Thinkpads Forum

I want to install XP Pro on an express card for the slot on the side. No special reason. Just to have XP on the T520.

Does the BIOS allow for booting from an express card?

Admin edit: Added PIC warning.

I assume you mean the SD card. In any case, AFAIK, the answer is "no". And Windows would not like the idea of being booted from removable media either.

No, I don't mean the SD card unless that is another name for it. I mean this Express Card:

That's an ExpressCard drive. Why would you call it "Smart Card"? Did you see "Smart" written anywhere on it?

Once again, AFAIK, no Thinkpad has the necessary option ROMs in the BIOS to allow booting from ExpressCard PCIe devices (which this one is), so the answer is probably still no. In the Amazon reviews all the folks that claimed that they use it for booting mentioned using Macbooks.

I remember when PCI-E SSDs were new (~2010?). If I remember correctly, the achilles heel is that they could not be used as a boot device. Whether that's changed or not, I don't know. And results from a quick Google search seem inconclusive. One thing you can do is buy one of those ultrabay caddies and just use a normal drive for your XP install. Or just buy the ExpressCard SSD and try it, and sell it if it doesn't work out. I would advise to remove the main drive when you install XP. That way the bootloaders don't get intermixed, and the two OSes can function completely without each other.

Thanks. I was not certain if I could boot from removable media.

IIRC Macbooks have a generic AHCI boot firmware, that's why they can boot from HDDs connected to Expresscard SATA controllers.

I suspect this Expresscard SSD either contains an actual SATA controller, or simply emulates one, allowing the Macbook's firmware to boot from it.

to "boot" does not mean have an OS installed on a card. if you set Bios options to other drives to boot like floppy, CD, DVD etc thats just to boot up so you can then install or check HDD for errors in safe mode etc. so 'boot' likely yes but run an installed OS from a non HDD no that is not how an OS is designed. now if you just want optional OS on same drive that is doable in partions on HDD through virtual OS like my Sons (IT guys) do on their PCs they have 4 dif OS to choose from on their laptops HDD and store shared data in another partition. its complicated and slows some processes but they can run like Win xp 32bit, win7 64bit, linix, etc without having dif PC for each. you also cant backup an entire HDD with say win xp 32 to an HDD in hot swap bay then try to run that in a dif laptop with say win7 64 installed. thats not compatible. OS are tied into bios of a single PC by serial number and entire build parameters making it near impossible to even swap a HDD from on laptop into an identical laptop model due to it having a dif serial number therefor not licensed for it. thats how anal PCs have been since inception. this is why I have ALL my data including downloaded/installed programs/apps stuck in a single folder then keep backups of that for all my computers to use in case any fail just reinstall required programs/apps on new HDD/PC and use that folder as base library for everything. that folder is way to large to fit on any card but another HDD as its well over 300gb ATM. my son has near 7tb so must used a raid server for his library (he like win10 cloud base for this ATM, til he sees what I tried to warn him about;^). I have multiple laptops as redundancy for WHEN they fail. so it all depends on what you plan to use your data for as some like audio/video hog GBs but text etc dont thats why my old IBM 701s cant browse the web like it once did even after modifying it to the max back then. todays Flash web pages hog lots of streaming band width that cant even flow on old dial up modems. but my 3gb HDD on it has 3 full sets of encyclopedias installed as a small part of data.

@n2ri: Please keep the discussion in this thread to the subject at hand; i.e., whether or not a computer can boot (implying an OS) from an ExpressCard.

rkawakami wrote:@n2ri: Please keep the discussion in this thread to the subject at hand; i.e., whether or not a computer can boot (implying an OS) from an ExpressCard.

Umm think thats what I was doing. remember 'Boot discs'? they didnt have an entire OS on them. yet that is what OP is saying. they want to install an OS on a card but said wanted to Boot. now either can be done with some mods but only for one specific PC if running that OS off of card. if you try to use that card in a dif PC it wont be activated for the reasons I posted above. just trying to help OP with what they are wanting to do.

It might work with a Silicon Image SiI3132 or SiI3531, if its memory chip is programmed with IBM PC BIOS Option ROM. I suspect not all SiI3#3# ExpressCards contain a memory chip, to cost-reduce due to low demand. Grab a IBM-fashion TEAC FD-05PUB (FRU 05K9283) and create a "F6 driver floppy".

@n2ri: You drifted way off topic (OT) by bringing up your backup strategy, your son's RAID server, having multiple laptops as redundancy, Flash web pages using up bandwidth, encyclopedias on your HDD. Nothing whatsoever to do with the initial query. Need I say more?

