Thinkpads Forum

Hello All,

I used to have an account here, years ago, when I bought my ThinkPad T400. I'm still using this laptop, but I have some questions. I think this topic could go in the Windows OS forum, but I think it belongs here, too (not to mention, this forum has more traffic). So here goes.

My T400 is as follows:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo T9400 @ 2.53 Ghz with 6MB L2 cache
GPU: ATI HD 3400 with 256 MB
RAM: 2GB
HDD: 160GB (SATA, I think)
OS: Windows Vista Business (32 bit) SP2
Battery: “33” 4 cell lithium ion 14.4v at 2.6 AH
Screen: 14.1”

I currently use the T400 for heavy web browsing (10+ tabs up at one time, browsing one website while a youtube video is playing (in SD resolution) in another tab, etc.); I'm also writing in MS Word while I'm doing my web browsing/research. I've started using Chrome since it seems to more efficiently use the RAM (Firefox is a RAM hog). I figure I can get another few years from this laptop given my use as long as I can get 8GB RAM. The CD/DVD drive seems to be broken.

Here's the problem. I have only a little cash and a 32 bit operating system. I'd love to just get a new laptop or buy a used one (like a refurbished W520 off eBay, but I don't have $350-$550 to pay for it). According to MS tech support, my only option to use 8GB RAM is to buy a 64 bit copy of Windows (7 or Vista) OR use the Lenovo Factory Backup Partition (or Boot Partition) to reinstall Vista, AS LONG AS that backup partition has the 64 bit version of Vista on it. The MS techie wasn't sure if the partition had the 64 bit version on it.

So, my questions are:

1. If I had 8GB of RAM in my laptop, is it realistic to expect another 2 years of use from a hardware obsolescence standpoint?

2. Does the Lenovo Factory Backup Partition have a 64 bit version of Vista on it?

3. If the answer to 2 is yes, how can I make a recovery disc if my CD drive is broken? I have a USB drive with 32 GB on it. Could I somehow use that?

4. If I need to buy a 64 bit version of Vista or Windows 7, is there any cheaper option than buying a copy off eBay for $50?

I've been wracking my brain for cheap ideas. I have an old 2.5 inch HDD from a Toshiba Tecra 950 that broke a while back and still has a perfectly good HDD with Windows 7 Pro 64 bit on it. But after a little research, I realized even if it physically fits into my T400, it's doubtful if it'll run Windows 7 Pro 64 bit on my T400 due to driver and compatibility issues. I thought about buying a T400 on eBay for $80 with Windows 7 Pro 64 bit already on it and placing that HDD in my T400 (I could then sell the T400 I got off eBay with the HDD from my current T400 and recover $45 or so), but I understand that may not work if the OS is an OEM version and looks to see if the motherboard, network card or w/e is the same one on the original machine.

I sent you a PM
Im using Palemoon, with multiple tabs open and never max out my 8 gig of ram. Most I have ever seen is about 50% or 4 gig. I grabbed a SSD and this unit is bloody fast. I dont plan on upgrading beyond W7 until Im forced.

Ron

I saw the PM, thanks for that. However, I don't understand exactly what you sent me.

You want 8GB of ram and a 120-240GB SSD drive and your T400 will last for several more years. The ram $40 or less and the SSD drive $40-$100 depending on what you get. I would suggest Win7 64-bit if you want to upgrade.

Just buy a Windows 7 x64 or search up product keys if you really don't want to spend that money (I know it is not legal but nobody would notice even if you did). Windows Vista SP2 is not necessarily slower than Windows 7 or vice versa but Vista is becoming obsolete. If you really want to stick with Windows Vista x86, get yourself another 1/2x 2gb stick on eBay or Kijiji and make it 3/4gb of RAM. However, you really should upgrade your T400 into Windows 7, 8.1, or 10.

Thanks for the responses.

I'd prefer to use Windows 7 64 bit too, but I'm going with whatever is the cheapest. So far, it looks like my options are to drop $50 or break the law. I'd hate to do either, especially if I have Vista 64 bit sitting on a partition in my HDD.

I have a pile of T400s (literally). They are the CHEAPEST laptops to run and maintain.

All mine landed with 4Gb (2 + 2) so there's no need to upgrade. I would question the need to upgrade as I think if you run out of memory at 8Gb you're probably pushing the CPU and architecture beyond what it will comfortably handle anyway.

