Thinkpads Forum

I've been a "thin and light" user for a long time, so that's what I'll continue to use in all probability. Now that my X301 is getting a little long-in-the-tooth, I'm starting to look at replacements. My initial thought was to get the first gen X1 and be done with it, as I really prize the lighter weight. However, as I look more and more into it, I'm becoming more intrigued by the T420s.

The usage of this computer is in the following pattern:
* In general, I use it around the house, but it moves around quite a bit.
* I have a rather consistent computing/IT side-business that occasionally requires me to take my machine to a client's location.
* I rarely use an optical drive myself, but occasionally need to access files/utilities that are on a disk.
* My aging eyes aren't tolerating high pixel density as well these days, and finding panels such as the UXGA on my T60p hard to use.
* I don't generally need a ton of battery life since I'm not a "get on a plane and work" kind of guy.

Does anyone here have experience making this move or specific thoughts related to the T420s? If so, I'd certainly welcome any commentary on the idea.

schen wrote:* In general, I use it around the house, but it moves around quite a bit.
* I have a rather consistent computing/IT side-business that occasionally requires me to take my machine to a client's location.

In that sense it will be very similar to your X301. It's marginally larger and heavier, but very close.

schen wrote:* I rarely use an optical drive myself, but occasionally need to access files/utilities that are on a disk.

Is this "occasionally" likely to arise when you are outside of your house? If not, then a built-in optical is not a must, IMO, since you can always use a docking station / external drive when at home.

schen wrote:* My aging eyes aren't tolerating high pixel density as well these days, and finding panels such as the UXGA on my T60p hard to use.

A T420s with 1600x900 will be very close to the T60p UXGA - so you should be wary of that. You can get the lower resolution perhaps (1366x768), but IMO it's just not enough real estate for serious work. And in fact I am not sure the T420s was ever offered with the lower resolution. At least the preconfigured models were not.

schen wrote:* I don't generally need a ton of battery life since I'm not a "get on a plane and work" kind of guy.

In which case any modern machine should give you enough.

dr_st wrote:In that sense it will be very similar to your X301. It's marginally larger and heavier, but very close.

Have never seen a T4x0s machine "in-the-flesh", that's good to know, because I really don't want to do a significantly bigger/heavier machine having been spoiled by the X300/301

Is this "occasionally" likely to arise when you are outside of your house? If not, then a built-in optical is not a must, IMO, since you can always use a docking station / external drive when at home.

Good observation and it made me realize that I hadn't thought of that. I'd say that most of time that I "need" an optical drive is outside the home.

A T420s with 1600x900 will be very close to the T60p UXGA - so you should be wary of that. You can get the lower resolution perhaps (1366x768), but IMO it's just not enough real estate for serious work. And in fact I am not sure the T420s was ever offered with the lower resolution. At least the preconfigured models were not.

I really think, I just going to have to bear the higher res. I'm really addicted to the higher res ones going back to the T42 and it's SXGA+. I have the 1366 x 768 on an L420 at work and really don't care for it at all!

In which case any modern machine should give you enough.[/quote]

Thanks you for your thoughts.

T420s is a fine machine and I don't have too many gripes about it apart from:

a) Touchpad. Gawdawful IMO, and the trackpad itself wears off exceptionally fast.

b) LCD. Even the very best of them are meh.

Do bear in mind that the difference in size is not all that insignificant, when compared to X301.

Happy upgrading.

So, then there is an advantage to a built-in optical drive, and so a slim T-series is probably the way to go.

T410s is the same resolution as your current X301, so will be easier on your eyes. But it's already old, and not so much better than the X301 (just one generation ahead).

T420s will be somewhat faster, better battery life, and is a worthy upgrade to the X301, if you can live with the higher resolution.

T430s is another incremental upgrade to the T430s - a nice option if you are comfortable with the new 6-row island keyboard.

Careful: the T410 uses 2.5" hard drives but T410s uses 1.8" hard drives (same as your X301).
T420 and up all use 2.5" drives.

RealBlackStuff wrote:Careful: the T410 uses 2.5" hard drives but T410s uses 1.8" hard drives (same as your X301).
T420 and up all use 2.5" drives.

Thanks for the reminder RBS. I had kind of decided to rule the 410 out anyway and am leaning towards the T420 or 430. If I can afford the 430, it has the mSATA socket and I can take advantage of that since the price of those are pretty reasonable these days.

Am I correct in assuming nobody here is going to try and make a case for the X1?

schen wrote: If I can afford the 430, it has the mSATA socket and I can take advantage of that since the price of those are pretty reasonable these days.

T420/s has the mSATA slot as well...along with the proper keyboard...

ajkula66 wrote:

schen wrote: If I can afford the 430, it has the mSATA socket and I can take advantage of that since the price of those are pretty reasonable these days.

T420/s has the mSATA slot as well...along with the proper keyboard...

Well, now that sheds a new light on the situation!

