Really sick of the T400 - I miss my T61! Shame on Lenovo for

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kingweb · #1 Post by **kingweb** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:04 pm

From day 1 since I got this expesive brick, there have been problems.

1. Fingerprint reader on almost everybody's T400 malfunctions.

2. Litterally 50% of the time that I try to shut down, hibernate, or standby, the system gets stuck in the proccess, and I have to use the power button to shut it off.

3.There is NO way to do a custom factory restore like the T61 used to have. Right out of the box, I tried, and it wasn't there. I downloaded the latest version of R&R, and now it offers me to do a custom factory restore, but it doesn't work! I try both the regular factory restore and the custom, and I get the same error. (paraphrasing) unable to find c:\preboot\utils\convert.cmd. Lovely, now what. I tried reinstalling R&R, and still the same thing. Worse, when I try the factory restore, it asks me if I want to format just the C drive, or all the hard drive with all the partitions. I though those partions were put there by Lenovo in order to restore, etc. WHAT KIND OF A STUPID QUESTION IS THAT??! How do I know which to use. Of course there is no documentation about it. Totaly unclear!! So now, I can't even reformat my computer. AND NO, I AM NOT USING THE CD's! I don't even have them.

4. Access connections always crashes.

I have thge power manager set to keep the computer on at ALL times when on AC power, but of course it still goes into standby.

Any help with #3 would be greatly appreciated! It might solve the other problems once I am able to reformat without all of the junkware.

#2 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:29 pm

kingweb wrote:<snip>

3.There is NO way to do a custom factory restore like the T61 used to have. Right out of the box, I tried, and it wasn't there. I downloaded the latest version of R&R, and now it offers me to do a custom factory restore, but it doesn't work! <snip>

If this is true, call or write IBM (Lenovo) support and first ask how you can recover straight out of the box, and asuming it doesn't work (as you note), then second, request that the computer be repaired.

It is a good idea to recover the system right out of the box, or very early afterward. Don't let anyone tell you different. Later may be too late. ... JDH

kingweb · #3 Post by **kingweb** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:38 pm

jdhurst wrote:
kingweb wrote:<snip>

3.There is NO way to do a custom factory restore like the T61 used to have. Right out of the box, I tried, and it wasn't there. I downloaded the latest version of R&R, and now it offers me to do a custom factory restore, but it doesn't work! <snip>
If this is true, call or write IBM (Lenovo) support and first ask how you can recover straight out of the box, and asuming it doesn't work (as you note), then second, request that the computer be repaired.

It is a good idea to recover the system right out of the box, or very early afterward. Don't let anyone tell you different. Later may be too late. ... JDH

No need for repair, this is all software (junkware) problems.
I tried to do the custom restore right out of the box, but it wasn't available, so i did a regular factory restore.

#4 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 8:24 pm

If Access Connections as supplied out of the box, and Power Manager as supplied out of the box crash and don't work, then something is wrong. I have issues with the new GUI's (which I have taken up with Lenovo), but both tools work on a T61 without crashing.

If you are certain the T400 is crashing with the same software that does not crash on a T61, then it seems that something must be wrong with it. That is how I read your story. I certainly would not be prepared to accept any computer that crashes as supplied.

I suppose, as I am coming up on my 10-year anniversary of no BSOD's on any NT-based machine I have owned (all IBM), I am not looking forward to machines that do crash.

Cheers, ... JDH

wswartzendruber · #5 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:12 pm

This is definitely software-related. I did a fresh format on mine and used drivers straight from Intel's website. The results have been superb.

Well...

Except for the fingerprint reader.

FizzleDizzle · #6 Post by **FizzleDizzle** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:55 pm

jdhurst wrote:It is a good idea to recover the system right out of the box, or very early afterward. Don't let anyone tell you different. Later may be too late. ... JDH

JDH, can you say more about this? Why do you view this as necessary? I tend to reinstall machines every year or so to keep them clean, but I don't do so out of the box.

rxblitzrx · #7 Post by **rxblitzrx** » Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:38 pm

sorry to hear about your bad experiences with the T400. I did a fresh Xp install and I've only had one problem with it. The wireless 5300 card was acting up a for a while, but after a little manual config, I've had no issues.

I didn't get bluetooth, fingerprint, or camera though. No need for any of the frill.

The T400 has been the best Thinkpad I've owned to date. LED backlighting rocks my world.

#8 Post by **jdhurst** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 6:42 am

FizzleDizzle wrote:<snip>
JDH, can you say more about this? Why do you view this as necessary? I tend to reinstall machines every year or so to keep them clean, but I don't do so out of the box.

1. (Reasonably likely) - If you purchased or made recovery CD's, they may not work. I had that twice with a NetVista A30 and a T41. It is easier to get IBM to replace CD's when the machine is new.

