Thinkpads Forum

Subject says it all.

1 - durability
2 - effective and realiable warranty services
3 - ergonomics - classic keyboard, silence, energy efficiency
4 - 4:3 IPS or the like
5 - hifi-quality audio on the audio jacks

When I got my T60 I didn't think I would need (or could possibly afford) more than 2 GB of RAM. Now I'm stuck at the 3 GB limit, time to upgrade.

Mainly durability but also the warranty and the general support you get for paying a premium for these notebooks.

1. Ergonomics. I wish the styling of the T40, T41, T42 came back.
2. Screen
3. Durability

The only wish I have for any ThinkPad now is that it come with XP Pro.
... JDH

1. Durability
4. Features (Chipset, etc.)
9. Screen size
2. Weight
3. Size
7. Noise
5. Warranty
6. Customer Support
8. Other

Something like this

Now that 4:3 is gone, I'm hard pressed to bring myself to buy another ThinkPad, as much as I like them otherwise.

jdhurst wrote:The only wish I have for any ThinkPad now is that it come with XP Pro.
... JDH

Hi, JDH,
Can you elaborate on why XP Pro instead of Vista?

My focus is durability, but also docking.

The thought of just snagging the computer with me when I go to school, and when I get home just put it down on a dock instead of hooking up the power cord and everything else, gives me a teardrop in my eye.

StevenD wrote:

jdhurst wrote:The only wish I have for any ThinkPad now is that it come with XP Pro.
... JDH

Hi, JDH,
Can you elaborate on why XP Pro instead of Vista?

Yes. I spent thousands of dollars to get to Vista (including the T61p laptop and a very pricey copy of Office 2007 Pro). It uses four times the disk space as XP Pro, four times the processor as XP (two fast CPU's vs 1 slower CPU for XP), and four time the memory. For all of that:
1. Windows Explorer does not work properly.
2. Windows Briefcase works but is pathetically slow.
2a. Offline files is not supported by some vendors when the laptop is offline.
3. Wireless does not work properly (web pages won't finish loading and that is a real problem for this forum where we need to log in first).
4. Windows Search fails to find text in .TIF files (easily done in XP).
5. The login itself is busted (won't maintain my userid and no option to override that).
6. The user interface is less productive than XP (no matter how much I try to get back to true Classic).

So for all the dollars and capacity, Vista Business 64-bit does roughly half as much as XP Pro.

I keep going after Microsoft (they are so buried in Vista attacks that they are offering free support to small business users until mid-2009 if you are running SP1 - I am).

1. They offered a significant registry patch for Windows Explorer that has much improved it. They fully admitted there was not enough Explorer cache for business users to save settings.
2. Briefcase is now working properly (but still very, very slow).
3. No fix for wireless yet (two cards, neither works properly). New case to be submitted later this week
4. They have no intention of fixing their broken search engine. Fast is useless if it cannot find what I need.
5. I can live with the busted login.
6. I will live with the deeply flawed user interface but with a deep-seated and permanent dislike for it.
7. ipSec VPN finally got fixed; Microsoft VPN is still not working.

I have been working for months in this Vista machine. Some of the needed software (Adobe Standard, Netscreen VPN, etc) only came out for 64-bits this past June, 2008, so it is NOT foot-dragging on my part in any way. Adobe Flash is still not available for IE 7 64-bit.

I have revised my target of stand-on-its-own-two-feet production from the end of 2008 to the end of 2009 at the current pace of Microsoft and 3rd party vendor response.

... JDH

Thanks, JDH,
Windows XP is somewhat old, but it seems to work great for me, and I wasn't excited about Vista unless it could offer something important I don't have with XP.

I'm looking at upgrading my T60p to a T500 or W500. Lenovo's site offers a downgrade to XP Pro with their laptops, but they say, "Note: The downgrade from Genuine Windows Vista Business is intended for business, educational and public sector customers requiring Windows XP Professional that expect to order at least 25 PCs annually." I wonder if I would be able to talk them into a downgrade for *one* unit!
/S

My choice was "other" .... i.e. audio recording capabilities.

Has anyone got their new T400 or T500 to record stereo audio form a "stereo mix" or "what-u-hear" source?

Or is "mic" the only recording source like the older T61?

More info about the T61's audio recording issue in this sticky thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=52527

StevenD wrote:... Lenovo's site offers a downgrade to XP Pro with their laptops, but they say, "Note: The downgrade from Genuine Windows Vista Business is intended for business, educational and public sector customers requiring Windows XP Professional that expect to order at least 25 PCs annually." I wonder if I would be able to talk them into a downgrade for *one* unit!
/S

My guess is they (have to) put in that quote to appease MS.
Who knows, you might be ordering 24 more laptops in the next 12 months .

eecon wrote:My choice was "other" .... i.e. audio recording capabilities.

Has anyone got their new T400 or T500 to record stereo audio form a "stereo mix" or "what-u-hear" source?

Or is "mic" the only recording source like the older T61?

More info about the T61's audio recording issue in this sticky thread:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=52527

Does anyone here actually have one yet? AFAIK, they're call CTO.

1. Size
2. Weight
3. Durability
4. Features (Chipset, etc.)


I will probably not buy a T400/500 - they look bulky. I hoped for a T300..

jdhurst wrote:The only wish I have for any ThinkPad now is that it come with XP Pro.
... JDH

I could not agree more....

FRiC wrote:When I got my T60 I didn't think I would need (or could possibly afford) more than 2 GB of RAM. Now I'm stuck at the 3 GB limit, time to upgrade.

Your cpu supports 64-bit. Install 4GB and a 64-bit OS.

Unless there's a hw limitation that the T60's cannot see past 3GB of memory that I am unaware of?

And to support what JDH said: Yes, as much as I like to stay optimistic regarding Vista, Win2k8 (we run it on a few servers and I run it on my home workstation as well), and without giving too much detail, it's just a bad OS. Though I'm still staying hopeful that it matures properly.

Kamika007z wrote:

FRiC wrote:When I got my T60 I didn't think I would need (or could possibly afford) more than 2 GB of RAM. Now I'm stuck at the 3 GB limit, time to upgrade.

Your cpu supports 64-bit. Install 4GB and a 64-bit OS.

Unless there's a hw limitation that the T60's cannot see past 3GB of memory that I am unaware of?

Yes, the T60 is hard-limited to 3 GB of RAM. The other GB is used for PCI addressing, not that I understand it.

wswartzendruber wrote:

Kamika007z wrote: Your cpu supports 64-bit. Install 4GB and a 64-bit OS.

Unless there's a hw limitation that the T60's cannot see past 3GB of memory that I am unaware of?

Yes, the T60 is hard-limited to 3 GB of RAM. The other GB is used for PCI addressing, not that I understand it.

Eh... well that sucks :-\

Thank you for the clarification