Thinkpads Forum

Interesting answers, but the brightest laptop I have seen is dimmer than the dimmest desktop LCD screen I have seen, so I remain unsure of any danger. ... JDH

Lenovo is listening for improvements, newer T400 / T500 / W500 models have a better keyboard design. Maybe the displays will improve, too. I bought a more or less dim T60 flexview and definitely like it over the bright x301 I bought before.

My BlackBerry Bold has a feature called "Automatically Dim Backlight". The default is set to on. If you set it to off, you are then able to chose from a minimum of 10% brightness, in 10% increments up to 100%. While my old BlackBerry 8310 Curve had that same feature, the auto dim sensor was far less effective as the new improved system in the Bold. I now can leave it on auto dim and at night it actually dims it steplessly to less than 10% if needed. It's a very useful feature that I leave turned on at all times. It also does quite a good job of getting more run time out of the battery. What I find is that during the day it never needs to go above 30% even in bright sunlight.

My new Unibody MacBook Pro has a similar system that is very effective. Lenovo is beginning to slip away when it comes to up to date technologies. I for one, hope that they turn things around. I cannot imagine _not_ using a ThinkPad as my _Main_ laptop. However that said, perhaps it will come to pass whether I like it or not...

ssd_thinkpad wrote:Lenovo is listening for improvements, newer T400 / T500 / W500 models have a better keyboard design. Maybe the displays will improve, too.<snip>

While it's nice that they are "listening", they have regressed and failed to make progress in certain areas. They are listening to us complain about components that they already know how to build properly, yet consciously decided to lower their standards on. So instead of listening to useful feedback of what we would like "added" in the future, they are busy listening to what we want them to "bring back".

Some how that sounds like General Motors to me.....

ssd_thinkpad wrote:<snip>I bought a more or less dim T60 flexview and definitely like it over the bright x301 I bought before.

I'm hanging onto my T60 and T60p flexview models like they are the last laptops on the planet.....

Frankly I never thought I would see the day, when I would experience anything like this.

Cheers...

archer6 wrote:over listening to their core customer base

As a matter of interest, why do you think that their "core customer base" (large corporate customers) is not being listened to?

Cheers,

Bill

bill bolton wrote:

As a matter of interest, why do you think that their "core customer base" (large corporate customers) is not being listened to?

Because the 4:3 format would've been kept. I could name several huge corporate accounts in NYC alone that Lenovo lost after killing the standard format LCDs. And these were businesses that wouldn't allow anything but a ThinkPad seven or eight years ago.

Goodbye ThinkPad, hello ToughBook. Serves them (Lenovo) right.

ajkula66 wrote:I could name several huge corporate accounts in NYC alone that Lenovo lost after killing the standard format LCDs.

But can you name how many they gained with the more mainstream 16:10?

ricerocket wrote:

But can you name how many they gained with the more mainstream 16:10?

I doubt that they've gained many corporate customers with that approach...put it this way: the nature of my work is such that I'm exposed to business customers five days a week, including most of the upper portion of the Fortune 500 list. Seven years ago, all you ever saw were ThinkPads. Nowadays, you do see (mostly leftover 4:3) ThinkPads but majority of the machines are Macs and ToughBooks.

My experiences only. YMMV.

jdhurst wrote:Could someone please explain how I can hurt my eyes with a laptop?

I don't think that you can hurt your eyes with a T61p that has a 4:3 panel, as long as you set brightness to a value which you feel is comfortable.

ajkula66 wrote:I could name several huge corporate accounts in NYC alone that Lenovo lost after killing the standard format LCDs.

Please name them then.

Some evidence that the accounts were lost specifically because of screen aspect ratio would add credilbility.

Cheers,

Bill B.

ajkula66 wrote:including most of the upper portion of the Fortune 500 list. Seven years ago, all you ever saw were ThinkPads. Nowadays, you do see (mostly leftover 4:3) ThinkPads but majority of the machines are Macs and ToughBooks.

