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Actually give yourself some credit, you're not as much a simpleton as you thing. BTW it's work loading Marshmallow on that TF Prime. My comments is below. Very envious of your wood working. I love wood working.

1) Get the TP-t420 this Friday/Leave installed 128gb SSD alone - If it's a simple Win 7 install then expect a long wait for Win 7 updates. Especially the first 3 times. RBS started a thread on how you can significantly shorten the waiting time to check and install updates (at least for the first series of updates).

2) Install msata 128gb as per HMM pgs 114-115 - Correct. Just to be safe and ensure you don't accidentally install Linux on the Win 7 HDD, I would pull the HDD SSD out. It's simple. Pop the HDD back in once Linux install to mSata is completed.

3) install 1tbHDD/7200rpm + 2nd HDD caddy into optical drive ultrabay. - For my data drive I've set up the filesystem so that both Windows and Linux can access the data. I have folders on there named Pictures, Documents, Music, Miscellaneous and others for that purpose. I do have some folders dedicated for Windows or Linux only but don't use these. For backup it's a simple copy to an external 1 TB USB HDD. I will also copy the backup external drive to a 2 TB HDD on my desktop. The allows me to access the T420's data from my desktop (without going through the network) while also providing a backup to the backup. I do this about once every month. My frequency of data change is not that high.

4) Leave WIN7 on original SSD
5) Linux distro loads to MSATA drive
6) Data storage etc. to HDD

I've been running this way for 8 months now and it's working great. At first it was a little awkward as I was getting used to Linux Mint. After 8 months, I can see myself leaving Windows and switching to Linux.

Getting an msata AND a 7200 rpm drive in the optical drive is inane.
It adds noise and weight and power consumption for zero gain.
Just get a 500gb msata drive. Install Linux on it and give it a FAT32 data partition.

Cigarguy wrote:Actually give yourself some credit, you're not as much a simpleton as you thing. BTW it's work loading Marshmallow on that TF Prime. My comments is below. Very envious of your wood working. I love wood working.

1) Get the TP-t420 this Friday/Leave installed 128gb SSD alone - If it's a simple Win 7 install then expect a long wait for Win 7 updates. Especially the first 3 times. RBS started a thread on how you can significantly shorten the waiting time to check and install updates (at least for the first series of updates).

2) Install msata 128gb as per HMM pgs 114-115 - Correct. Just to be safe and ensure you don't accidentally install Linux on the Win 7 HDD, I would pull the HDD SSD out. It's simple. Pop the HDD back in once Linux install to mSata is completed.

3) install 1tbHDD/7200rpm + 2nd HDD caddy into optical drive ultrabay. - For my data drive I've set up the filesystem so that both Windows and Linux can access the data. I have folders on there named Pictures, Documents, Music, Miscellaneous and others for that purpose. I do have some folders dedicated for Windows or Linux only but don't use these. For backup it's a simple copy to an external 1 TB USB HDD. I will also copy the backup external drive to a 2 TB HDD on my desktop. The allows me to access the T420's data from my desktop (without going through the network) while also providing a backup to the backup. I do this about once every month. My frequency of data change is not that high.

4) Leave WIN7 on original SSD
5) Linux distro loads to MSATA drive
6) Data storage etc. to HDD

I've been running this way for 8 months now and it's working great. At first it was a little awkward as I was getting used to Linux Mint. After 8 months, I can see myself leaving Windows and switching to Linux.

Regarding the TF prime...nice little machine, but lagging and quite beyond its usefulness now....but with a flash of Marshmallow????

I love, love, love Linux Mint. I defected from Windows about 10 years ago. Once I got a taste of having REAL control of my OS, it was game over for viruses and bloatware. This is the main reason for my questions here. I need the WIN7 for a couple of 3-d design programs I plan to use for virtually prototyping future furniture designs I have. Much faster than just sketching them and working out build processes on the fly. I am just beginning to research which programs to use. Looking for something powerful enough to do what I need it to, but simple enough to keep the learning curve down.

