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T400 does not boot: any hint?

T400/410/420 and T500/510/520 series specific matters only
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BigCatAndy
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T400 does not boot: any hint?

#1 Post by BigCatAndy » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:24 pm

Hello everyone,

I suppose, I need a hin of the community, because I cannot resolve the issue by myself. Here is my story: recently I bought used T400 (2767-WYM) at eBay for 10€. The seller warned me, the laptop is broken, but I just wanted to play a bit (10€ for a toy :-) ). It has 4 GB of RAM, 320 GB SATA HDD. So, I brought it at home, tried to start - no chance. The boot process stops with "Thinkpad" logo on the screen. I tried to press all F-keys to enter BIOS - no chance. Then I removed RAM, HDD, battery... assembled again - same story. I suppose, the main board is dead. Is it so? How can I test it reliably?

And if the board it dead - what can I do to fix it? Buy a new one? Buy another broken T400 to "mix" them into one?

Any hints are welcome. Kind regards from Hamburg,
Andrey
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

thinkpadcollection
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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#2 Post by thinkpadcollection » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:34 pm

With no memory, should make 1331 beeps. Sitting at Logo is usually dead cmos battery had bios settings lost, try waiting long time and see if it finally show messages? Can could take up to a minute.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#3 Post by axur-delmeria » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:47 am

Have you tried removing all drives (CD/DVD, HDD)?

Sometimes a malfunctioning drive can cause the BIOS to seemingly hang, because it's waiting for the drive to respond.
Daily driver: X220 4291-C91 i7-2620M

Backup: X220 4291-P79 i5-2520M
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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#4 Post by Brad » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:41 am

Carefully examine the USB ports.

They are known to fail and if some of the connector parts touch the outside metal that could cause the issue you are having.

Brad
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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#5 Post by BigCatAndy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:18 am

Hello everyone, thanks for the quick reaction. I try to respond to all hints:
- Beeps without Memory: yes, when I removed all Memory modules, it even didn't reach the logo-state. Just beeped several times with black Screen;
- CMOS battery: I have a replacement battery for T60p, so I will use it for testing, Switch on and wait longer time;
- HDD is already removed, DVD is still inside, but it starts to rotate when laptop starts, I can hear it. Should I pool it completely out?
- faulty USB ports: this is quite strange model. It has 1 USB port and 1 FireWire port ("the bigger one") on the left side (and not 2 USB ports), and has PCMCIA- and ExpressCard-slots (just like my T60p). The ports look healthy, but I can check it more carefull.

What I really don't like, is a fact that I cannot even enter BIOS. For me it's a bad sign, that nothing Works anymore.

Regards,
Andrey
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

dr_st
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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#6 Post by dr_st » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:48 am

BigCatAndy wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:18 am
this is quite strange model. It has 1 USB port and 1 FireWire port ("the bigger one") on the left side (and not 2 USB ports),
It's not FireWire, but DisplayPort, but that is besides the point.

To check the physical health of the USB ports, I wonder if it's enough to try to plug something into each one of them (while the laptop is off, just to be safe). If the port allows the device to plug in freely, wouldn't it mean that there is no physical short?
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#7 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:07 am

I have interest to see a picture of the left hand port allocation of this T400.
lenovo T61 T7500, SXGA+, 8GB
lenovo T410s i5 520m, WXGA+, 4GB
lenovo T430 i5 3320m, FHD, 8GB
lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
lenovo T520 i7 2760QM, FHD, 8GB



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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#8 Post by Elmer Fishtwanger » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:49 pm

BigCatAndy wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:24 pm
I tried to press all F-keys to enter BIOS
Did you try the Thinkvantage button? Probably I would see if I could get it to boot from ubuntu on a usb flash drive. If hanging on the logo screen means bad cmos battery, then bad cmos battery might be all it is. They don't last forever.

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#9 Post by BigCatAndy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:30 pm

Hello everyone,
dr_st wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:48 am
It's not FireWire, but DisplayPort, but that is besides the point.
it's neither FireWire nor DP (T400 has no DP). It's broken USB port, without its part in the middle. I checked it carefully today.What I see: two of the wires are standing straight, and two of them (most right and most left) are deformed and pressed into port itself. Looks like someone inserted anything and pushed them to the back. Unfortunatelly, I don't know how to attach images, otherwise I would do it - I made a photo of it.