That seems odd. I've worked first for a Fortune 50 and now a Fortune 25 in the last 4 years, and they use Dell and HP respectively.

@JaneL:

You're in SC, I work in NY. That's why I said YMMV. The company that is fortunate enough to have me on payroll is within Fortune 15.

@bill bolton:

It would be pretty hard to specifically prove that the reason that I've stated was the only one, but it's a pretty hard coincidence...

As for the large accounts lost: Verizon, Con Ed, NYPD. That's just for starters.

ajkula66 wrote:You're in SC, I work in NY. That's why I said YMMV.

Just because I'm in SC doesn't mean either of those employers are... One is in the NY/NJ area; the other is in the midwest. I report to someone in California.

@JaneL:

I believe that you're missing my point: I can't state what Merryl Lynch or Morgan Stanley had as their laptops of choice seven years ago in Minnesota, California or North Dakota. I can, however, tell you that in NYC offices that choice was ThinkPads and more ThinkPads at the time. Not any more...

ajkula66 wrote: It would be pretty hard to specifically prove that the reason that I've stated was the only one..

Just as I thought!

To say that companies gave up on Lenovo because the 4:3 format was gone is a bit strange. Lenovo was one of the last to ditch it. By now it's gone from everyone, including Toughbooks.

To say that this was the reason they gave up on Lenovo is to say that for years the 4:3 format was the only thing that kept them with Lenovo, while competitors had better other features. I find that difficult to believe.

I find it possible that these corporate customers were disappointed with Lenovo's offering in a number of different ways. I certainly know a few that did. But probably not because of 4:3 alone.

Most corporate customers really were unhappy with the transition to widescreen. But it's not like there are any alternatives, and if they existed briefly, they are gone now.

On a side note: Macs? You really mean there is a single corporate environment there (outside of Apple, of course), where people use Macbooks as primary laptops for their employees? I'd like some of the stuff that their IT departments are smoking, then.

Like Jane, most of the non-Thinkpad laptops I see in business environments are DELL and HP business lines. In fact, we have some HP workstations where I work. But most of them are still Thinkpads.

bill bolton wrote: As a matter of interest, why do you think that their "core customer base" (large corporate customers) is not being listened to?

Because I am a part of that very group of large corporate customers. I have watched as the large pharmaceutical companies have replaced their X series ThinkPad tablets with those from HP. I have spoken to the decision makers within those companies and heard the same things said about why they chose to make the switch. I have watched large hospitals choose Dell or HP. Finally as the founder and CEO of a large scale enterprise I have experienced a shift in overall direction that concerns me. Make no mistake, in no way am I being negative or critical, I am a huge ThinkPad advocate of many years. I'm simply sharing what I see and experience from my perspective. After all this is a forum of public opinion. At the end of the day I want nothing more as a fellow businessman, than to see Lenovo continue the ThinkPad tradition of excellence.
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Cheers...
posted via BlackBerry Bold

ajkula66 wrote:I believe that you're missing my point:

I'm not missing your point at all. We have a rigid policy about what is allowed on our network, and the hardware standards list to purchase from is the same no matter what state the employee is located in. Exceptions to the standards list are few and far between. It was no different at my previous employer.

I'm not really trying to argue that the corporate world has not or is not moving away from ThinkPads over the last few years since both of those employers used to use them. I'm just saying that the move to widescreen had little to no effect on it. It was more about price, availability, price, support, and price. Oh, yeah, and did I mention price?

JaneL wrote:

Oh, yeah, and did I mention price?

There's no arguing about the fact that for many corporations price has become an issue, or was one to begin with. However...

The things are a bit different with the crowd that I'm referring to...

Five or eight years ago ThinkPad was a part of a dress code in business world south of 96th Street in New York City. That simply isn't the case anymore.

For these customers, price was never an issue, until maybe a few months ago. They were paying for these fine machines (and for a lot of other stuff) from their stockholder's pockets. That's why we are in a dungeon we're in today, but that's a whole another topic, and I want to keep politics out of this one, for everyone's sake.

