T400 Thermal Paste Replacement

[Altemose]

Hello. I am relatively new here but have always been a huge fan of the ThinkPad line. I just ended up getting a T400 for free and as a result need to do some work on it. The fan is making some noise and it is running hot right at the heatsink area. I am going to try fresh thermal paste since this did come from a refurbisher at one point. This model does have the switchable graphics and when I look at the Lenovo manual it describes removing a rubber patch. Is this a thermal pad or simply a protective cover to which I would add thermal paste to? I want to get this up and running as an upgrade from my T60. Another question, will the less worn out keyboard from my T60 (14" 1400x1050 display) work on this T400? Thank you in advance!

[precip9]

The patch is a thermal gel. It applies as one piece, and is torn when the heatsink is removed. The gel patches are available on eBay, but I have not used them. I simply used one of the thicker, lower performance pastes that are commonly available. I have made this substitution with five laptops so far. The temperatures are all fine, but I am watching them. Over time, it is possible that the substitution of paste for gel is less durable.

As for the paste on the CPU itself, many people use silver, but I avoid it. Although silver provides the ultimate in thermal performance, it is notorious for electromigration, moving under the effect of small electric fields, as between pins and pads on a circuit board. Any contamination could cause later failure, due to bridging of conductors invisible to the naked eye. The T400/T500 laptops are among the cooler running Thinkpads anyway. I've obtained unusually cool temperatures, simply by using a high-performance, but safe, ceramic paste on the CPU.

[Altemose]

The patch is a thermal gel. It applies as one piece, and is torn when the heatsink is removed. The gel patches are available on eBay, but I have not used them. I simply used one of the thicker, lower performance pastes that are commonly available. I have made this substitution with five laptops so far. The temperatures are all fine, but I am watching them. Over time, it is possible that the substitution of paste for gel is less durable.

As for the paste on the CPU itself, many people use silver, but I avoid it. Although silver provides the ultimate in thermal performance, it is notorious for electromigration, moving under the effect of small electric fields, as between pins and pads on a circuit board. Any contamination could cause later failure, due to bridging of conductors invisible to the naked eye. The T400/T500 laptops are among the cooler running Thinkpads anyway. I've obtained unusually cool temperatures, simply by using a high-performance, but safe, ceramic paste on the CPU.

Would using Ceramique 2 all around be alright then? That is my paste of choice due to thicker application. I replaced a pad on my PowerBook G4 with Ceramique 2 without issue but these newer ThinkPads (than my T60 at least) are all new to me.

[precip9]

Since it is one of the cooler laptops, any paste will work on the CPU. I am unfamiliar with Ceramique 2, so I don't know whether it's thick enough for the GPU. I used pasty stuff packed with some cheap heatsinks.

But as long as it's not some super high performance stuff that is designed to go on super thin, it should work at least initially. You should monitor it with something like http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html to watch, in case it creeps out and leaves the joint dry.

[Altemose]

Since it is one of the cooler laptops, any paste will work on the CPU. I am unfamiliar with Ceramique 2, so I don't know whether it's thick enough for the GPU. I used pasty stuff packed with some cheap heatsinks.

But as long as it's not some super high performance stuff that is designed to go on super thin, it should work at least initially. You should monitor it with something like http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html to watch, in case it creeps out and leaves the joint dry.

It is a very thick style paste. Is there a way to simply remove the fan assembly that is making noise without removing the heatsink (and subsequently the gel and thermal paste)?

[precip9]

Having not actually removed the fan from the heatsink assembly, this is what I remember: The fan is secured by aluminum tape, which is not hard to source at a hardware store. Removing that tape, and the fan, if possible at all with the heatsink in place, converts a task requiring normal dexterity into one of microsurgical genius.

Pull the heatsink. There are assertions that the thermal paste creeps out over time, so this is an opportunity to renew it.

[Altemose]

Having not actually removed the fan from the heatsink assembly, this is what I remember: The fan is secured by aluminum tape, which is not hard to source at a hardware store. Removing that tape, and the fan, if possible at all with the heatsink in place, converts a task requiring normal dexterity into one of microsurgical genius.

Pull the heatsink. There are assertions that the thermal paste creeps out over time, so this is an opportunity to renew it.

