T420 and 16gb RAM

[wolfman]

Hello all,
I'm considering selling my Thinkpad T410 and buying a T420. I'm going to configure the new T420 with Intel Core i5-2450M (http://ark.intel.com/products/53452/Int ... -2_50-GHz)). Clearly states that it supports 16gb of RAM at the Intel link for the chip.

This is a touchy point for me as it's the only reason I'm selling my T410 is that I need to go to 16gb of RAM and it's maxed at 8gb. So, since Lenovo (and other sites like Crucial's memory configurator) still says 8gb max - can anyone confirm that they have 16gb of RAM working without issue in a T420 with a 64 bit OS?

Thanks!

[indicium]

I know how you feel about the T410, I've had mine almost 2 years and love it, however like you I feel constrained trying to do advanced vitrualization with 8 GB. So, I was looking at the W520 Quad-Core (4276-3KU) that goes up to 32 GB and was ready to pull the trigger but then decided to wait for the W530 due in April since its only 6 weeks away till launch.

[wolfman]

Funny you should say that as I was just having that conversation with one of my friends. As I upgraded my desktop to 16gb of RAM for a project a couple weeks ago, I might decide to at least wait and see what is announced.

In the meantime, I'd really like to hear from someone using 16gb of RAM in a T420 with a 64 bit OS. Also interested in mSATA SSD feedback as well as I'd like to boot from the mSATA drive and use my 750gb 7200 RPM drive in place of the factory drive leaving the ultrabay available for additional drive if needed.

[SchlageR]

RAM:
My T420 runs fine with 16GB. I don't use virtualization, but when I play games like APB:R, Mass Effect or half-life2 at max settings I notice an improvement in performance as compared to when I only had 8GB. The 16GB I use is Elpida ram, just like the 8GB that came from Lenovo.
MSATA:
I used the Intel 310 80GB msata SSD by intel as my boot drive for a while and it was really good. I bought a Kingston hyperX SSD because the msata SSD is SATA II and the hyper x is SATA III, but didn't notice much of a difference between the two. It's nice to have the 80GB SSD because you can have 3 drives on your laptop instead of two, but 80GB msata by intel cost $200 and 120GB by Hyperx cost me $200 so if money is a factor I'd buy save up for a larger SATA III SSD.

If you want to see my WEI to get an Idea, I recently posted it on page 16 of http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... &start=450

x64 ubuntu11.10 vs windows7:
I used to run ubuntu 10.10 and 11.04 on a t410 before I bought my t420. I had difficulty installing 11.10 on my T420. When I finally installed it it was really slow to boot on my SSD. I have my system configured with uefi and ahci in bios, and windows 7 boots in 24 seconds (intel 310 80GB) or 20 seconds (hyper x 120GB) after clean install. Maybe you can figure it out, but I got this system for games so windows was just easier for me.

TMI advice:
The T420 is a very light and powerful machine, it's very good for travel, but the screen is pretty bad. Ram has gotten cheaper and my 16GB upgrade cost me half as much as the 8GB I bought from Lenovo. A W520 would have a better screen and better ram options if you get a quad-core, but it has a heavy brick charger and is larger over all than the T420. My advice is to wait till the ivy bridge thinkpads are released, or the next holiday to get a T420, and order it by phone if you decide on the T420.

[wolfman]

Thanks a lot SchlageR for that very detailed response!

Glad to hear that you're working fine with 16gb of RAM. Also, interesting to hear about your mSATA (SATA II) vs. SSD (SATA III) experience. I do use the machine for VM work, so I'm willing to pay a bit more for the mSATA drive so that I can have 3 internal disks. I have the ultrabay adapter from my T410 that is supposed to be compatible with the T420.

I'm curious to see how I'll like the W520 as I've given that a lot of thought as well. I'm going to be issued one from work in the next two weeks or so. Early returns from others I've seen in the office is that the 15.6 1920x1080 display is quite nice and with better viewing angles that my T410 1440x900 (but not as good as the 1900x1200 IPS 24 inch display I have my dock hocked up to for my personal Thinkpad at home).