And yes I remember boot disks (I'm 59). Used to boot computers and semiconductor testers with a floppy disk and I'm talking 8" single-density, single-sided version (300KB or so). Booting a computer implies that you give it a command to access a particular sector from a disk drive and execute the instructions that are stored there. Generally speaking, that starts loading an OS. In some cases, it's just a single program (disk drive or memory diagnostic come to mind). Nowadays that boot "disk" can be a USB key, a FLASH memory card (SD or CF), or in the OP's case, an ExpressCard.

A quick google search gives this somewhat relevant result: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-X ... d-p/789895

In that particular case, the Expresscard SSD isn't being used as a boot drive, but the fact that it has problems getting detected on a cold boot on an X220T means that there's a fair chance that the T520 will behave the same way.

Regarding the boot issue itself, I do wonder if some bootloader trickery (installing GRUB on the HDD to chain-boot the Expresscard SSD) would work, but I've never had the opportunity to try it.

An alternative to installing GRUB on the internal drive would be to install it on a USB flash drive and try chaining to the Expresscard SSD. This way the internal drive is left intact.

The question is if it would actually work. Without an option ROM, there's no BIOS interface, so GRUB would have to talk to the SSD directly, and I really don't know if GRUB2 is capable of that.
This thread on the Arch Linux forums seems to indicate that it doesn't, but it's dated 2011 and I don't know if any breakthroughs have occurred since then.

I've booted Ubuntu and Hackintoshed OSX Snow Leopard on a 16gb Expresscard drive. The only issue is that it is a bit slow but I can boot an OS on it. I haven't tried Windows because 16gb is barely enough for even Xp and the bigger cards are expensive. It works on all my Expresscard slot equipped Thinkpads from the T60 on up.

That's interesting info. What ExpressCard drive are you using? Is it PCIe or USB?

Thanks for the further information. Very interesting.

I have managed to install Linux Mint on the Ultrabay 500 GB spinner and used Easy BCD to help with the boot order.

I don't have the express card yet and I may hold off on this until I can find out more about what I'm trying to do.

SInce you have a T520, why not get an mSATA SSD instead?

Linux Mint? What happened to Windows XP?

That's what was going on the express card. I may repartition the second drive and have to load it there along side Mint.

dr_st wrote:That's interesting info. What ExpressCard drive are you using? Is it PCIe or USB?

Lexar 16GB Expresscard SSD. It is seen as a USB drive by the BIOS and Windows 7 sees it as a removable drive which means it won't work as a Windows system disk. OSX and Linux are fine on it.

Interesting.

I was debating on picking up one of the 64GB cards from Amazon (same model the OP linked to) since my T410 doesn't have mSATA.

Or there is this which should work in my T410:

http://www.hwtools.net/CardReader/MR15.html

Not for booting, just adding some storage in the form of 2 128GB SD Cards.

For my express card slot I am thinking of getting a USB 3 card. While not true USB 3.0, it should be faster than the USB 2.0 ports my machine has now.

MisterB wrote:Lexar 16GB Expresscard SSD. It is seen as a USB drive by the BIOS and Windows 7 sees it as a removable drive which means it won't work as a Windows system disk. OSX and Linux are fine on it.

Not surprising then. USB-based ExpressCard devices go straight to one of the chipset ports, and are recognizable by the BIOS for the purpose of booting, just like any other USB flash drive. Performance is limited to USB2, of course.

Temetka wrote:For my express card slot I am thinking of getting a USB 3 card. While not true USB 3.0, it should be faster than the USB 2.0 ports my machine has now.

Why is it not true USB 3.0? It would be as true as if your T410 had a built-in USB 3.0 controller, since the controller would go through the same PCIe root. Yes, it would be somewhat limited by the PCIe 1.0 protocol, but in many cases, not so much.

dr_st wrote:

Temetka wrote:For my express card slot I am thinking of getting a USB 3 card. While not true USB 3.0, it should be faster than the USB 2.0 ports my machine has now.

Why is it not true USB 3.0? It would be as true as if your T410 had a built-in USB 3.0 controller, since the controller would go through the same PCIe root. Yes, it would be somewhat limited by the PCIe 1.0 protocol, but in many cases, not so much.

It wouldn't be "true" due to exactly what you mentioned. But it would still be far faster than the USB2 I am using now.

In that sense no USB 3.0 is "true USB 3.0", because AFAIK there isn't a single controller/device out there that can hit the theoretical 5Gbps bandwidth anyway.

never read why you want to boot from card drive. if its for testing thinkpads then just use an ultra bay HDD set to master on pins instead of slave. then with no internal HDD you can just plug and go with any Thinkpad with the bay