Thank you for the guidance. I used to be all PC and went over to the Mac world. Now I am gonna give this T400 a shot as a daily driver instead of my MacBook Pro. Do you know if the keyboards are compatible?

[precip9]

A Mac keyboard could not be dropped into a T400, if that is what you mean.

[Altemose]

A Mac keyboard could not be dropped into a T400, if that is what you mean.

Sorry. I meant from my 14" T60.

[precip9]

I think it is.

[RealBlackStuff]

Remove the whole heatsink.
Trying to get only the fan out is near impossible.
Even if you did manage it, you'd still need to refresh the thermal paste...
Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 is fine, I've used it many times.
And the T60 KB will also fit in a T400/T500.

[Altemose]

Remove the whole heatsink.
Trying to get only the fan out is near impossible.
Even if you did manage it, you'd still need to refresh the thermal paste...
Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 is fine, I've used it many times.
And the T60 KB will also fit in a T400/T500.

Fantastic! The keyboard that is in it now is a bit mushy.

[Altemose]

Remove the whole heatsink.
Trying to get only the fan out is near impossible.
Even if you did manage it, you'd still need to refresh the thermal paste...
Arctic Silver Ceramique 2 is fine, I've used it many times.
And the T60 KB will also fit in a T400/T500.

Will the Ceramique 2 be fine for the GPU gel pad as described above or should I use a different paste for that?

[precip9]

Will the Ceramique 2 be fine for the GPU gel pad as described above or should I use a different paste for that?

I have not seen, on this forum or anywhere else, long term reports on the durability of the substitution, or informed comments on whether the Ceramique 2 will work long term. It will almost certainly work nearterm.

Here's a common sense argument. The older, lower performance heatsink compounds use a silicone grease base for the thermally conductive particles, originally alumina, then zinc oxide, colloidial silver, etc.
Then it was discovered that the thickness of the grease layer is itself a thermal impediment, so the grease was replaced by oil, which squeezes out thinner. For a precision aligned cooler attached to the CPU socket by 4 spring-loaded screws, this is a good innovation.

But the plate on the heatsink that contacts the GPU is not attached in such a positive manner. It relies on an overarching plate of springy stainless steel, which presses down on the parts of the heatsink contacting the GPU, and the system chip. This does not supply the same precision of contact. In transport, as the case flexes slightly, the whole heatsink assembly also slides slightly, squeezing out the compound.

The manufacturer's choice of gel pad for the GPU and system chip seems intended to provide a thicker, more compliant interface that can accept the flexing. I tried to mimic it with an older heat sink compound that forms a thicker layer. This might not prove durable, so I'm watching it. You can use Ceramique 2, but you should watch it too, using one of the temperature monitoring programs, such as HWMonitor.

[Altemose]

Will the Ceramique 2 be fine for the GPU gel pad as described above or should I use a different paste for that?

I have not seen, on this forum or anywhere else, long term reports on the durability of the substitution, or informed comments on whether the Ceramique 2 will work long term. It will almost certainly work nearterm.

Here's a common sense argument. The older, lower performance heatsink compounds use a silicone grease base for the thermally conductive particles, originally alumina, then zinc oxide, colloidial silver, etc.
Then it was discovered that the thickness of the grease layer is itself a thermal impediment, so the grease was replaced by oil, which squeezes out thinner. For a precision aligned cooler attached to the CPU socket by 4 spring-loaded screws, this is a good innovation.

But the plate on the heatsink that contacts the GPU is not attached in such a positive manner. It relies on an overarching plate of springy stainless steel, which presses down on the parts of the heatsink contacting the GPU, and the system chip. This does not supply the same precision of contact. In transport, as the case flexes slightly, the whole heatsink assembly also slides slightly, squeezing out the compound.

The manufacturer's choice of gel pad for the GPU and system chip seems intended to provide a thicker, more compliant interface that can accept the flexing. I tried to mimic it with an older heat sink compound that forms a thicker layer. This might not prove durable, so I'm watching it. You can use Ceramique 2, but you should watch it too, using one of the temperature monitoring programs, such as HWMonitor.

Thank you for the help. I will probably begin working on this machine tomorrow night.