The fastest one I have has a T9600 and even at 2.8 its not the fastest thing out there.

But even if you so wish to, its trivial out to buy 4Gb ddr3 modules for under $25. Chargers are $20-$30.

T400s have the cheapest batteries and keyboards out there. Toss the cdrom for a ultrbay hdd and you get 2 spindles for lots of storage.

Lastly... Windows 7 runs the inbuilt SLIC 2.1 so you dont need to pay a dime for Windows. Use a loader. You dont even need to mess with middleton or that ilk as it supports the best wireless adapters (Intel).

I do really love the T410 and T420 (I have a few of those as well) but parts prices are a lot more expensive (being a newer unit) and the T400 leverages commonality of parts back to the T61.

Only thing I dislike about the 400 is that it seems like the CCFL screens dominate so be prepared for that old school sepia look. Oh and the terrible AMD gfx which has horrible support.

Pop in an SSD or two and really... these things burn the current generation of Pentiums and whatever Intel are pushing now.

First of all guys (and gals) this is not the place where we promote software piracy, even if it is/was run by an Bill and his parrot (Yar Har Fiddle Tee Dee! ). T400 still seems to be pretty useful and solid piece of thinkpad. As some of us recommended allready you shall consider investing few bucks into 8 GIG of ram and SSD drive. You can put your spare HDD into HDD caddy instead of dead DVD-RW and use it as an additional storage. When it comes to a software matter:
- You can use free software like Clonezilla to create image of your hard drive. All you need is an flash drive containing 2 partitions, one for an mentioned software and the other one for an disk image storage space. If you need a help with that please contact me via PM.
- If you do not need to use Windows-dedicated software for whatever you do please consider switching to free software ie. Linux system, which is free and will work fine on your config.

"Piracy" is a bit specious in this case. These units were sold with Vista in a period where you got a free upgrade to Windows 7.

Vast majority of people want to run Windows 7, an o/s Microsoft doesnt want to sell any more. The license is already there in the bios. I have no issue 'activating' it. In any event, almost 10 yr old laptops running a 5yrs old operating system is not a 'low hanging fruit' as far as piracy is concerned. If someone wants to get a unit running to further their own education then I'd rather they do it than to stick with Vista and pay Microsoft $100 which they clearly do not need (or want at ths point). btw. free Windows 10!

Still, you picked the easiest laptop ever on hardware and software to run. If you cant at this point, heaven help you on any other laptop.

If you have 2gb, spend $10 on ebay on a 2nd 2gb stick of ram. Buy a $50 or $100 ssd depending on how much storage you need. Hell, I would argue that you could solder on with Vista to some degree but since Windows 7 is trivial to install on the unit...

As long as your BIOS has Slic2.1 in it (check with e.g. Slick_Toolkit), and it probably has,
you can use any set of Lenovo W7 Recovery disks (32 or 64 bit).
Semi-(il)legal part: no W7 COA needed, it activates itself.

If yours does not have Slic, search the internet for: slic bios lenovo t400

Follow up question:

I believe the T400 has 2 banks to hold RAM chips. So I can get 4GB by using 2 sticks of 2 GB RAM chips. My question: can I get 4GB by using only 1 stick of RAM with the other bank being empty? This is a lot cheaper to do on crucial.com

From quick research, it seems like it will work, but won't be as fast as using 2 4GB chips in both banks.

What happens if I install 2 4GB chips so I have 8 GB total, even though I'm running Vista 32 bit? Will it work as well as running 2 2GB chips? I ask this b/c 2 4GB chips are cheaper than 2 2GB chips.

If I were you I would completely upgrade the RAM first things first because buying something like 512mb for T4x, 1gb for T6x, 2gb sticks for T400/500, 4gb sticks for T410/510 and later you would end up spending more money buying the max stick some time afterwards. Then you have to pray that your sticks can be sold over this forum or eBay.

I'm cool with buying two 4GB sticks for my 32 bit Vista OS on my T400. I just want to make sure it'll work perfectly (since the Vista OS can only utilize up to 4GB).

I'd say 1 GB is the minimum RAM one can use in the modern world, using XP maybe, since Win 7 is a bit slow at 1 GB. 2 GB in the latest Core 2 Duo chipset complete with DDR3 should be decent anyway.

