Thinkpads Forum

Hi all,

After a friend of mine bricked my T420, I was able to have the laptop's motherboard replaced, and while this seems to have addressed the hardware-related issues, I can't seem to get Windows 7 to remain stable on the system. (I've run a variety of hardware-checking applications, and the systems seems fine, so I can only guess this is a software issue, and since it's a clean Windows install every time, I'm guessing it's part of the Windows installation process.)

I've tried reinstalling it a few times, and each time the system remains stable until Windows finishes installing all updates -- at which point the system starts intermittently BSOD'ing. The longer I run an install of Win7 on the machine, the more frequent the BSOD's occur.

Question 1: Do you think this is occurring because my copy of Windows 7 is an OEM copy, and so is tied to the original motherboard? (The replacement part is the same make/model of mobo, but I'm guessing this might not be enough.)

Question 2: If it's not a Windows+mobo conflict, what do you think it might be? ThinkVantage drivers, maybe? Some other pre-installed driver or application? (I'm using the installation discs that came with the machine, i.e. Lenovo discs.)

Question 3: If it IS a Windows+mobo conflict, what do you recommend I do? Is there some way I can still use the discs on the machine? I'd like to run Win7 on the T420, but I'm also open to running other OS instead (e.g. Ubuntu). What do you recommend?

Thanks in advance for your help!

When you mention that windows is stable until installing all the updates, this is probably the problem. If you install all the updates in one go, problems may arise. Driver issues can cause BSODs, but since it happens only after the updates, it is not as likely, although you can try installing older/newer drivers.

It's probably a driver issue.

Try NOT using the ones from Windows Update and only use the ones from TVU. See if that helps any.

Thanks for the replies!

When you mention that windows is stable until installing all the updates, this is probably the problem. If you install all the updates in one go, problems may arise. Driver issues can cause BSODs, but since it happens only after the updates, it is not as likely, although you can try installing older/newer drivers.

brchan, are you saying that you do think it's a driver issue? I feel like that's what your first two sentences are saying, but then the final sentence seems to contradict this (i.e. "Driver issues can cause BSOD's, but... it is not as likely...").

It's probably a driver issue.

Try NOT using the ones from Windows Update and only use the ones from TVU. See if that helps any.

Temetka, any advice on how to do what you recommend? i.e. am I meant to somehow stop Windows from auto-updating?

tsivist wrote:i.e. am I meant to somehow stop Windows from auto-updating?

I'm not Temetka, but I would most definitely suggest turning the auto-updates off, and choosing what you really need by yourself...

Thanks for the suggestion. Honest question: why?

tsivist wrote: Honest question: why?

Because many a times Windows thinks it knows what's best for your PC and it's simply not the case.

Not to mention that there might be software on one's PC that the update or two doesn't play nice with. I've been saying this to anyone willing to listen for more than a decade.

Because many a times Windows thinks it knows what's best for your PC and it's simply not the case.

Fair enough. My concern, though, is the implication that I know better than Windows.

Not to mention that there might be software on one's PC that the update or two doesn't play nice with.

Makes sense. Thanks again for the advice.

tsivist wrote:

Because many a times Windows thinks it knows what's best for your PC and it's simply not the case.

Fair enough. My concern, though, is the implication that I know better than Windows.

Well, to begin with: never and I mean NEVER install any hardware-related updates from WU. That's a good start. As you move along you'll get an idea of what you need or not...

When installing fresh, I install W7 from the disks, once installed, do not set Win updates to auto. Then run Thinkvantage System Update and download and install all. Once those are installed, run TSU again, and again, until it tells you all is updated. Then turn on Windows Update and let it go. This has worked every time for me on numerous thinkpads.

And.. what ajkula66 said "Well, to begin with: never and I mean NEVER install any hardware-related updates from WU."