I am definately primed to enjoy the TP t420. I know the machine is not the thinnest, or the most asthetically attractive thing around, but [censored] if they arent built like tanks. It is the same approach I use to my machinery. The core machines in my shop are all pre 1950 Delta/Rockwell machines. They are all examples of how "they just dont build them like they used to". Dead flat, perfectly repeatable for production work, and insanely accurate for "nit-noid" woodworking. they just keep going and going. I will be passing them on to my kids.

That is kind of the thinking I have for this machine we are virtually building here. Rock solid chassis, good starter SSD for the main drive, and adding appropriate upgraded drives so as to get the most functionality and longevity out of it.

I had initially been attracted to the new Dell Chromebook because of my current state of assimilation into the Google collective...resistance has been futile....but I couldnt justify shelling out so much dough for a machine that just felt....lightweight?

plus, it did not accomodate the future implementation of design software that I want to use. So I started hunting thinkpads. When I ran across the deal I got on the t420, I figured that I would be able to tweak it to better "future-proof' it. Now, with your help, I think I have found a very workable, and modular (which i really like) configuration for the base machine.

A side question, what, if any, gyrations should I anticipate once the two new drives are phisically installed, in order to get them intigrated in the way you describe...i.e.....formatting the drive(s) are they both plug-play?

Will I be able to configure both OS's to see the HDD in the way you describe easilly? Any good hints you can give me in setting them up that way (WIN7 on the original SDD - Linux on the Msata - both delivering data for storage to the HDD)

I dont forsee any issue with loading Linux to the Msata, nor do I see any issues with booting from one drive or the other, but getting both OS's to see and use the HDD is what has me just a little concerned. I am just trying to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best here as this type of customization is indeed, a little beyond my normal wheelhouse.

I dont forsee any issue with loading Linux to the Msata, nor do I see any issues with booting from one drive or the other, but getting both OS's to see and use the HDD is what has me just a little concerned. I am just trying to prepare for the worst, and hope for the best here as this type of customization is indeed, a little beyond my normal wheelhouse.

The only real "gotcha" is that Windows might pop up a dialog box that asks you if you
want to format the msata drive (wiping out your Linux installation.) I don't know if there
is any way to prevent it from doing that, but I'm not much of a Windows Wiz.

The way that Cigar Guy is suggesting for you to set things up means that you have
a lot of options as far as data storage. For example, you could pop in a separate drive
in the Ultrabay when you want to run Windows as opposed to Linux. Hard drives are
cheap, e.g. there are a lot of 2.5" drives coming out of PS4s that you can pick up on
ebay for $30 or so.

If you follow this approach, you would format a data drive for Windows and another
for Linux (probably ext4).

Another approach would be to format a drive as NTFS and use it for both operating systems
using Linux utilities (I think the name of the package was "ntfs-progs" or something
like that.) Just make sure that you actually format the drive under Windows because
there are some file system attributes that the Linux utils can't access properly,
and you'll get weird behavior if you try to format the drive as NTFS under Linux.

Bittwiddler,

If im correct, I think what I want to set up is a configuration where the WIN7 stays on the drive it came on, Linux gets loaded on to the Msata, and the HDD is the repository for data to be saved.

My plan was to be operating primarilly from the linux drive, but periodically from the WIN7 drive when programs I want to use require it, and saved data going to the HDD in the ultrabay.

Are there any gotchas with this set up?

Is there a requirement to be swapping out HDD(s) whenever I switch between WIN7 and Linux OS(s)? Or can data simply be stored in the HDD regardless of which OS sent it there?

In reading Cigarguys posts, it feels as though I can operate from either OS and the HDD will play nice with storage from either OS. Is there some sort of special configuration of the HDD in order to be able to do this? I think you alluded to this when you were discussing NFTS and using it to format the drive but through WIN7 rather than Linux...Im a bit out of the loop here, so any help would be great. I would like to have all my conceptual ducks in a row before I go performing surgery to the new machine I have comming.