An upgrade to 4 GB of RAM should help your browsing. 8 GB would definitely come in handy if you're ever doing more memory intensive tasks like image editing with Gimp, 3D modeling, and saving a movie at the same time as browsing and watching the tube. I know 8 GB would definitely help me in that regard....

I agree that maxing out the specs should ensure its usefulness for a long time.

TPFanatic wrote:I'd say 1 GB is the minimum RAM one can use in the modern world, using XP maybe, since Win 7 is a bit slow at 1 GB. 2 GB in the latest Core 2 Duo chipset complete with DDR3 should be decent anyway.

An upgrade to 4 GB of RAM should help your browsing. 8 GB would definitely come in handy if you're ever doing more memory intensive tasks like image editing with Gimp, 3D modeling, and saving a movie at the same time as browsing and watching the tube. I know 8 GB would definitely help me in that regard....

I agree that maxing out the specs should ensure its usefulness for a long time.

If you use x86 Windows 7, 1GB should be more than good enough for single tab browsing.
On my T43 with 2GB, Pentium M 780 2.26ghz, and Windows 10 x86 10586 internet browsing with around 5 tabs opened at the same time for Microsoft Edge works just fine as long as they are not flash intensive. 4GB does help if you open 10+ tabs at the same time but I personally don't use more than 4GB of RAM unless I fire up Adobe Premiere Pro on my newer machine...

kfzhu1229 wrote: If you use x86 Windows 7, 1GB should be more than good enough for single tab browsing.
On my T43 with 2GB, Pentium M 780 2.26ghz, and Windows 10 x86 10586 internet browsing with around 5 tabs opened at the same time for Microsoft Edge works just fine as long as they are not flash intensive. 4GB does help if you open 10+ tabs at the same timebut I personally don't use more than 4GB of RAM unless I fire up Adobe Premiere Pro on my newer machine...

The tabs I have up are flash intensive, ie ebay, youtube, swagbucks, etc.

The cheapest upgrade is to replace Windows with Xubuntu (64-bit).
It is Linux.

Install LibreOffice as a replacement for MS Word - you can 'save as' docx format to make the files compatible with Word.

Linux is far more effecient and you will be able to use 4gb of ram, comfortably, for a long time to come.

You install Xubuntu by
1. download this http://mirror.us.leaseweb.net/ubuntu-cd ... -amd64.iso
2. copy that file to an empty USB flash drive (I'm not sure how to do that in windows)
3. boot the computer from the USB - hit F12 during boot and pick usb
4. install (very simple and clear - takes 5-15 minuets)

I picked up a pair of 4 gig Crucial for less than $30.00 shipped, then a pair of Hynix for less than $25.00 shipped for the wife's T500.

With the info provided there is no reason to not step up to W7. Its straight forward and that will let you use all 8 gig. Be careful as there are tons of High Density cards out there. Your memory needs 8 chips per side (NOT 4) (as I found out).

Ron

jaspen-meyer wrote:The cheapest upgrade is to replace Windows with Xubuntu (64-bit).
It is Linux.

Install LibreOffice as a replacement for MS Word - you can 'save as' docx format to make the files compatible with Word.

Linux is far more effecient and you will be able to use 4gb of ram, comfortably, for a long time to come.

You install Xubuntu by
1. download this http://mirror.us.leaseweb.net/ubuntu-cd ... -amd64.iso
2. copy that file to an empty USB flash drive (I'm not sure how to do that in windows)
3. boot the computer from the USB - hit F12 during boot and pick usb
4. install (very simple and clear - takes 5-15 minuets)

I'd love to go this route, but I can't. I must use Windows and MS Office.

jronald wrote:I picked up a pair of 4 gig Crucial for less than $30.00 shipped, then a pair of Hynix for less than $25.00 shipped for the wife's T500.

With the info provided there is no reason to not step up to W7. Its straight forward and that will let you use all 8 gig. Be careful as there are tons of High Density cards out there. Your memory needs 8 chips per side (NOT 4) (as I found out).

Ron

But how, without spending $50? I know SLIC is a possibility, but I'm still researching into exactly how that works. (I have Wind Pro 7 COA sticker from the Toshiba Tecra 950 that broke).

mh9162013 wrote:I'd love to go this route, but I can't. I must use Windows and MS Office.