The 4 RAM slots and 2.4 ghz quad core CPU on the W520 are definitely an attraction. I'm turned off by the 15.6 inch form factor and the 170 watt power supply size / weight. Also, I typically buy machines with integrated graphics as its good enough for my use case and usually results in a machine that is quieter and with less problems over it's lifetime as I don't game on the machine - so the Quadro card would be overkill for me. However, 90%+ of the time I am using the machine it's in a dock with the lid closed and using the external display (different DPI's from the internal and external display mess with my eyes after 10-12 hours, so I only use dual display if they are identical - personal choice).

I have a pretty good offer for my T410 now that will let me flip it and get a T420 with the specifications I want for an additional $100 or so. I'd then need to add the mSATA drive and RAM, but with the current sale plus EPP, it's a pretty good time right now to get a current one. That said, I am very interested in the 35 watt Ivy Bridge quad core that is rumored to be OEM available in April. Would love to get one of those in a 14.1 inch form factor.

Great stuff to think about. Thanks again for the detailed response, very much appreciated!

[wolfman]

Oh also, good to know regarding UEFI. I was just beginning to research whether or not I'd like to try that as I haven't before. A couple of the other reviews I've read (like this one: http://www.tomsick.net/misc/lenovo-thin ... eview.html) about T420's and Ubuntu specifically didn't mention that they used UEFI, so wanted to thank you specifically for that part as well.

[jayton4]

If you do get the T420 for the extra memory to do virtualization, then do not waste your time and money on the i5-2450m. It does not support Vt-d. Get something from the i5-25X0m series such as the 2520m.

[wolfman]

Thanks Jayton4. I saw the 2450M support VT-x but not VT-d and was researching how much I'd benefit from VT-d with VirtualBox. I'll likely just spend the extra $45 processor upgrade and be safe about it.

[wolfman]

Well, placed the order and ended up with the following:

T420 2520m 2.5 ghz dual core, 4 thread
4gb RAM but have 16gb coming separately
14.1 inch 1600x900 display with 720p camera
320gb 5400 RPM disk, have Intel 520 120gb SSD on the way and will add my 750gb Hitachi 7200 RPM to ultrabay adapter
6300 wireless

Thanks for the help everyone.

[jayton4]

Well, placed the order and ended up with the following:

T420 2520m 2.5 ghz dual core, 4 thread
4gb RAM but have 16gb coming separately
14.1 inch 1600x900 display with 720p camera
320gb 5400 RPM disk, have Intel 520 120gb SSD on the way and will add my 750gb Hitachi 7200 RPM to ultrabay adapter
6300 wireless

Thanks for the help everyone.

Nice machine!

[wolfman]

x64 ubuntu11.10 vs windows7:
I used to run ubuntu 10.10 and 11.04 on a t410 before I bought my t420. I had difficulty installing 11.10 on my T420. When I finally installed it it was really slow to boot on my SSD. I have my system configured with uefi and ahci in bios, and windows 7 boots in 24 seconds (intel 310 80GB) or 20 seconds (hyper x 120GB) after clean install. Maybe you can figure it out, but I got this system for games so windows was just easier for me.

SchlageR, I see exactly what you mean. I did the install with Ubuntu 11.10 64 bit and after first reboot, no joy, just hangs and can't find the grub-efi boot loader.

So I went ahead and rebooted, flipped the option back to legacy BIOS and re-installed the OS. Right now it takes about 11 seconds or so to get to the login prompt from cold boot and another 4 seconds or so after entering password to get to a desktop.

I guess I could shave 4-5 seconds off that with UEFI, but I don't know that I am going to bother with it.

[beratko83]

Hello all, i'm new with forum.

i would like to upgrade my thinkpad's memory to 16 gb.

But my local dealer says that, thinkpad t420 supports max 8gb ram.

I saw that wolfman uses t420 with 16 gb ram.

Are there any problems with 16 gb ram?

[wolfman]

beratko83,

Welcome to the forum. Intel shows that your chip / chipset can address up to 16gb of RAM: http://ark.intel.com/products/52229/Int ... -2_50-GHz). What typically happens is Lenovo tests with the maximum RAM that they sell for the unit at launch based on what is available practically at the time.