2. (Less likely) - The recovery partition might not work correctly.

In any event, testing early is worthwhile. I tend to run on the same build for years at a time, rebuilding only for HD changes and such like. So I like to know (3 years on, say) that recovery will work.
... JDH

#9 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 7:41 am

I agree about restoring right out of the box. I have seen some new machines run bad until I restored them and then they were fine. Testing the newly created restore disc set is a good idea too.

FizzleDizzle · #10 Post by **FizzleDizzle** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:57 am

Ok, interesting.

I've never had trouble getting recovery disks from Lenovo, but have used them only once, and I delete the recovery partition almost immediately. I remember once trying to recover my T60P, and the image was so old, it required 97 (!) critical updates to reach the current state of XP at the time. (Must have required 30 reboots.) Just faster for me to start from a more recent state.

I was really surprised how many updates my T400 required, including SP3 for XP. What most people don't realize is that the "Windows Update" version of the SP3 install kills the disk defragmenter, so you need to use the admin msi version instead. Restoring these machines can be quite involved. That's why my old Thinkpads eventually move to linux. (By the time they are somewhat old, drivers are easy to get...

)

kingweb · #11 Post by **kingweb** » Sun Oct 12, 2008 10:44 pm

Well, I tried making the recovery discs.
There were 2 links in the "thinkvantage folder"
1. Create recovery discs - This only created 1 CD.
2. Creat product recovery discs - This created 2 CDs.

I am not sure what does what, so I did both, and assumed that all would be ok.
I put the 1st disc from the "product recovery discs" in, and it looked like it was going to work until some error about certain files not being found came up. It also asked me for a "suplimental" disc which I have no idea what that is. In any event, it didn't work, and my windows installation was gone. SOL.
Luckily, when I ordered the T400, there was an option to also include recovery discs for windows XP. (I use vista). So I figured XP is better than nothing even though I won't get all 4GB of RAM.

I installed XP, and my T400 is ok for now. However, I want my Vista 64 back. I guess I will have to call lenovo and explain to them that their crapware currupted itself, and that I don't want to pay for recovery discs.
Any advice on that?

wswartzendruber · #12 Post by **wswartzendruber** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:28 am

kingweb wrote:Well, I tried making the recovery discs.
There were 2 links in the "thinkvantage folder"
1. Create recovery discs - This only created 1 CD.
2. Creat product recovery discs - This created 2 CDs.

I am not sure what does what, so I did both, and assumed that all would be ok.
I put the 1st disc from the "product recovery discs" in, and it looked like it was going to work until some error about certain files not being found came up. It also asked me for a "suplimental" disc which I have no idea what that is. In any event, it didn't work, and my windows installation was gone. SOL.
Luckily, when I ordered the T400, there was an option to also include recovery discs for windows XP. (I use vista). So I figured XP is better than nothing even though I won't get all 4GB of RAM.

I installed XP, and my T400 is ok for now. However, I want my Vista 64 back. I guess I will have to call lenovo and explain to them that their crapware currupted itself, and that I don't want to pay for recovery discs.
Any advice on that?

Is there some reason you can't do a from-scratch Vista install? All you need is a 64-bit Vista disc, as each disc typically contains all the versions (restricted by the product key you enter). If you need links to drivers, let me know.

lew2 · #13 Post by **lew2** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:20 am

kingweb wrote:Well, I tried making the recovery discs.
There were 2 links in the "thinkvantage folder"
1. Create recovery discs - This only created 1 CD.
2. Creat product recovery discs - This created 2 CDs.

I am not sure what does what, so I did both, and assumed that all would be ok.
I put the 1st disc from the "product recovery discs" in, and it looked like it was going to work until some error about certain files not being found came up. It also asked me for a "suplimental" disc which I have no idea what that is.

Select Cancel at this point in the process and it asks for the Product Recovery Disc 1 and will continue the Product Recovery process from there.

kingweb · #14 Post by **kingweb** » Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:54 pm

Well, I called Lenovo today, and they are sending me the recovery discs.
As for using a clean install for vista, I don't have a stand alone 64 bit vista disc. I only have one for 32 bit.

tylerwylie · #15 Post by **tylerwylie** » Tue Oct 14, 2008 1:33 am

Unfortunately with most OEM products I get frustrated at all the preloaded crap anyways and end up wiping it. Even when I gave Vista a shot on my laptop, I had to reformat it, put a clean install of Vista on there, and then from there added only what I wanted. Ran a LOT better though.

kingweb · #16 Post by **kingweb** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:42 am

Update:
My Commodore 64 was better than the T400

Lenovo sent me the Vista64 recovery media.
I tried installing it, and it kept getting stuck!!