You must use Windows? Could you quote the dictate giving that order?

MS Office can be run on Linux! , if you really must use it and can't use LibreOffice which can save files in MS Office format, can be installed on Linux.

So, I'd say, "Problem solved."
Total cost: no charge

Incidently I misspoke earlier and wrote you'd need 4gb of ram. I thought you already had 4gb of ram.
Xubuntu'll run fine with 2gb RAM and 10+ tabs open (just tested with youtube playing in background, a few ebay tabs open, and a total of 15 tabs of 'research' pages).

jaspen-meyer wrote:

mh9162013 wrote:I'd love to go this route, but I can't. I must use Windows and MS Office.

You must use Windows? Could you quote the dictate giving that order?

MS Office can be run on Linux! , if you really must use it and can't use LibreOffice which can save files in MS Office format, can be installed on Linux.

So, I'd say, "Problem solved."
Total cost: no charge

Incidently I misspoke earlier and wrote you'd need 4gb of ram. I thought you already had 4gb of ram.
Xubuntu'll run fine with 2gb RAM and 10+ tabs open (just tested with youtube playing in background, a few ebay tabs open, and a total of 15 tabs of 'research' pages).

I believe I must use Windows to run MS Office (apparently this assumption was wrong). I also do Swagbucks where I think I need a Windows or Mac OS machine. :Lastly, I also do freelance work where I need to make sure my computer and its software are compatible with websites or software I must utilize for work.

jaspen-meyer wrote:The cheapest upgrade is to replace Windows with Xubuntu (64-bit).
It is Linux.

Install LibreOffice as a replacement for MS Word - you can 'save as' docx format to make the files compatible with Word.

Linux is far more effecient and you will be able to use 4gb of ram, comfortably, for a long time to come.

You install Xubuntu by
1. download this http://mirror.us.leaseweb.net/ubuntu-cd ... -amd64.iso
2. copy that file to an empty USB flash drive (I'm not sure how to do that in windows)
3. boot the computer from the USB - hit F12 during boot and pick usb
4. install (very simple and clear - takes 5-15 minuets)

Well I tried Ubuntu and Mint on a Dell OptiPlex GX520 Pentium 4 630 Prescott machine and it was just horrible. First, the CPU is about a speed of a Pentium M 745 in my T42 (I use Pentium 780 on my T43), so it takes quite some time to start up (Windows 10 hibernates as fast shutdown and then boots much faster). Then, I have no idea to get the GMA 950 to work (While I used Windows Vista driver for Windows 10 and it worked just fine). Then, I get random screen flashing problem when switching between tabs while the task view in Windows 10 is silky smooth.
In the other hand Windows 10 works as good as I just expected. Modern light tasks can be easily handled by that machine with 2gb of RAM.

Consider Windows 7 to be Windows Vista fixed, with some renamed reworked features, and more customization in the taskbar, and you need to install Windows Movie Maker (2.6, 6.0, or :barf: Live) yourself.

Vista SP2 might even be faster than 7 due to its superfetch settings... if you have the RAM, or course.

According to these guys at Mikerosoft forums (https://social.technet.microsoft.com/Fo ... rohardware) their 32 bit OS machines work with 8 GB of Ram installed. If you upgrade to 8 GB, the performance won't be any different to having 4 GB installed, but so long as both memory sticks are the same size (2x2 or 2x4) the computer will use Dual Channel mode.

You probably don't need to install 8 GB now since, with your 32 bit OS, you're not going to use more than 3 and a half. If you do install 8 GB, however, it means you don't need to upgrade again from 4 to 8, if you get a 64 bit OS, since you'll already be maxed out.

I haven't run across a time when I'm browsing at 4 GB in 64 bit Win 7 / Vista Fixed where I run out of memory, even though Firefox is a memory hog - and that can be fixed with a different browser or browser mods. 3.5 GB in a 32 bit Vista shouldn't feel any different, it's only a 12.5% difference from maximum usability. In my opinion you can buy 8 GB and it'll work but you won't need to use all of it yet, you can maintain your current Windows.

