU power is of no priority for me, a T500 with Intel graphics would be the only next best choice for me, due to a still more or less decent (=not vertically challenged) 1680x1050 resolution.

Wesley wrote:I would like to get a T410, but since I have 3 advanced docking stations, I'm thinking of sticking with the T400/T500 for now. If I got a T410, I'd have to get more docking stations and that would be kinda expensive.

Indeed. It does make more sense to stick with the T400 vs. the T410 in this case. The newer model docks are still over $100 each used. If you're patient, you will find both the T400 or T500 in your price range. Note that there were LED and CCFL LCD models with varying resolutions plus webcam/non-webcam models.

Pardon if this be OT but what of T500 vs W500 - is it much more heat in W500 or is cooling similar for both T500 & W500 ?

I did post a WTB for T500/W500 units w/ WSXGA+ & WUXGA, but got only 1 unit so far (cost lot more than $350). I would be certainly interested in W500 units at $ 300- 350 , ebay has few units , but USD 500-1000

Rgds
Ska

SKA wrote:Pardon if this be OT but what of T500 vs W500 - is it much more heat in W500 or is cooling similar for both T500 & W500 ?

I did post a WTB for T500/W500 units w/ WSXGA+ & WUXGA, but got only 1 unit so far (cost lot more than $350). I would be certainly interested in W500 units at $ 300- 350 , ebay has few units , but USD 500-1000

Rgds
Ska

The major differences between the T500 and the W500 are the video cards; the W500 has the FireGL variant of the T500's HD3650(although there are T500s out there with just Intel GPUs). The W500 is also available with a WUXGA display while the T500 maxes out at a WSXGA+; if you need the extra real estate you can get the UXGA panel and swap it into a T500.

Heat output should be similar; the ATI cards do get plenty hot when stressed. Basically, if you're interested in gaming the T500 will offer better performance(provided you get one with the 3650), but the W500 will be better for professional graphics/3D modelling apps as the card's drivers are tailored for that sort of work. That comes at a cost of reduced gaming performance.

rumbero wrote: Unless you do not require any equivalent for the fancy dreaded nVIDIA GPU power, you could always fix the machine by finding a replacement mainboard with Intel graphics. This would breath in many more years of life into it.

Myself i am running a set of two Intel graphics based T61, primarily with Debian Linux, the favorite one of them being a wonderful Frankenpad (Intel graphics T61 mainboard/cpu within 15" T60 chassis equipped with an UXGA IPS display), with the other smaller 14.1" one for mobile usage. Still more than enough computing power for my particular needs, and probably for a long time to come. As superior CPU/GPU power is of no priority for me, a T500 with Intel graphics would be the only next best choice for me, due to a still more or less decent (=not vertically challenged) 1680x1050 resolution.

I walked into a pc store today and found that they were selling used mainboards for 30$ canadian, but I don't know how hard it would be to change the mainboard myself, or whether I should get it done by a "professional". I have fiddled around with my T61, took out the fan for a good clean.

Would anyone know if it be worth it to reflow the Nvidia card for 80$? I know of a guy that quoted me that price.

underclocker wrote:ndeed. It does make more sense to stick with the T400 vs. the T410 in this case. The newer model docks are still over $100 each used. If you're patient, you will find both the T400 or T500 in your price range. Note that there were LED and CCFL LCD models with varying resolutions plus webcam/non-webcam models.

I'm assuming that the LED version is the version that I would like?!
The good thing about my advanced dock is that I can upgrade the videocard through the PCIe port in the docking station. Right now, I have a Nvidia 520 in my docking station and it's running my graphics for my T61.

SKA wrote:Pardon if this be OT but what of T500 vs W500 - is it much more heat in W500 or is cooling similar for both T500 & W500 ?

I did post a WTB for T500/W500 units w/ WSXGA+ & WUXGA, but got only 1 unit so far (cost lot more than $350). I would be certainly interested in W500 units at $ 300- 350 , ebay has few units , but USD 500-1000

Rgds
Ska

I looked into a W500, it's just way too expensive for me at this moment.

Thanks for tips, I also hear W500 units with Samsung WUXGA panels are no good, not sure how to ascertain which other maker's panel available for W500 and from where.

For 15.4" the WSXGA+ 1680 x 1050 has comfortably sized fonts, for 17" the WUXGA may be better for viewing comfort.

Rgds
Ska

Wesley wrote:I walked into a pc store today and found that they were selling used mainboards for 30$ canadian, but I don't know how hard it would be to change the mainboard myself, or whether I should get it done by a "professional". I have fiddled around with my T61, took out the fan for a good clean.

Would anyone know if it be worth it to reflow the Nvidia card for 80$? I know of a guy that quoted me that price.

Forget about the reflow, it would just be a severe waste of money. The issue is related to inferior soldering material inside the nVIDA chip and no reflow will be able to fix such a quality fault in the long run.

If you can get hold of a suitable replacement board, than just go for it and try to replace it yourself. The only thing you need is a suitable screw driver that doesn't damage the screws, lots of patience and time, and good documentation.

To determine the correct FRU for your machine's mainboard, go to either www-947.ibm.com/support/entry/portal/parts or support.lenovo.com/en_US/product-and-parts/partsLookup.page, and query the database for the parts inventory of your particular machine with your machine type and serial number. Look for the word PLANAR in the resulting parts list, and the number in the second left column next to the PLANAR entry should match your mainboard FRU. It should be one of the FRU's mentioned here in the table at the bottom of the page of thinkwiki.de/T61#Mainboard-.2FSystemboard-.2FPlanartausch. If you get the chance, prefer the Penryn capable mainboard over the Merom capable one. It is backward compatible to Merom CPU's, while the reverse unfortunately does not apply (at least not without an unofficial BIOS patch from forum.notebookreview.com/6501443-post75.html).

You will find all the required documentation at the lenovoservicetraining.com/ion/R61_T61 website. There are lots of videos explaining each step in great detail, and together with the very detailed Hardware Maintenance Manual available via download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/pc/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/42x3547_04.pdf everyone with some patience and a steady hand should be able to replace the mainboard. Just take extreme care to keep the screws organized, so that you don't have to wonder where which screw goes into when finally reassembling the machine.

I did it myself already a few times based on these documentation sources as the only reference, and if i was able to do it without any former experience, why shouldn't you be able to accomplish the very same? Thinkpads are built for being easily serviceable, so it is not really as difficult as it may seem.

SKA wrote:Thanks for tips, I also hear W500 units with Samsung WUXGA panels are no good, not sure how to ascertain which other maker's panel available for W500 and from where.

For 15.4" the WSXGA+ 1680 x 1050 has comfortably sized fonts, for 17" the WUXGA may be better for viewing comfort.

Rgds
Ska

the samsung WUXGA panels aren't THAT bad. the brightness could use a little help. if there is an LG WUXGA panel that came with the W500 it's probably better though.