Which reminds me that I have this lovely T420 with mSATA SSD and regular HD for sale: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=114903

That's a T420, not a T420s. A completely different animal. Much thicker and heavier.

schen wrote:Am I correct in assuming nobody here is going to try and make a case for the X1?

Normally I would, but the X1 is not just a laptop that you simply buy and use. Only hardcore fans and fanatics choose this model and gladly pay the premium. (if they can find one, took me half a year to get mine) A good X1 will cost you 800€ in Europe, perhaps more. Not sure about the US though, but a quick ebay search suggests that things aren't much better over there either.

Anyway, IMO the X301, T420s and X1 can be divided into 3 classes. The X301 is a very unique model that puts an emphasis on quality. No ThinkPad that came after the X301 can keep up with it in terms of quality and the amount of craftsmanship that went into it. Also it is by far the lightest and smallest of the three, the difference isn't as minor as some may say, at least in my opinion.

The T420s may be similar to the X301 in many regards but really, it is a completely different notebook to me. It takes the opposite route of the X301, trying to achieve high quality on the cheapest way possible. That doesn't mean that it feels cheap, it is quite a step up from the normal T420 for example, but it in no way compares to the X301. It's noticeably bigger, thicker and heavier.

The X1 on the other hand lies somewhere in between, though it leans more towards the X301 and it is also classified as a halo product. Back in the day, the T420s was the "budget thin and light model" whereas the X1 was the real deal. It is thinner and slightly smaller than the T420, but still weighs the same. What really makes the X1 stand out though, apart from build quality, is its durability. While the X301 was a masterpiece in itself, the X1 really picks up where the old IBM 600 left off. The X1 has an all magnesium construction and a very thick shell, making it heavy, but cheaper than the X301 and most importantly, extremely rugged. You can do fun things with it like dropping it from a ceiling.

So quality-wise (taking into account everything, not just the body), the X301 wins, the X1 comes in second and the T420s comes in third.

Which one is best for you? Well, specs-wise, both the X1 and T420s are very similar. That is why I just explained the whole "quality thing" to you because, IMO, when choosing between those two, it basically comes down to how much quality you want in general. The X1 is more unique and I'd consider it a premium product with premium features, as opposed to the mainstream T420s.

I've played around with the T420s and own a X301 and X1, so if there is anything specific you want to know, just ask.

Here are some size / measurements data from the LTWBOOK, for reference:

X301:
Dimensions:3-cell: (WxDxH): 12.5" x 9.09" x 0.73-0.92"; 318mm x 231mm x 18.6-23.4mm; 6-cell: (WxDxH): 12.5" x 9.09" x 0.85-0.92"; 318mm x 231mm x 18.6-25.9mm
Weight: 3-cell: from 3.16 lb (1.43kg); 6-cell: from 3.35 lb (1.52kg)

X1:
Dimensions: 13.3W" (WxDxH): 13.26" x 9.1" x 0.65-0.84"; 337mm x 231.1mm x 16.5-21.3mm
Weight: Integrated battery: from 3.73 lb (1.69kg)

T420s:
Dimensions: 13.5" x 9.1" x 0.83–1.02"; 343 x 230.1mm x 21.2–26.0mm
Weight: 6-cell: starting at 3.68 lb (1.67kg)

T420:
Dimensions:: 13.4" x 9.17" x 1.18–1.20"; 340.5 x 233.0mm x 30.1–30.5mm
Weight: 4-cell: from 4.60 lb (2.09kg); 6-cell: from 4.79 lb (2.17kg); 9-cell: from 5.17 lb (2.35kg)

Aurora wrote: Normally I would, but the X1 is not just a laptop that you simply buy and use. Only hardcore fans and fanatics choose this model and gladly pay the premium. (if they can find one, took me half a year to get mine) A good X1 will cost you 800€ in Europe, perhaps more. Not sure about the US though, but a quick ebay search suggests that things aren't much better over there either.

Anyway, IMO the X301, T420s and X1 can be divided into 3 classes. The X301 is a very unique model that puts an emphasis on quality. No ThinkPad that came after the X301 can keep up with it in terms of quality and the amount of craftsmanship that went into it. Also it is by far the lightest and smallest of the three, the difference isn't as minor as some may say, at least in my opinion.

The T420s may be similar to the X301 in many regards but really, it is a completely different notebook to me. It takes the opposite route of the X301, trying to achieve high quality on the cheapest way possible. That doesn't mean that it feels cheap, it is quite a step up from the normal T420 for example, but it in no way compares to the X301. It's noticeably bigger, thicker and heavier.

The X1 on the other hand lies somewhere in between, though it leans more towards the X301 and it is also classified as a halo product. Back in the day, the T420s was the "budget thin and light model" whereas the X1 was the real deal. It is thinner and slightly smaller than the T420, but still weighs the same. What really makes the X1 stand out though, apart from build quality, is its durability. While the X301 was a masterpiece in itself, the X1 really picks up where the old IBM 600 left off. The X1 has an all magnesium construction and a very thick shell, making it heavy, but cheaper than the X301 and most importantly, extremely rugged. You can do fun things with it like dropping it from a ceiling.