I called Lenovo and told them that I wanted someone to come out to me to tomorrow (Friday). Nobody came. I called, and they said, "ohh we scheduled it for Monday".
Then they said they could change it to today. Then they said no they cant change it.
One idiot after another!!!

On site support is useless since they don't come and dont do anything. I am on the phone with lenovo as I am writing this, and I keep getting bounced from one clown to the next.

Marin85 · #17 Post by **Marin85** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:46 am

kingweb wrote:On site support is useless since they don't come and dont do anything.

While I can well understand your frustration, I think you sort of "overgeneralized" here. For instance, they have really excellent support here in Germany. Of course, it may look different in U.S., but it seems to me that you have been a bit unlucky. I hope your problem will be settled soon.

Cheers

Marin

kingweb · #18 Post by **kingweb** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 1:22 pm

Anyway, now I am trying to get them to send me a new laptop. I shouldn't have to have repairs on a new laptop.

Either way, they are coming on Monday with a new motherboard. I don't know how they came to the conclusion that it was my my motherboard. Anyway, in the mean time I tried installing again, and now I get error: 0xc00000e9

I looked it up, and it seems like it is hard drive related.

lew2 · #19 Post by **lew2** » Fri Oct 17, 2008 10:44 pm

kingweb wrote:Anyway, now I am trying to get them to send me a new laptop. I shouldn't have to have repairs on a new laptop.

Good luck with that, it isn't how the world works. Unless it truly is more cost effective to replace rather than repair, a repair is what you'll get.

Nothing and nobody is 100% perfect; some laptops will leave the factory with a problem. Manufacturers will use the most cost effective means to have a working system in the owners hands. If that means replacing components instead of shipping a new laptop, that's what you'll get.

Sorry you've been having problems, but be reasonable. We are no longer in the days premium-priced IBM-built Thinkpads. Stuff happens, and with a $1000 laptop the response is going to be different than in the days of a $5000 laptop.

kingweb · #20 Post by **kingweb** » Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:14 pm

Lenovo is nothing short of pathetic!
The tech guy came to my office on Monday and tested everything, and both he and I determined that the problem was with the recovery CDs that were sent to me. So he did not replace the motherboard. He ordered new CDs for me. Great. I didn't get them yet, but I guess they will fix the problem.

As for the fingerprint reader. He replaced it, and it worked great until 10 minutes ago when the "too short" looping error came back again!!
This is the 3rd fingerprint reader that has been in my young 1.5 month old T400.
THREE defective fingerprint readers!! My friend also has a T400 and he has the same issue.

I will update here as soon as the guy in India at tech support gets back on the line. He has me on hold for 10 min already.

paulxu · #21 Post by **paulxu** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:23 am

Marin85 wrote:
kingweb wrote:On site support is useless since they don't come and dont do anything.
While I can well understand your frustration, I think you sort of "overgeneralized" here. For instance, they have really excellent support here in Germany. Of course, it may look different in U.S., but it seems to me that you have been a bit unlucky. I hope your problem will be settled soon.

Cheers

Marin

It is very different here in USA than in Taiwan I have to say.
I suffered a lot and still suffer from Lenovo USA myself as kingweb does. Before buying T400 in LA, I used T42 in Taiwan for 3.5 yrs.
Compare my personal experiences on Lenovo service provided in Taiwan and here in USA is just like heaven to hell. It's not unlucky, it's Lenovo = lousy service + unworthy product.
I will never buy Lenovo ThinkPad in USA.

kingweb · #22 Post by **kingweb** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:23 am

Update:

Well, finally some good came. I got the case escalated, and they decided to replace my T400. My new one is on the way, and I will be sending the lemon back once I get it.

Also, while trying to fix the old one, they installed the 4th fingerprint reader which has been in my computer for 1 week with no problems!!
Also, they determined that my hard drive was at fault for the crashes. They sent me a new hard drive, and also, about 1 week with no problems.

Either way though, I bought a new laptop and it should have to have been serviced twice, have 4 fingerprint readers replaced, 2 hard drives, and 12 trouble tickets with Lenovo. The thing is only 2 months old.

Lenovo did the right thing by deciding to replace it for me.
I already got a shipping confirmation on the new one, so I am just crossing my fingers for the new one and hoping that it will work nicely.

tylerwylie · #23 Post by **tylerwylie** » Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:54 am

Always nice to hear customer service isn't totally down the poopshoot. My T61's only a year old, I'm going to try to make it last at least 3 years

Really sick of the T400 - I miss my T61! Shame on Lenovo for

Really sick of the T400 - I miss my T61! Shame on Lenovo for

Re: Really sick of the T400 - I miss my T61! Shame on Lenovo

Re: Really sick of the T400 - I miss my T61! Shame on Lenovo

Re: Really sick of the T400 - I miss my T61! Shame on Lenovo

Re: Really sick of the T400 - I miss my T61! Shame on Lenovo

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