You mentioned you ran a variety of hardware-checking applications. What exactly did you run, and what did you test? To me, this issue seems hardware related. The device drivers on Windows Update aren't exactly wonderful, but they should be decent enough to not cause constant blue screens. Though I've never owned or worked on a T420, so I can't be sure.

There have been some botched Windows Updates released from Microsoft within the last year, maybe you're having problems with a recent one. Installing a big load of updates all at once (more than 100 for example) doesn't cause issues, otherwise Microsoft probably would make it not possible.

There's a couple of programmes you can download to find out what exactly caused a blue screen. WhoCrashed is a good one, and the home edition is free.

As a memory test engineer, and since nobody else has directly mentioned this, I'd recommended running a memory diagnostic program like memtest86+. It's the FIRST thing I do when I get a new system.

Yes, I was going to recommend Memtest86+. Whenever I get a new (to me) computer (or replace a motherboard), I always test the RAM and hard drive.

Failing hard drives generally don't cause oddball issues like this, but faulty SSDs can.

Thanks for the recommendation -- I ran a full pass of Memtest86+, booted from a USB stick, and it threw 186 errors. You can view the results here: http://i.imgur.com/G0BPJ58.jpg

So, I'm guessing the next step is to check and make sure my RAM timings are correct? Memtest86+ is listing 9-9-9-24. Not sure if those are the correct timings, or the ones I've got it set to in BIOS, or what. Any advice on how to check to make sure my RAM timings are correct? I'm a bit of a n00b here, so any (detailed) help would be appreciated. Not sure if the machine is running stock RAM or not; I got the system used.

MrMaguire: I've got a Crucial SSD in there that I installed myself. I'm happy to do some testing on that, after I've worked out this RAM issue. I did test it a while back using Crucial's tools, and it passed, but maybe some new issue has cropped up.

tsivist wrote:Thanks for the recommendation -- I ran a full pass of Memtest86+, booted from a USB stick, and it threw 186 errors. You can view the results here: http://i.imgur.com/G0BPJ58.jpg

So, I'm guessing the next step is to check and make sure my RAM timings are correct?

It looks like you have two memory sticks of 4GB each. The 'red' errors with Memtest86+ show that one of the two is bad and randomly causing various things to fail when running the system.

The next step is to run Memtest86+ again with only one memory stick installed .... if that passes or fails, then run Memtest86+ again on the other memory stick (using the same memory slot as the first test). If one stick fails and the other doesn't, then you know which one is bad and need to buy a new stick. If neither fail, then you need to repeat both tests using the other memory slot. Worst case ... if both sticks fail in one slot and not the other, then you may have a motherboard with a bad memory slot.

Most probably, you have one bad memory stick.
Find which one it is and replace it.

What GACrabill said.

If you find that one memory stick is causing the errors, you can try cleaning the contacts with some isopropyl alcohol on a q-tip. Most of the time this won't make much of a difference, but if the computer is/was particularly dirty, bad connections can occur and cause problems.

I'm not sure what you'd use to test an SSD outside of the manufacturer-provided testing utility. I use HDAT2 to test hard drives, which can view SMART data and run read and verify tests to detect bad sectors and clusters. I suppose that might work. But at this point, I'm thinking that your SSD is probably OK.

Did this memory come with the new motherboard, or is it from the old water-damaged system?

Thanks all! I'll report back in a week or two, when I've had the chance to test everything thoroughly.

Meantime, any recommendations for RAM for the T420 would be greatly appreciated!

tsivist wrote:Thanks all! I'll report back in a week or two, when I've had the chance to test everything thoroughly.

Meantime, any recommendations for RAM for the T420 would be greatly appreciated!

If the bios on that board is stock (1.29 or older) as in it was never updated you can use DDR3 1600 or 1866 if you feel that you desire the extra speed. If you use one of those higher rated kits it might blue screen once it starts to boot into windows on the first try so get into safe mode then restart. The kits range from $50 to $100 depending on brand and the seller/retailer.

Done this on a X220, T420, and a T520.