Thinkpads Forum

I'd like to upgrade the wireless card in a T400 I just purchased. The machine model and type is 7417-CTO. The card in it is b/g, and I'd like to upgrade to something with n capability for the extra speed. Can anyone recommend one that's worked well for them in a T400 or similar machine? Will any mini-pci express card work?

You need a BIOS with whitelist removed:
https://www.bios-mods.com/forum/Thread- ... 3#pid70093
Any mini-PCIe will work, such as Intel 6200N, 6205N, 6300N and even the newest 802.11AC cards.

Thanks, this is helpful. Are there cards that are known to work without the bios mod?

Get the HMM (see the Drivers & HMMs link at the top of this page).
They are listed in there.

Thank you. I appreciate your help.

If you don't want to flash the BIOS, I think the Intel 5300 is your only real option. It is 100% identical to the Intel 6300 in performance, so no worries there about not having the newer card. Just make sure it is a Lenovo card!

If you do flash the BIOS, you could get an Intel 7260AC as it is technically the most advanced and fastest mini-pcie wireless card there is and ever will be. However, if you do not have a wireless AC router and don't plan on it any time soon, I highly recommend you don't go with that wireless card because with wireless-N, performance is lower than cards two generations older than it. Many people, including myself, have other issues with the 7260AC, possibly driver related. Broadcom and Atheros wireless AC cards don't seem to have any of the issues of the Intel card, but they are not offered in mini-pcie. If you don't want the 7260AC, the best card you can put into your laptop is the Atheros AR9380. Performance in 2.4Ghz is the same as the Intel 5300 or 6300, but 5Ghz performance is much better. These cards can be found very cheaply. They are most common as Apple Airport Extreme cards or as Killer Wireless 1103 cards. Just search for AR9380 on Ebay.

Qing Dao wrote:If you don't want to flash the BIOS, I think the Intel 5300 is your only real option. It is 100% identical to the Intel 6300 in performance, so no worries there about not having the newer card. Just make sure it is a Lenovo card!

If you do flash the BIOS, you could get an Intel 7260AC as it is technically the most advanced and fastest mini-pcie wireless card there is and ever will be.

The 7260AC is a 2T2R card. (two transmitters, two receivers = 2 way diversity.)
The 5300 is 3T3R (3 transmitters, 3 receivers = 3 way diversity.)

So I don't think the 7260AC "ever will be" the best. Eventually, there will be 3x3 AC cards.

In public wifi, where AC has not yet appeared, the 3X3 5300 should offer better performance. If your primary use is with an AC router, then the 2X2 AC card offers better performance.

While I can't comment on the performance of the Atheros at 5ghZ, I am highly satisfied with the 5300 at 5. At home, it is used with an Asus RT-AC66u router, at 5Ghz, in N mode. The throughput is about the maximum for a reflective, real-world environment, 150-200 mb/s when in the same room as the router.

Thanks for the great info, everyone. This is exactly what I need. Sounds like the 5300 card is what I should get. Thanks again -- this is such a great forum.

precip9 wrote:The 7260AC is a 2T2R card. (two transmitters, two receivers = 2 way diversity.)
The 5300 is 3T3R (3 transmitters, 3 receivers = 3 way diversity.)

So I don't think the 7260AC "ever will be" the best. Eventually, there will be 3x3 AC cards.

You are forgetting something. The mini-pcie form factor has already been abandoned in favor of the M.2 form factor. Intel doesn't make a mini-pcie version of their newest 7265AC, and there is no Atheros or Broadcom wireless AC card that I can find that comes in mini-pcie. The Intel 7260AC is the end of the line. It shouldn't be too long before the 3x3 AC cards come out. Atheros and Broadcom already list those chipsets on their websites. Intel makes their own stuff and is hush-hush about any new wireless card release, but theirs will probably be out next year.

precip9 wrote:While I can't comment on the performance of the Atheros at 5ghZ, I am highly satisfied with the 5300 at 5. At home, it is used with an Asus RT-AC66u router, at 5Ghz, in N mode. The throughput is about the maximum for a reflective, real-world environment, 150-200 mb/s when in the same room as the router.

What I said wasn't to mean that the 5300 or 6300 isn't usable at 5Ghz. It can work perfectly fine. The problem is that the Intel 5300 and 6300 performance drops sharply with range and obstructions. Many people incorrectly attributed it to inherent problems with the 5Ghz band. As we can see with different wireless cards, that just wasn't the case. The AR9380 doesn't have greater peak throughput than the 5300 or 6300, but it works at much greater distances and through more obstacles. Intel eventually fixed the 5Ghz performance issues and it currently narrows the 5Ghz performance gap with Atheros. People switching to Atheros and to Intel's 7260 series report much improved 5Ghz performance. There have also been tests done on it. Look here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/kil ... 164-5.html (The Atheros-Qualcomm Killer 1103 is a rebranded AR9380 device).