TPFanatic wrote:You probably don't need to install 8 GB now since, with your 32 bit OS, you're not going to use more than 3 and a half. If you do install 8 GB, however, it means you don't need to upgrade again from 4 to 8, if you get a 64 bit OS, since you'll already be maxed out.

I haven't run across a time when I'm browsing at 4 GB in 64 bit Win 7 / Vista Fixed where I run out of memory, even though Firefox is a memory hog - and that can be fixed with a different browser or browser mods. 3.5 GB in a 32 bit Vista shouldn't feel any different, it's only a 12.5% difference from maximum usability. In my opinion you can buy 8 GB and it'll work but you won't need to use all of it yet, you can maintain your current Windows.

Well I agree with you that you don't need more than 4gb of RAM for x86. And I tried my fully upgraded T43 with Pentium 780 and 2gb of RAM against half upgraded T530i with i5 and 16gb of RAM, there isn't much of a difference in terms of Windows 7/8/10's usability (Versions earlier than Vista wont run properly on my T530i due to the lack of the new NVidia devices' support). I mean like T43 will be slower but not too far behind. 2gb is good enough for things like Facebook, eBay, YouTube, etc. as long as you don't fire up too many of them at the same time. I tried upgrading to 4gb on a Toshiba Satellite AMD Turion TL machine from my school and I never run out of RAM as long as you do not do gaming (However you still get weird lags due to the fact that Turion TL's Level 1 cache speed is even slower than a Tualatin Pentium III's and Level 2 cache capacity is the same as a Tualatin Pentium III's (512kb).)
And that is why I am using 2 T43s and leave my newer 2012 machine alone at least for next 2-4 years until Windows 10 requires a x64 CPU and/or SSE3.

You must have very high tolerance of system response. I have machines like the T61 with 4Gb ram 120gb ssd and running Windows 7 and even in classic mode its not as smooth as I'd like. Cpu is a T7700 so its 2.4gb and in theory the above machine *should* be ok,

Maybe its because my machine in question has the Intel 965 video and the 900p screen? Its just not that snappy. This is Win7 up to the current updates.

Even lower speed T400s are getting to the bare minimum, even with an SSD... I think the HD4500 video is a bit better but its about as low as I can take for general use.

Thing is the above machine as a barebone ex lease is about the same price as a decent 120Gb SSD so bare that in mind.

I actually think it might be faster to use VNC or teamviewer to connect to my i7 desktops and run stuff off there than to use apps on the actual laptop.

Perhaps this is more an indictment on how sloppy Win7 has gotten in its old age.

Once I go back to my T410 or T420 I notice that Windows 7 has sped up by a lot but if I dont use them I dont miss the speed.

The T7700 is showing its age. A T9500 feels much faster in my T61 after the upgrade and the intel X3100 doesn't seem to be holding anything back unless I try to run 3d apps. Also doing a fresh install of Windows can do wonders for getting your performance back. If you don't require Windows, then a lightweight linux distro like arch linux + icewm window manager will give you quite a bit of speed boost.

brchan wrote:If you don't require Windows, then a lightweight linux distro like arch linux + icewm window manager will give you quite a bit of speed boost.

He needs Windows for work.

fwiw, I just ran a test on my 32-bit x60 L2400 (has just 40% of a T9400's processing power) and 1gb PC2-4200 (slow) ram with a Debian derivative. With 10 tabs open, a youtube video playing in the back, wrinting a word document, installing programs and running an image editing program -- all at the same time....ran fine.

Thank you all for your advice. I really love this site and I knew I'd get some great responses. As of today, I think I have two options.

1. Buy the 4GB RAM. Cost = about $15-$25

2. Buy a used T400 off eBay with 4GB RAM already built in and an OS already installed. It doesn't even need to have a charger (I have two 65W chargers laying around I got at a yardsale for $1). As long as it has 4GB of RAM, that's what's important. From my researching on eBay, I can find this for $40-$60 shipped.

Option 2 is more than my budget, but with a second laptop (which will get the 2GB RAM from my current T400), I can double my earnings from Swagbucks. Basically, a second laptop will make me about $0.50 to $1.00 per day by running videos in the background while I do "real" work on my primary T400. That means going with option two will pay for itself in about a month.

Most likely an advertised "4 GB" T400 on Ebay will already have both slots filled with 2x2 GB installed in it.