So quality-wise (taking into account everything, not just the body), the X301 wins, the X1 comes in second and the T420s comes in third.

Which one is best for you? Well, specs-wise, both the X1 and T420s are very similar. That is why I just explained the whole "quality thing" to you because, IMO, when choosing between those two, it basically comes down to how much quality you want in general. The X1 is more unique and I'd consider it a premium product with premium features, as opposed to the mainstream T420s.

I've played around with the T420s and own a X301 and X1, so if there is anything specific you want to know, just ask.

These are excellent points and in fact the very thing that I've been wrestling with in relation to this upgrade. I tend to lean toward "halo" products due to the extra care in build quality that they are given. I can say that over the years, it's these items that I've loved and remembered. The late 60's Omega Constellation, the '88 BMW M5, Nikon D300 and ThinkPad 701C. And the X301 (and the X300 before it) fits right in there. I use it almost every day and virtually every time, I'm impressed by it's engineering, fit and finish. Which is why I put the X1 in there with the other machines despite the fact that it's missing an optical drive.

You may have actually convinced me to hang on to the X301 for a bit longer. After all, my heavy lifting is handled by an Ivy Bridge desktop workstation!

ajkula66 wrote:

schen wrote: If I can afford the 430, it has the mSATA socket and I can take advantage of that since the price of those are pretty reasonable these days.

T420/s has the mSATA slot as well...along with the proper keyboard...

While I was doing my usual Saturday morning surfing around, I came across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXa0XzNvuZU

If you haven't already seen it, I'll just warn you that I almost spit out my coffee and choked at the same time!

Join the club!
Already mentioned here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=111311
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=111294
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=115009

What do you mean by Halo product?

Temetka wrote:What do you mean by Halo product?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

schen wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXa0XzNvuZU

"Halo product" or no, I ended up going with the X1 to replace the X301. Would have loved to have had an updated X301 instead, but that beast doesn't exist! One of the main reasons I went this way was that I was able to grab and absolutely "mint" one for $305! That was not a typo! So far, I'm enjoying the X1 and a colleague liked it so much, she asked me to find one for her.

Congrats to the X1! It's a fine machine, one of my favorite ThinkPads in fact.

SkiBunny wrote:

Temetka wrote:What do you mean by Halo product?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

schen wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXa0XzNvuZU

Gotcha. Thought I missed a technical term. The wiki was very helpful. Thanks.

schen wrote:The late 60's Omega Constellation, the '88 BMW M5, Nikon D300 and ThinkPad 701C. And the X301 (and the X300 before it) fits right in there.

You have fabulous taste, Sir! I had an E34 M5 and know the E28 fairly well... incredible machines the likes of which simply are not made today... modern things are of course more capable in every quantifiable way, but completely missing the Soul.

I have no idea what I'd replace my X301 and W500 with when software renders them too obsolete to Daily Drive... this is already starting for both machines on some YouTube videos (notably Petrolicious, which is worth checking out), but luckily my Work requires very little horsepower. I have been sort of keeping my eyes open for a good deal on a X201s but realize that it will be a clear step down in quality from the X301.

It's nuts that there is no laptop I know of today that I'd want to buy new for any sum of money... I hate 16:9 screens and chiclet keyboards... what Lenovo's done with the soft clicky touchpad on the xx40 models drives me crazy... I guess with a gun to my head I'd have to choose a maxed-out 2013 MacBook Air.

Technically speaking, the X201/X201s (with i5 CPU) is more advanced than the X301 (with Core 2 Duo CPU).
The difficult part with the X20x is finding a 1440x900 screen.
These have no webcam, but a complete lid with this can be swapped between X200/s and X201/s.

He was rerferring to the X201s in terms of quality, which indeed is worse than the X301. But then of course it has more performance.

Always a tradeoff lately.

I am getting tired of this trend from laptop manufacturers. They keep saying they are trying to figure out what people want.

Here's a thought: Listen to your die hard customers. The ones who tell the friends / family / co-workers / what machines to buy. Most likely they work in a tech field. Build the machine they are telling you to build. If Lenovo would put out a T410 like machine with a 16:10 LCD, mSATA, current gen Intel CPU, it would sell like hotcakes. But nope. They listen go God knows what and we end up with plasticy junk.

Holds T410 tightly. It's OK baby, I won't let the bad man hurt you.

IMHO, the T420s/T430s is more designed for a power user who might want to travel
occasionally. You can buy a mini-dock plus series 3 for it off ebay fairly inexpensively.

Here's a link to one of several different models that they made:

http://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-74447

If you get nvidia graphics, you have more options as to external displays.

I don't think that the X1 can do anything like this.