Thinkpads Forum

I recently bought myself a used Latitude D830, but I realised that it was way too hot and loud for my taste. Now, I consider buying a refurbished T520, which is only about half as old and should be cooler and more silent.

I wonder, however, if it will have a soft keyboard like the D830. I liked the NMB keyboard on my T60 as well, but it was too stiff. It seems from this link - https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/documents/migr-76723 - that T520, like so many other ThinkPads, have three different keyboard manufacturers, but unfortunately, the table doesn't tell which FRU numbers correspond to which manufacturers.

So I have two questions:
[Answered. Thanks, RealBlackStuff!] 1) Does any of you still know which column corresponds to ALPS, NMB, and Chicony, respectively?
2) Which keyboard is the most soft, while still giving decent feedback and having good mechanical qualities? Is the NMB keyboard less stiff than on the T60 (or about the same level of stiffness/softness as on T400/T500)?

In the T410, T420, T510 and T520 HMMs the keyboard columns from L to R are: Alps/Chicony/NMB
They can all use the same keyboards.

Thank you. I see that all four ThinkPads share the FRU numbers, so anyone who has one of them might be able to answer my question 2.

"Soft" means different things to different people...

My guess - given what you've written about T6x NMB keyboard in your first post - is that an ALPS keyboard would likely be the best fit for you. Chicony has always been the hardest one out of all three, even going back to T4x generation.

My $0.02 only...

I would guess so as well, but this thread makes me a little skeptical about it. The ALPS keyboard is there described as mushy, a term which I cannot familiarize with very much, but I have seen somewhere the keyboard on Latitude D830 described as "[soft but] not mushy".

But if the difference in stiffness between the T60 NMB and the T410/.../520 NMB is not that big, and the Chicony is even more stiff (in the above link, it is described as very similar to the NMB), I gather I still should go with the ALPS.

Systematician wrote: The ALPS keyboard is there described as mushy, a term which I cannot familiarize with very much, but I have seen somewhere the keyboard on Latitude D830 described as "[soft but] not mushy".

Honestly, it's been may years since I've last touched a D830 so I wouldn't trust my recollection of its feel whatsoever. It must have been somewhat middle-of-the road since I usually recall horrible and wonderful keyboards - whether ThinkPad ones or not - quite well.

But if the difference in stiffness between the T60 NMB and the T410/.../520 NMB is not that big, and the Chicony is even more stiff (in the above link, it is described as very similar to the NMB), I gather I still should go with the ALPS.

I don't know how prices are in your neck of the woods, but around here you can pick up a brand new keyboard for $40 or less. Given that there's no real knowing what suits one the best, it may be money well spent...

My $0.02 only...

RealBlackStuff wrote:In the T410, T420, T510 and T520 HMMs the keyboard columns from L to R are: Alps/Chicony/NMB
They can all use the same keyboards.

This is actually not true. For T410 and T420, they have the same layout, but they are not interchangeable. I have both in hand and they are different part numbers and use different key springs. The T420 is not soft but has a springy response. The T420 has more reinforcements for the trackpoint hardware (4 additional screws) and overall the keys are noisier, harder to press. Flipping over the keyboard, you can visually tell the difference in hardware of every single key. If you are wondering what happens when you insert a T410 keyboard into a T420, most of the keys don't work. Mute works but doesn't light up. The power button works. Trackpoint works but left/right/mid buttons do not work. The letter keys don't work at all.

If you like a softer action, T410 is better from what I've got. It might work with a T400 but I don't have one to test it myself.

Personally, the softer key action is what I find most comfortable to type on. Sad that it didn't work with my T420...

@Sense:
sorry, but your post makes no sense (pun intended)!
Maybe you have a working Alps and a faulty Chicony, or something like that.
Each brand uses different domes and different scissor-like mechanisms.
But the same keyboards should work in all those models I mentioned.
Please give us the FRU and P/N of both keyboards you are talking about.

@RealBlackStuff

Not Working on T420:
FRU # 45N2141
Lenovo Part # 45N2106
Model # C9-89US

Working on T420:
FRU # 45N2211

Looking at the official lenovo pages, it does list it under both T420 and T410. So I stand corrected. I think you are right, the keyboard that is partially working might be faulty, not due to incompatibility. I made the initial conclusion based on a quick google search I did, which led me to amazon http://www.amazon.com/Original-IBM-Keyb ... B00CJ1ZH56 which pointed out that the keyboard is compatible with T400s T410s T410s T510 T510i W510. It made sense at the time since this keyboard wasn't working on my T420. But checking the original source from Lenovo part list (links provided below), turns out I made a mistake. Woops! Sorry about that, I must admit, I made no sense

Source:
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/produc ... s/PD000681 T410
https://support.lenovo.com/us/en/produc ... s/PD008469 T420

Conclusion:
I made no sense. I probably have a faulty keyboard. But I can tell you that *my 45N2141 does give a significantly softer feedback than 45N2211. Also, RealBlackStuff is legit!

It is mentioned in a Notebookcheck review on the T410 that the trackpoint buttons are a little noisy. That was also my experience when trying the ThinkPad Yoga 15, whose trackpoint buttons seem similar. At the same time, the same reviewer noted that the buttons weren't too noisy in her T510 review! The only possible explanation for this is that the noise of the buttons vary between the ALPS, Chicony, and the NMB keyboards (!).

As the trackpoint will be my only input method when I don't have a mouse with me, this is somewhat important.

RealBlackStuff wrote:In the T410, T420, T510 and T520 HMMs the keyboard columns from L to R are: Alps/Chicony/NMB
They can all use the same keyboards.

Doesn't the X220 use the same keyboard as those models as well?

Jason404 wrote:

RealBlackStuff wrote:In the T410, T420, T510 and T520 HMMs the keyboard columns from L to R are: Alps/Chicony/NMB
They can all use the same keyboards.

Doesn't the X220 use the same keyboard as those models as well?

Yes it does.

My theory seems to be confirmed: The NMB keyboard has loud trackpoint buttons, wheras the Chicony keyboard has silent ones - but loud keys. So, does anyone have experience with the feel and loudness of the trackpoint buttons of the ALPS keyboard?