Thinkpads Forum

Hello!

I'm using my T420 about 8 hours a day, and at the end of the day my right wrist hurts like hell. :[

Any ways i can help avoid that? I'm using the trackpoint with my middle finger and mainly the bottom buttons with my thumb (and middle mousse button with my index). My hand is quite angled and i guess this is the source of my pain.

I was thinking a wristband but i don't know if it will help the situation.

What do you think?
Thanks.
JPBD

Get a mouse.

set sensitivity and speed to maximum, so that it requires less force to operate
try new trackpoint caps, like soft rim.

try to alternate between touchpad and trackpoint, surely not all your tasks require trackpoint.

RealBlackStuff wrote:Get a mouse.

Good idea but sometimes i work only on my laps (like on a chair) or on a sofa (students club, little to no desks available) which is overall terrible. I could use in class but it's a little annoying versus the silent keyboard/trackpad buttons.

This is why i am really focussing on the trackpoint. I'd like to be able to move it elsewhere than the middle (a little to the left :p )

hhhd1 wrote:set sensitivity and speed to maximum, so that it requires less force to operate
try new trackpoint caps, like soft rim.

try to alternate between touchpad and trackpoint, surely not all your tasks require trackpoint.

I currently have a good mouse speed which isn't too fast because i usually have to move stuff arround in GUI tools/programs and i currently have the soft rim trackpoint (the best imo).

and i don't really like touchpads overall, they feel odd and weird imo.

Still trying to focus on wrist's healthy ergonomics and good behaviors to adopt :p

Change you habits. I get hand cramps from touchpads and sometimes from the nipple. So I try to use it as bare minimum.

I bring a mouse with me everywhere. If I cant find a place to use the mouse, I dont use the laptop, its pretty simple.

I'm an onsite engineer so I'm in server rooms with routers and the like and even in cases like that, I will use a mouse even if the laptop is on some Cisco boxes so I dont get hand cramps.

I have one of this model for using a desktop system with no desk.

What's the model number? Brand? Is it wireless?

Thanks.

http://store.ergoguys.com/pctrac-trackball.html

Same place from where I bought mine.

Quardah wrote:Hello!

I'm using my T420 about 8 hours a day, and at the end of the day my right wrist hurts like hell. :

You're doing something wrong, then...

My hand is quite angled and i guess this is the source of my pain.

I'd venture the very same guess...

I was thinking a wristband but i don't know if it will help the situation.

Most likely not.

What do you think?

You'll either have to learn to re-position your hands, or start using a mouse.

and middle mousse button with my index

I think that this is the cause of your problem

The Trackpoint is designed to be operated by either index finger, and the buttons by the thumbs.
Proper wrist angle is important too. If the laptop is too high (armpit-level) or too low (below lap-level), you're bound to have issues.

Good answerings.

Wondering now if i could have any other input devices other than a mouse because i will rarely have the required flat space to use one.

I really like the trackball idea but i am unsure if i should chip in about 80$CAD (very low at the moment) to try it out. Maybe it's not really gonna fit me. I love the trackpoint really, it's really pleasant to use and the force-to-speed ratio really feels natural.

If you have any other input devices idea i'd be willing to read them or else i think my best bet is to find an easy to carry small trackball.

Maybe try a different posture? I use my index finger on the trackpoint and leave the buttons for my thumb. Other fingers get used just for typing.

TPFanatic wrote: I use my index finger on the trackpoint and leave the buttons for my thumb. Other fingers get used just for typing.

Pretty much my own setup.

TPFanatic wrote:Maybe try a different posture? I use my index finger on the trackpoint and leave the buttons for my thumb. Other fingers get used just for typing.

Yea i have to say i took a wrong habit by starting to use the trackpoint with my middle finger. I have to tell you it really feels right when you have both sets of mouse buttons on your ThinkPad, until it starts to hurt i guess.

On a side note i'd like to say the trackpoint makes the trackpad completly useless for me. I would litterally move the trackpoint in between the "P - [" set of keys and the mouse buttons under the right ALT - MENU - CTRL keyboard keys, and get rid of the trackpad. Sometimes i also slightly touch the trackpad and it randomly clicks somewhere on the screen. But you know, that's just my opinion.

Anyway, i believe i will try the logitech trackball sooner or later unless someone comes out with a better idea.

Thanks again for your input people.

Quardah wrote:On a side note i'd like to say the trackpoint makes the trackpad completly useless for me.

IMO, IBM only put the trackpad/touchpad to increase market penetration -- there is a sizable population of laptop users who absolutely hate the Trackpoint, so having a second pointing device will hopefully let them consider a Thinkpad instead of excluding it outright.

I would litterally move the trackpoint in between the "P - [" set of keys and the mouse buttons under the right ALT - MENU - CTRL keyboard keys, and get rid of the trackpad.

1. You can disable the trackpad in Control panel.
2. I don't know why you'd want to move the Trackpoint. It was expressly designed such that you only need to move your index finger and thumbs so you can touch-type and move the mouse pointer without moving the rest of your fingers from the "home row" of keys.

The trackball I have shown is a rather large device. They make much smaller and cheaper trackballs, but this one I have needed to be larger, smoother, and better built than a cheap $15 model for general computer use.