Is there a requirement to be swapping out HDD(s) whenever I switch between WIN7 and Linux OS(s)? Or can data simply be stored in the HDD regardless of which OS sent it there?

Just in case you're talking about conflicts during installation:

No, you only need to do that during installation to make sure that the boot loaded gets put on the correct disk.
I always make sure that the drive that I'm installing to is the ONLY disk in the machine.

After both operating systems are installed, you can select your boot device at boot time by hitting the blue
Thinkvantage key, and then hitting a function key (F12?) to select a temporary boot device.

The boot device has to be on your boot device list in the BIOS. Once you do that, you're good to go.

But, if you're talking about access to data on a drive in the ultrabay, then...

As far as access to your data goes... Windows uses a different file system (NTFS) than is common
in the Linux world. Probably if you format a partition in Windows with NTFS you'll be able to access
everything from Linux, but you need to install a package to do that. I'm a little fuzzy on the
name of the package, but on Mint, which is based on Debian or Ubuntu, it'll probably be called
something like "ntfs-utils," or "ntfs-progs."

edit: Now I see there is a new package called ntfs-3g, and you may already have it installed:

http://www.tuxera.com/community/open-source-ntfs-3g/

It's been quite a while now since I've done this because I run Linux almost 100% of the time now.
You'll have to dig around a bit to see if this does what you want.

When get your T420. Put the HDD into the ultrabay via an adapter. Do not install the mSata SSD yet. Leave the Win 7 SSD in the HDD slot. Update Win 7, load all the programs and configure everything until you heart is content. Format the HDD as NTFS and partition it any way you want. Windows won't play nice with Linux but Linux, especially modern distros, plays nice with Windows. Don't recommend formatting for FAT 32 as this will 1) limit partition size and 2) limit max file size to 4 GB.

Once Windows is installed, updated, and is working good. Turn off the machine. Pop out the SSD HDD. Taking out the SSD HDD is unnecessary but doing this physically will ensure you cannot screw up the Windows installation unless you drive over the SSD or flush it down the toilet.

Install the mSata drive. Using a USB drive with your favourite Linux distro, install Linux onto the mSata drive (google this if you don't know how to do it). Hit F12 on restart to select to boot from USB drive.

Mount the Linux distro to read/write the NTFS partition/drive. If using Linux Mint google "mounting linux mint to windows NTFS". The first 2 result will return you:

https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/1100
and
https://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/92

Configure Linux install to your heart's content.

When satisfied with Linux install. Turn machine off. Pop the Windows SSD back into the HDD slot. Restart the machine. Hit F1 to enter BIOS. Configure BIOS startup the way you want it. As I primarily uses Win 7, I set my BIOS startup order as 1) mSata - Win 7, 2) SSD HDD - linux mint 3) USB HDD and that's it. I remove or disabled the rest including boot from network, FDD,etc.

On power up, it picks up and load Win 7 by preference. For all intensive purposes my T420 thinks it's a Win 7 laptop. Never had an issue with MBR, don't bother with GRUB or have partition conflict. When I want to play around with Linux, I restart the T420, at restart hit F12, select SSD HDD as the boot drive and Linux Mint is loaded. For all intensive purposes my T420 becomes solely a Linux machine now. In either instances, the data on the HDD in the ultrabay can be read/write from either Linux or Win 7.

I have a HP Elitebook 4670p set up in a similar way. Switching from a T420 to the Elitebook means popping out the Ultrabay HDD (data drive) and physically transferring it to the Elitebook's ultrabay adapter. Takes about 2 minutes and I have an instant backup machine incase my T420 dies. I can also physically pop the data drive into anyone of my other laptops too or an external HDD caddy and use on my Surface Pro 3 or desktop. Of course this critical data drive is backed up in triplicate.

madcapwoodwright wrote:Are there any gotchas with this set up?