Qing,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Since the Toms results are old, and the drivers have been updated several times since, I've just conducted a test of my own. Setup:

Two Asus RT-AC66u, separated by 3-4 layers of drywall, and other obstacles. One router is about 10 feet away on the floor below, with an intervening wood plank floor, and antennas not arranged for this transfer. The other is about 30 feet away, with optimally arranged antennas. Power on both routers is set to maximum. Only the 5GHz radios are turned on. Both access points were operational, and I have not checked which one was used. But at least, this was a real world test.

The external walls of the house are aluminum siding, which creates a difficult, reflective wifi environment.

Laptop: W500, W7, Intel 5300, 3 antennas in the lid.

The file material was two Sony Xperia backup files, totalling 1.29GB. Two trials were conducted. The first took 115 seconds. I then moved the laptop 6 inches to the right, and my body 1 foot to the left. This resulted in a time of 77 seconds.

Normalized to 2GB, these times are equivalent to 178 and 119 seconds respectively. Although the test conditions are not controlled, this is very competitive with the results of the better cards in the Toms review.

If one puts a 2X2 card in a coffee shop with GOOD wifi, such as that currently provided here by Google, I suggest that the new Intel card may offer less speed than the old 5300. If the coffee shop has bad wifi, such as currently provided around here by AT&T, no difference could be seen, because the bandwidth of the venue can be very low. But in no case, at least here in the U.S., is bandwidth in a coffee shop likely to be high enough for AC to benefit.

If one uses the machine mostly at home with an AC router, then the Intel 2X2 card is the superior choice. So I suggest that the user should still consider how the card will be used before making the choice.

There are many things to consider in such an equation...chipset of one's wireless router being the routinely overlooked one.

Personally, I have always had the best results with Atheros 938* cards BUT my router also sports an Atheros chipset. 5Ghz at 450Mbps pretty much all over our fairly large house.

AC is still in diapers IMO, and it will take at least another year before it becomes really usable.

Personally, I'm waiting to see what exactly - and in which form factor - Atheros brings to the table there.

My $0.02 only...

Qing Dao wrote:

precip9 wrote:The 7260AC is a 2T2R card. (two transmitters, two receivers = 2 way diversity.)
The 5300 is 3T3R (3 transmitters, 3 receivers = 3 way diversity.)

So I don't think the 7260AC "ever will be" the best. Eventually, there will be 3x3 AC cards.

You are forgetting something. The mini-pcie form factor has already been abandoned in favor of the M.2 form factor. Intel doesn't make a mini-pcie version of their newest 7265AC, and there is no Atheros or Broadcom wireless AC card that I can find that comes in mini-pcie. The Intel 7260AC is the end of the line.

For a pci-e 3X3 card, see http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compex-WLE900VX ... 19f0255623

precip9 wrote: For a pci-e 3X3 card, see http://www.ebay.com/itm/Compex-WLE900VX ... 19f0255623

My hero!!!

Edit: I just found it for about $18 shipped here in China. It is an enterprise wireless card and only has Linux drivers though.

Ahh, like Lazarus this dead thread is resurrected.

Real quick, does anyone know off the top of their head whether there is an extra antenna in the T400's to accommodate a 3x3 card if the 2x2 5100 was originally installed or would you have to put a new one in yourself? If you have to put it in yourself, can it run anywhere or is there a preferred/correct method of running an antenna when upgrading your WiFi to one that takes an additional one?

From what I've read, you don't need the 3rd antenna.
The 3x3 performance isn't reliant on the 3rd antenna.

I join ajkula66 with a recommendation for the Atheros AR9380.

I just had a battle with my X200s which has this AR9380. See http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=120700
I needed that card for another machine, so then I tried Intel 5350, Intel 6200N and 6300N in my X200s.
NONE of them worked!
Put the AR9380 back in, everything OK again!

All the T500 I've seen have three antennas but apparently some T400 may may have just two. The consensus from this thread (T400 Upgrade Wireless http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=114610) indicate that, like what jaspen-meyer said, the 3rd antenna isn't needed. "Ignore the middle post" they say.

Most of the Atheros AR9380 I'm seeing say Apple on them, is there anything proprietary on them that would prevent them from being used even on a whitelist unchecked bios computer?

As long as you have a whitelist-removed BIOS, any 2-antenna AR9280/3-antenna AR9380 will work fine, even an Apple one.
The middle connector on AR9380 is not needed if you only have 2 antenna wires, you still get full speed (up to 450Mbps).

Excellent! Thanks!

How does the heat output for a 9280 compare to an Intel 6205? How about the 9380 vs the 6205?

$80 for a card. Wow. There is another card that escapes me right now that is about $40-$50 and is ac1750 with 3x3 but it uses a new antenna type... not the hirose whatever we've been using since dot.

For me, the Intel 5300/6300 is close enough. Although I have an ac1750 router, I dont like the 2x2 7260 and besides, the 6300 is like $10? 5300 well under.

For what I get, 450 3x3, that's sufficient.

TonyJZX wrote:$80 for a card. Wow.

What card is that?

I dont like the 2x2 7260

Same here. I was utterly unimpressed by it.