Yes, I tried Thinkvantage button. Same effect. Better to say, no effect. I also tried to boot from Knoppix CD and from Ubuntu USB drive. As I say, the laptop just shows Thinkpad logo, the sentence "press Thinkvantage button..", and that's all.

Now I disassembled it, pulled out all bateries (normal and CMOS). Should I try another CMOS battery later? Should I try to straighten deformed USB wires?

Regards,
Andrey
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

TPFanatic
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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#10 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:34 pm

That busted USB port could be your problem! Try to bend the wires to a more normal position and your laptop might work.
lenovo T61 T7500, SXGA+, 8GB
lenovo T410s i5 520m, WXGA+, 4GB
lenovo T430 i5 3320m, FHD, 8GB
lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
lenovo T520 i7 2760QM, FHD, 8GB



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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#11 Post by jaspen-meyer » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:41 pm

BigCatAndy wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:30 pm
it's neither FireWire nor DP (T400 has no DP). It's broken USB port, without its part in the middle. I checked it carefully today.What I see: two of the wires are standing straight, and two of them (most right and most left) are deformed and pressed into port itself. Looks like someone inserted anything and pushed them to the back.
The USB ports on the right of the machine, the side with the Enter key, those ports can be easily disconnected from the motherboard.

If they are the ports on the left of the machine, make it so the contacts are not touching anything metal. Or, you can remove the contacts. The deformed ones could be causing the problem.

If you are not able to fix the problem, the motherboard can be replaced. Before you do that, you should try removing all the extra parts which connect to the motherboard (dvd, usb, wifi, modem cabel, sim card reader, etc.)
T420 i7 3612QM seabios; T420 i7 3630QM; T400 Q9100 seabios; T61 P9600; T60 libreboot; x62; x60s libreboot, led; x24 xiphmont led

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#12 Post by BigCatAndy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:48 pm

OK, I will try to do it next days.
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#13 Post by dr_st » Tue Jan 16, 2018 2:49 am

BigCatAndy wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:30 pm
it's neither FireWire nor DP (T400 has no DP). It's broken USB port, without its part in the middle. I checked it carefully today.What I see: two of the wires are standing straight, and two of them (most right and most left) are deformed and pressed into port itself.
That's right! Forgot that DP on *00 series was on 15" models only. Well, your mystery appears to be solved. :)
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#14 Post by BigCatAndy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:51 pm

Hello everyone,
I have to admit - I didn't expect that I would do it, but - I can report success! :-) Today I tried to straighten those damaged pins in the USB port. Didn't work for 10%, but at least they do not touch anything now. Then I put CMOS battery in, normal battery, pressed "power". And it started! OK, there were lost BIOS settings, and some security number... But I could start Ubuntu from USB drive, I could enter BIOS.. looks good... Here are some properties of the laptop: Core2Duo P8700 2,53 GHz, 4 GB. Hard drive works also. Dispay 1440 x 900.

But I discovered another issue. I found a couple of free lying wires under the keyboard. They come from the left side (where USB ports and VGA are), and end somehow over heat sink. One wire has blue ring, another one red. The ends of the wires are covered with rubber caps. As far as I understand, there is also a miniPCI-slot near the PCMCIA/EXpressCard, istn't it? My first idea is, that those wires are cables for the miniPCI. Is it true? I think, I should invest some time in disassembling it and checking the cables. And I need a set of screws - the guy who sold it to me left only one screw there... :-( He wanted to fix the problem by himself and didn't manage it.

I have already 600x, T43p (14" with 1400x1050) and T60p with 1600x1200 (T43p and T60p are still active and working). Now I have to decide what I should do with that T400. Collect for the future? :-) Sell T43p? But this is also a kind of legend :-) Any ideas?

Regards,
Andrey
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#15 Post by Neil » Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:56 pm

Those wires are probably antenna leads for a WWAN card. And, yes they are routed to the (likely empty) miniPCI slot.
Collection = T500 - R400 - X300 - X200 - T61 (14" WXGA+) - T61 (14.1" SXGA+) - T60 (15" SXGA+) - X40 - T43p - T43 - T42p - A30P

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#16 Post by BigCatAndy » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:03 pm

@Nell: thanks.