The one glaring gotcha is Win7. It doesn't fit in with your 'pre 1950 Delta/Rockwell machine' approach in which the machine does what it's supposed to, and is apt to damage the other machines in the workshop, namely coexisting OS's and bootloaders. One would tilt their head in wonder at the idea of a piranha and a goldfish living in the same fish bowl.

Have you looked for 3D software which'll run on Linux?

So the 1TB drive is being added because partitioning a 500GB msata drive is too complicated? I've been using linux for 17 years and wouldn't consider partitioning a drive as complicated.

madcapwoodwright wants a combo machine for this application.
Think Knapp, Felder, or Robland.

Bittwiddler,

Exactly right. Not sure where all the supposition from the previous.poster is comming from, but yes, I am looking for a "combo" machine. Pre 1950's philosophy and all.

Based on your help, and the help of cigarguy, it seems that I can apply this mode of thought quite easily and inexpensively.

jaspen-meyer wrote:

madcapwoodwright wrote:Are there any gotchas with this set up?

The one glaring gotcha is Win7. It doesn't fit in with your 'pre 1950 Delta/Rockwell machine' approach in which the machine does what it's supposed to, and is apt to damage the other machines in the workshop, namely coexisting OS's and bootloaders. One would tilt their head in wonder at the idea of a piranha and a goldfish living in the same fish bowl.

Have you looked for 3D software which'll run on Linux?

So the 1TB drive is being added because partitioning a 500GB msata drive is too complicated? I've been using linux for 17 years and wouldn't consider partitioning a drive as complicated.

Yes actually, I have looked for software that meets.my needs as Linux based. This was my first move actually. However, programs that are used in my industry are all based on Mac or Windows. Having WIN 7, as distasteful as it is to me, is the easiest way to get to where I want to be with a minimum of.brain damage, of so it would seem.

Having WIN 7, as distasteful as it is to me, is the easiest way to get to where I want to be with a minimum of.brain damage, of so it would seem.

You may consider running Windows under Virtualbox, which allows you to run multiple operating systems
at the same time under a Linux host. Just make sure to get Virtualbox 5, not 4. You might have to jump
through some hoops to do that with Linux Mint at the present time.

bit_twiddler wrote:

Having WIN 7, as distasteful as it is to me, is the easiest way to get to where I want to be with a minimum of.brain damage, of so it would seem.

You may consider running Windows under Virtualbox, which allows you to run multiple operating systems
at the same time under a Linux host. Just make sure to get Virtualbox 5, not 4. You might have to jump
through some hoops to do that with Linux Mint at the present time.

Mint is my favorite, but I'm open to other distros too. Just really comfortable with the umbutu/mint -esque platforms. Red Hat? Debian?

I like your 50s Rockwell philosophy madcapwoodwright. Love Rockwell commercial grade tools. The older machines were built like a tank.

I hear you about Windows. I'm slowly weening myself from Windows to Linux myself. I've tried lots of live distros the past year and have liked Mint best so far.

I'd stick with Mint or Ubuntu given what I know about your background.

Here's a link on how to install VirtualBox 5:

http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/how- ... erivatives

better link:

http://www.tecmint.com/install-virtualb ... os-fedora/

FWIW, I have VirtualBox 5 installed on my W520 which is running Linux Mint 17.3.

Edit: I just pulled up synaptic on my W520, and I noticed that multiple versions of VirtualBox (4.2, 4.3, 5.0)
are available in repositories. So, I'm not sure how I installed it. Before installing, you might want to
do some research to see what the situation is on the distribution that you're running.

BTW, if you are not familiar with synaptic, then you should install it, it's a package browser
on Debian/Ubuntu/LM.

Red Hat has really concentrated on the server market, and doesn't seem
to care much about the desktop these days.

Debian is really a developer's OS; you have to jump through hoops to get
many of the updates that you get out of the box with Ubuntu or Mint.