[Altemose]

I ended up pulling it apart tonight and got all the paste replaced. I blasted the fan out but there was no dust and it still is ridiculously loud. It sounds as though something is rubbing in all honesty. Is there a way to oil the fan or is a full replacement necessary?

When running the dedicated GPU doing nothing but minor office work do you think the fan will even ever run? My T60 likes to have it on all the time but my MacBook Pro is dead silent.

[ReCreate]

I have a T400 with switchable graphics. I use TP Fan Control to manually switch up my fan to the maximum speed at all times, and even then the fan is almost not audible at all.

It sounds like something might be wrong with your fan. Possibly dust got in your bearings. If you live in the USA I would recommend checking eBay. I think you can find a replacement fan for $10 or less. Here is one that I found for you. http://www.ebay.com/itm/191036877660 $5 and free shipping.

Also, The T400 makes a lot of heat when you have the ATI GPU turned on. If all you are doing is videos and web and office work then I highly recommend switching to integrated graphics in the BIOS. This way the laptop will feel cold in your hands when its on for a long period of time. You will also get much better battery life.

[Altemose]

I have a T400 with switchable graphics. I use TP Fan Control to manually switch up my fan to the maximum speed at all times, and even then the fan is almost not audible at all.

It sounds like something might be wrong with your fan. Possibly dust got in your bearings. If you live in the USA I would recommend checking eBay. I think you can find a replacement fan for $10 or less. Here is one that I found for you. http://www.ebay.com/itm/191036877660 $5 and free shipping.

Also, The T400 makes a lot of heat when you have the ATI GPU turned on. If all you are doing is videos and web and office work then I highly recommend switching to integrated graphics in the BIOS. This way the laptop will feel cold in your hands when its on for a long period of time. You will also get much better battery life.

Well... what I ended up doing is taking it apart again tonight. I removed the fan and cleaned it out by using a Q-Tip to repeatedly drop 91% isopropyl alcohol into the fan where the spindle goes in. There was a large amount of gunk that drained out of the bottom and by repeatedly inserting and removing the fan and revving it by hand in between. After about 45 minutes of this process, it was all clean and the grinding was gone. I then took two small drops of mineral oil (the kind you can get at the drug store) and revved the fan again. It was dead silent. One however must be careful when replacing the fan into the heatsink body as it may rub if not properly seated. Note: do not use something like 3 in 1 oil or WD-40 on this. After the extra additives wear out in 2 weeks to a month, there will be almost nothing left to lubricate the bearings and you will have more problems than you started with.

I redid the thermal paste again and torqued down the heatsink and this ThinkPad is dead silent. Even on discrete graphics only and set to BIOS mode for fan control it is extremely cool and quiet. I did not replace the existing GPU pad as it was in good condition. I swapped in the keyboard from my T60 and have been using this machine non-stop since. I am extremely happy that I have this perfectly functioning machine for $0.10 worth of mineral oil and isopropyl alcohol.

[precip9]

The one mistake is the drugstore oil. What I've seen at the drugstore is vegetable based, with an emphasis on nontoxicity. The bearings really require a high grade industrial lubricant specialized to the purpose.

[ReCreate]

Yeah. The best oil you can easily get would be WD40 I think.

[emeraldgirl08]

I've heard Singers sewing machine oil works well also. Have not personally tried it but have seen it suggested on various threads.

[RealBlackStuff]

Do NOT use WD40 EVER in a laptop!
It'll stink to begin with, and worse: stops working after 2-3 weeks max!

[ReCreate]

Do NOT use WD40 EVER in a laptop!
It'll stink to begin with, and worse: stops working after 2-3 weeks max!

I used WD40 in fans before and I did not have problems. YMMV

[Altemose]

I am not sure if the oil I used is vegetable based but I am curious to go check now. The fan has been perfect and in reality, if the fan dies I will end up buying another one. This was kind of a last ditch effort as the fan was starting to seize and couldn't spin at start up. I do not know what the previous owner was doing but the amount of grime that came from the fan was astonishing as the rest of the system was so clean!

That being said, I did not use WD-40 due to the fact that the additives do not stick around too long. Once that happens, unless you packed it with oil, there isn't all that much there between the bearings and the axle.