The key to avoiding repetitive strain injury is to periodically switch among different input interfaces: trackpoint, touchpad, external mouse, keyboard shortcuts, touchscreen, trackball, and voice. Among these, the first three are the most likely to cause repetitive strain injury, which is why I use keyboard shortcuts whenever possible, and my main computer now has a 27" 2560x1440 touchscreen monitor (the Acer in my signature). My primary laptop (the Sony Pro13) is also touchscreen. Your T420 lacks a touchscreen but when you are ready to upgrade, consider getting a touchscreen-equipped laptop. Windows 10 is especially great for keyboard shortcuts. I still haven't tried Cortana but that's one way to use voice commands.

+1 on getting a mouse.
I had switched to a Microsoft Ergonomical 6000 Natural mouse and my wrist does not hurt compared to using a standard USB mouse.
I started to 'crack' my wrists due to strain at work, we have a computer setup on top of workbenches, so its not much comfortable at all.
But now that I think of it, once I switched to that mouse, my right hand has been doing a lot better.

I think you have your laptop too close to you when it is on your lap.
I found it was uncomfortable for me to use an X130e as the keyboard/trackpoint is pushed forward, compared to the T420, it is set back in the normal position.

When I was using a Chromebook Pixel, I had bigtime wrist pain due to having to switch to a trackpad.
As nice as the laptop was, touchpad use was not fun at all!

Rarely will my hands strain when using a trackpoint, usually I have my wrists resting on the palmrest and I navigate with my middle finger and thumbs on buttons.
Plus for me it is easy to switch hands when using the trackpoint.

pianowizard wrote:The key to avoiding repetitive strain injury is to periodically switch among different input interfaces: trackpoint, touchpad, external mouse, keyboard shortcuts, touchscreen, trackball, and voice. Among these, the first three are the most likely to cause repetitive strain injury, which is why I use keyboard shortcuts whenever possible, and my main computer now has a 27" 2560x1440 touchscreen monitor (the Acer in my signature). My primary laptop (the Sony Pro13) is also touchscreen. Your T420 lacks a touchscreen but when you are ready to upgrade, consider getting a touchscreen-equipped laptop. Windows 10 is especially great for keyboard shortcuts. I still haven't tried Cortana but that's one way to use voice commands.

I use keyboard shortcuts everyday (running Linux, pretty much mandatory to know keyboard shortcuts at this point) yet some applications i really mouse dependant and that's what causes the most pain. I'd rather not have a touchscreen device, even if that would add a great input device, i don't like the idea of touching your screen. It gets messy and i wouldn't really be using my computer as a tablet (also i don't really think it's supported on Linux but really unsure).

Saucey wrote:+1 on getting a mouse.
I had switched to a Microsoft Ergonomical 6000 Natural mouse and my wrist does not hurt compared to using a standard USB mouse.
I started to 'crack' my wrists due to strain at work, we have a computer setup on top of workbenches, so its not much comfortable at all.
But now that I think of it, once I switched to that mouse, my right hand has been doing a lot better.

I think you have your laptop too close to you when it is on your lap.
I found it was uncomfortable for me to use an X130e as the keyboard/trackpoint is pushed forward, compared to the T420, it is set back in the normal position.

When I was using a Chromebook Pixel, I had bigtime wrist pain due to having to switch to a trackpad.
As nice as the laptop was, touchpad use was not fun at all!

Rarely will my hands strain when using a trackpoint, usually I have my wrists resting on the palmrest and I navigate with my middle finger and thumbs on buttons.
Plus for me it is easy to switch hands when using the trackpoint.

Well yea the laptop is close to me at all time. I have to work in small spaces like shared local and such. I don't have a desk to put the laptop on yet, and that's why mouse isn't really an option. I like the trackball idea doe. My main issue is that with 1600x900 screen resolution on 14.1', it gets too small when it's too far so i just can't figure out a good distance which isn't too far and too close u_u

axur-delmeria wrote:

Quardah wrote:On a side note i'd like to say the trackpoint makes the trackpad completly useless for me.

IMO, IBM only put the trackpad/touchpad to increase market penetration -- there is a sizable population of laptop users who absolutely hate the Trackpoint, so having a second pointing device will hopefully let them consider a Thinkpad instead of excluding it outright.

I would litterally move the trackpoint in between the "P - [" set of keys and the mouse buttons under the right ALT - MENU - CTRL keyboard keys, and get rid of the trackpad.

1. You can disable the trackpad in Control panel.
2. I don't know why you'd want to move the Trackpoint. It was expressly designed such that you only need to move your index finger and thumbs so you can touch-type and move the mouse pointer without moving the rest of your fingers from the "home row" of keys.

On my T420s, I disabled the trackpad in the BIOS. It's never accidentally enabled by the OS or by the Fn-F8 button combination.

Quardah wrote:I was thinking a wristband but i don't know if it will help the situation.

What do you think?

Yep, I had that happen too about 15 years ago when I was young. I thought that happened only to middle-aged ppl.
It's repetitive stress and/or carpal tunnel... painful and quite debilitating... I felt so OLD...lol

I tried 3 wrist support devices and one worked well... an expensive one, with strong wrist/forearm support. I recovered quickly and fully. And then resumed using the trackpoint, no problem.

Since those old days, the wireless laser mouse replaced the old balled-mouse, so you can conveniently & effectively use a laser mouse on any surface - even a small & rough surface like your chair side or leg. Between this or a good wrist band, wrist & hand discomfort is a thing of the past - even though now I *am* middle-aged (sigh).