As recently has September, 2011, 16gb of RAM cost $800. So it wasn't practical. Since Lenovo is not selling T420's with 16gb, they've not certified internally and raised the max from 8gb to 16gb. However, Intel makes the chip and the chipset and they say it works with 16gb. And I know it works fine with 16gb as well.

You should be able to order the RAM and install it yourself in a few minutes. Good luck.

Steve

[EngineersCake]

This is pretty exciting for me.

My new T420 should be coming on Tuesday.

16 GB in a few days!

[wolfman]

Congrats! The T420 is a very nice machine. It feels a lot like the T410 I sold, alas, because it could only go to 8gb RAM max. Highly recommend an SSD to go along with the 16gb of RAM. I've installed an Intel 520 series and it's very, very fast.

[EngineersCake]

Thanks wolfman.

My build is the core i7, Nvidea 4200m, 500 GB (7200 rpm) unit.

The upgrade path I'm pretty set on is the 16 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD (system drive, OS & applications) and the 500 GB hard drive in a ultra slim bay III adapter.

I'm interested in the mSATA drive discussion you were having before. Is this new tech or am I just late to the game? (Mind you I havent bought a new computer since 2007.) Would it make sense to use mSATA for the system drive, and replace the platter drive with with an SSD?

So many things to consider, and it's looking like the machine won't be here until Thursday.

[jayton4]

The upgrade path I'm pretty set on is the 16 GB RAM, 128 GB SSD (system drive, OS & applications)

If you are considering a 128GB drive, then that means you are looking at non-Sandforce 2281 drives. I would seriously consider the 120GB or 180GB options from Corsair (Force GT, Force 3), Patriot (Wildfire, Pyro SE), or Intel 520. Don't go this far and then cheap out on the SSD! The Sandforce drives are using the other 8GB for garbage collection, and keeps the speeds high over a longer period of time in between secure wipe/reinstalls.

The mSATA thing is kind of new tech. The T420 is the first of the T-series to support it. It was originally designed for caching with SLC NAND (Larsen Creek, Hawley Creek), but people are using it for their main SSD with MLC NAND (OCZ Nocti) for boot & apps. The caching idea is being used in Seagate Momentus XT, Intel Smart Response, and several new 2.5" drives from the SSD makers (Crucial Adrenaline), with the idea that the files accessed the most often would be residing on the NAND and the spinning optical stuff. Bottom line is that it is the best idea you have if you don't want to give up your DVD drive to the Ultrabay hard drive adapter for that 7200rpm noise-maker. The 2.5" SSD will give you a measurably faster speed than the mSATA solution. My vote is skip mSATA.

I put the original 7200rpm 'jackhammer' drive in the Ultrabay and it only whirs up (thankfully) when I start utorrent.

[EngineersCake]

Thanks for schooling me on the mSATA.

I'm looking forward to getting the RAM and SSD shortly after the computer arrives (tomorrow).

Are there complications with migrating the system from the factory loaded "jackhammer" drive to the SSD?

Thanks for the info and sorry for jacking the thread...

EC

[andpgud]

regarding the 420s, it sais that you can only have one up to i5 on the lenovo site.
I have seen some guys with the 420s and a i7. What am I missing here?

[EngineersCake]

I saw the same thing on the Lenovo website, but after doing a quick google search I came across several retailers that do sell a core i7 T420s.

http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/Lenovo ... 16668.aspx

http://www.pcmall.com/p/Lenovo-Notebook ... dpOverview

ZDnet has an assortment of reviews of the most current i7 T420s here:
http://www.zdnet.com/reviews/product/la ... d/35042834

Hope this helps. (My T420 is on the UPS truck for delivery now!)

[jayton4]

Are there complications with migrating the system from the factory loaded "jackhammer" drive to the SSD?

None at all. Best way is to create recovery media, swap the drives and do a clean install to the SSD. Once you boot up for the first time on the SSD, delete the restore partition. Keep the original Windows install and recovery partition on your 7200rpm drive in case something ever goes horribly wrong.

[EngineersCake]

Thanks Jayton4.

I'll keep that in my arsenal for when I get my SSD.

-EC