You don't replace a ThinkPad with a Mac or Panasonic if the price is your main concern.

The way I understand it, those who saw ThinkPads as nothing more than a part of a dress code are using Macs now for the most part.

The ones that had other priorities in mind, but wanted something that can be a part of a dress code, went with "business" ToughBooks.

Utility companies and law enforcement have chosen a utilitarian replacement, "rugged" ToughBooks, which are still available in 4:3 format BTW.

I'm not about to start discussion on what makes sense on a corporate level, or not. What I'm trying to do is present a snapshot of the reality that I'm exposed to on a daily basis, and have been for the past decade.

Once again, YMMV, and by a huge margin. Not all corporate environments are as rigid as ones that JaneL was referring to, although many of them undoubtedly are.

I rest my case (until further notice... )

archer6 wrote:Because I am a part of that very group of large corporate customers.

So am I, but I see quite a different view in the markets I work with.

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote: So am I, but I see quite a different view in the markets I work with.

I would enjoy hearing what you are experiencing in your markets.
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Cheers...
posted via BlackBerry Bold

Boy have you guys went off-topic...

ajkula66 wrote:For these customers, price was never an issue, until maybe a few months ago...You don't replace a ThinkPad with a Mac or Panasonic if the price is your main concern.

Exactly. Thinkpads used to be significantly more expensive than the business lines of Dell and HP, but under Lenovo's management, this difference in price has virtually disappeared. I agree with George that companies that switched over to Panasonic most likely did so because of the 4:3 aspect ratio, and perhaps also the superior quality of the Toughbooks. On the other hand, for the companies that migrated to Dells and/or HPs, the most probably reasons were the rapidly improving quality of Dell and HP laptops, and these companies' preference for American products. (I'm ditching Thinkpads for HPs and Dells for the same reasons.)

pianowizard wrote:<snip> I'm ditching Thinkpads for HPs and Dells ...<snip>

And replacing your ThinkPads with?

Cheers...

archer6 wrote:And replacing your ThinkPads with?

At this point I'm only sure about my 240Z, which will be upgraded to the HP Mini 2140 netbook. I'll hold on to the T42 and T43p for a while, but I'm almost 100% sure that when I decide to sell them, they'll be replaced with Dell and/or HP. (I'll be getting a Dell Vostro 1720 early next year but that's to replace my current Compaq desktop, not my Thinkpads.)

I still sort of believe that Thinkpads are slightly more reliable and durable than Dell and HP laptops, but all of the widescreen Thinkpads released to date (except the Z-series) look so repulsive that the small quality advantage isn't enough justification for me to buy them. If there really were going to be a 4:3 T500 that looks like the 15.0" T4*, then I would consider buying one, but, as we concluded in this thread, that's just a rumor.

pianowizard wrote:I still sort of believe that Thinkpads are slightly more reliable and durable than Dell and HP laptops, but all of the widescreen Thinkpads released to date (except the Z-series) look so repulsive that the small quality advantage isn't enough justification for me to buy them.

Quoted for truth.

This is why I plan to keep my T60 15" SXGA+ Flexview for as long as it runs. Which I expect will be long enough.

Same here holding on to a 4:3 T42p. Will have to look for other 4:3 options.

As far the price goes, as said earlier Lenovo's Business model prices are comparable to HP and Dell. However people are sticking to HP's and Dell's. I have personally seen a company move to HP recently ( even after having Lenovo T60's) due the screen aspect ratio. I don't know if some deals happened behind closed doors on the pricing but publicly in open meeting screen aspect ratio was cited as one of the discussion points.

rssb wrote:I have personally seen a company move to HP recently ( even after having Lenovo T60's) due the screen aspect ratio.

The reason that most of the companies that I know have moved to HP is price, as they are being very aggressive to earn business. How do you know it's solely based on screen aspect ratio?

More importantly, which recent HP models featured 4:3 screens? I don't think I know of any.