If you have time, I'd suggest waiting until Ubuntu 16.04 comes out later
this month. Otherwise, 14.04 should be just fine. A lot depends upon
what desktop you want to run. KDE is pretty solid on 14.04 but appears
to be fading as a spin from 16.04 onwards. I personally prefer MATE,
which is a fork of Gnome 2 (which I run on my workstations), and that
is officially an Ubuntu spin for the first time in 16.04, so I'm looking forward
to that.

Other Ubuntu spins you might consider are Lubuntu (LXDE-based) and
Xubuntu (XFCE based.)

I, personally, don't like the straight Ubuntu desktop, but that's probably
because I never got accustomed to it.

Thanks for the opinion on the latest state of some popular Linux distro bit_twiddler. Like you I did not like the Ubuntu desktop/interface when I tried it a while back. Might have to give it another shot. Was going to try Debain just for kicks but I'm in no big hurry now. Interesting about Red Hat, it's to bad.

Fortunately I got lots of 80 and 160 GB HDD that comes with used Thinkpads over the years. I've been loading a distro onto each of those and swapping it out in a T500 whenever I want to test a distro. It's easy enough to swap HDD. Besides having a use for these HDDs it gives me a long term feel for a particular distro that a live USB will not.

Mint Mate is growing on me. I'm thinking the comprehensiveness of the package and desktop interface. Any other distro recommendation along similar lines?

CigarGuy,

I'm running Mint Mate on my W520. So far, it has done everything that I've needed.
I probably push the edges a bit more in some areas than a typical user.

For a laptop, I'm looking forward to Ubuntu-Mate 16.04. It's supposed to be better... we'll see.
Like you, I keep an old Thinkpad (a T400) to do my test installs. My setup is similar to
yours except that my data disk is in the main bay, and my boot disk is the ultrabay.
So, once I've tested out a distribution it's a simple matter to switch over to it.

It also simplifies backing up drives; once I get a distribution of it, I make a copy of it
using dd on one of my workstations, and put it on a long-term backup. That way,
if I mess something up, I always have something to go back to.

There are probably a lot of other distributions and recipes to making Linux work on
a laptop, but Canonical seems to do the best job for me out of the box.

Thanks bit_twiddler. Apologize for the thread jack madcapwoodwright.

On the x61s I'm typing on there is one 250 gb ssd.
During installation I give 20 GB of ext4 to boot point '/' and click YES to format this partition.
And the rest of the disk is ext4 for '/home' and NOT NOT NOT formated.

If I want to switch distros or reinstall the system I do the exact same process - format 20 gb partition mount it as '/', that's the system, and use rest of the drive as ext4 and mount it as /home.

Use the same username and you'll have access to all of your files and folders in /home/YourUser

MOD Edit: unnecessary quote removed

I have used both the Lubuntu and the xubuntu as they felt mor light weight in terms of their demmands on system rquirements. i like them. (Along with puppy, Crunchbang etc.) I had a semi "hot rod" toshiba several years ago, but that got reappropriated by a home invader several years ago. I just havent had a need to replace the machine until now. Now that my Studio is nearly complete, and ready to re-open, I am finding that the smartphone/elderly tablet mode of computing just aint gonna cut it. Enter the t420. The plan is to build this machine with an eye to keeping it as relevent and functionally high performance for as long as possible. Linux distros are a wonderful, wonderful way of keeping otherwise solid but aging machines operational. The thought is, start with a "Rockwell" foundation, stuff as much "Ferarri" bits into into it as possible, run highly versatile Linux OS, Run whatever Win OS I HAVE to in order to play with CNC gear and perform design tasks in 3d etc. in the future,and pretty much "Bob's yer uncle"

Thanks again guys for all the input. Like I mentioned, I will be around picking brains as I am in the set up, configure, and actual "use" mode moving forward.

Looking forward to getting going on this particular build.

Based on what you've written, the operating system for you is Debian.
No question.

Best of luck with the T420.