I see that many people here just collect different TP models. Perhaps, I should do it too. I sold already one T23 with SXGA resolution and 1 GB of RAM... :-( not very smart from me..
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#17 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:13 pm

If you flash a no-whitelist BIOS you can put something like a miniPCI to SD card or miniPCI to USB port on there for more storage.
lenovo T61 T7500, SXGA+, 8GB
lenovo T410s i5 520m, WXGA+, 4GB
lenovo T430 i5 3320m, FHD, 8GB
lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
lenovo T520 i7 2760QM, FHD, 8GB



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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#18 Post by BigCatAndy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:04 am

Hello TPFanatic,
TPFanatic wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:13 pm
If you flash a no-whitelist BIOS you can put something like a miniPCI to SD card or miniPCI to USB port on there for more storage.
sorry, what do you mean?

I still haven't decided what I should do with that T400. Sell or Keep? As I said, I have T60p with UXGA. And T43p, and 600X. And Dell D420 for trips. Actually, I have more Laptops that I Need.:-(

T400 is definitely faster and more quiet thatn T60p. But also has more technical defects. Any hints from other TP-Gurus? :-)

Regards from Hamburg,
Andrey
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#19 Post by thinkpadcollection » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:41 am

T420 or T430? Honestly, I favor the T430 with integrated GPU or discrete GPU depending on your needs. Win 10 do work well on these two. Otherwise HP or Dell with 15W processor available on i3, i5 and some of them come with i7, can get 6 hours appox.

T410 is not pretty good on performance and battery runtime.

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#20 Post by jaspen-meyer » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:16 am

You could sell it here:
https://thinkpad-forum.de/forums/16-Bie ... beh%C3%B6r

Or, you could replace the CPU with a P9600 or T9400. If you are very adventurous you can replace it with a Q9100.
T420 i7 3612QM seabios; T420 i7 3630QM; T400 Q9100 seabios; T61 P9600; T60 libreboot; x62; x60s libreboot, led; x24 xiphmont led

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#21 Post by BigCatAndy » Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:44 pm

Hello,
thinkpadcollection wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:41 am
T420 or T430? Honestly, I favor the T430 with integrated GPU or discrete GPU depending on your needs. Win 10 do work well on these two. Otherwise HP or Dell with 15W processor available on i3, i5 and some of them come with i7, can get 6 hours appox.

T410 is not pretty good on performance and battery runtime.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection
I have neither T420 nor T430. Since I don't really use them for work, I'm quite happy with the performance of T60p. :-)
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#22 Post by thinkpadcollection » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:08 pm

This is not matter of a best GPU of a T60p, it is the memory limitation of 3GB, playback features for current website for best battery runtime is not there anymore vs T420/T430 and other newer processors. If not using that, just word processing, and simple web mail etc and none of anything using playback then T60 series are fine as long as one do not mind the 3GB ram.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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Re: T400 does not boot: any hint?

#23 Post by BigCatAndy » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:12 pm

Hello,
thinkpadcollection wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:08 pm
This is not matter of a best GPU of a T60p, it is the memory limitation of 3GB, playback features for current website for best battery runtime is not there anymore vs T420/T430 and other newer processors. If not using that, just word processing, and simple web mail etc and none of anything using playback then T60 series are fine as long as one do not mind the 3GB ram.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection
Actually, I'm rather satisfied with T60p, and would not change it (just because of the performance). I decided to keep T400 and replace my T43p (which I still occasionally use for web-surfing/mailing) with T400. Perhaps. once T400 will become a primary device. :-)

regards,
Andrey
(1) IBM TP T60p 2008-9EG 2.33GHz / 3 GB / 180 GB (Intel SSD), 15' UXGA 1600x1200, 320 GB in Ultrabay
Dual boot: Win7 Pro (32 bit) + Ubuntu
(2) Lenovo TP X200s 7466-3SG 1,86GHz / 2 GB / 160 GB (WD Black Mobile)
Win 7 Pro

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