Thinkpads Forum

I've heard that Lenovo is supposedly going to re-introduce an option for a non-widescreen display, and am incredibly excited about this. Anyone know when this might actually reach the market?

Like most business users, I spend virtually all of my time dealing with vertical data (word processing, web browsing, etc.), where widescreen displays are incredibly annoying. I returned my T400 for an old T60 because of the lack of vertical space, so the propspect of a high-tech Thinkpad with a **usable** screen is really exciting!

Admin Edit: Since there has been no substantiation at all regarding the original subject that this was "coming", the title had been edited to reflect reality.

Sounds great. I knew when I purchased my T61p that Vista was not ready for prime time (Adobe was not truly ready, SafeNet was not truly ready, Microsoft was still issuing patches in response to my emails), but I desparately wanted to have a 4:3 screen. It is in production (was since September last), and I am soooo happy not having widescreen (speaking ONLY for myself, of course).

... JDH

Is this real?? Where did you guys hear that???
This is going to be a huge hit!

Many will take the web by storm, perhaps the servers would have difficulty processing the request, the outlets are going to have extra hours ...oh my!!!

Where did you get this revelation?

I'd buy one with good display instantly. Maybe lenovo has some influence on supplier market to get these 4:3 displays build. That way lenovo can really stand out for business notebooks.

That would be really great! I´m in Can you provide a link or source of your information?

Thanks,

Marin

If this is true - i am very impressed with Lenovo
Well i am anyway for the most part, but this would just be really cool.
I'd probably start saving up for a motherboard though, and hope it will be just somewhat compatible with the 15" T6x chassis, except a few port changes here and there. That would be cool, but the chances would be slim.
It would be really nice if Lenovo could just sell the motherboards, eventually with memory and cpu in comon form factors, in sizes backwards compatible with the T6x series - i know it isn't some sort of gaming laptop with mxm cards and noisy fans, which can be upgraded, but it has great modularity, and if people like their LCDs, design and the system in general, why force a whole brand new system onto them, if they just want to upgrade with a new GPU, etc. This would make the system quite complex to maintain, so that's probably no one does this.

But still, a source on this would be nice - weasel speak regarding this would be unfair to Lenovo if it turns out just to be a rumour created by some witty person.

This sounds _far too good_ to be true... but given the fact that I finally caved in and purchased a widescreen ThinkPad W500 just a week ago, the new 4:3 T500 will probably be released tomorrow.....heh!

Cheers...

Yeah, well my company just upgraded my T60 to a T400 and I'm not liking it. Love the performance, but it's huge and heavy. I'm considering calling our notebook IT guy and asking him if I can have my T60 back. If they ever came out with a 4:3 T400, I'd buy several just for my house! Never really liked the 15" 4:3, just too big for me. But I can see where Lenovo would have a distinct edge in the commercial space for a good old 4:3 again.

I call BS.

The laptop market is driven by the LCD market, not the other way around. LCD manufacturers have made it pretty clear that they're done making 4:3 panels for whatever reason. It's also the same reason that IPS panels are completely gone in all non-tablet sizes despite all your protests...

I have not heard anything conclusive, but before you call BS, recognize that many people, having been forced to accept widescreen behemouths and complaining about it, that Lenovo just might be listening to market criticism.

Although I am using Vista (and found out how to make it work), the market forced Microsoft to eat crow and admit defeat. Out-of-the-box Vista was simply unacceptable to millions of business people. Oh how I do understand that.

So the same people wanting a capable 14' 4:3 screen just might make a dent in manufacturers plans. We can only hope. .... JDH

Lets hope this is true.

I would buy a new T400 SXGA+/UXGA in about 1 minute if they came out with one. For now I will stick with what I have.

That would be great, i hate WS on a laptop.

Come on, no one uses old VGA D-SUB connector today, all projectors at offices are at least DVI or HDMI today.

Also they could drop the VGA connector and put in HDMI or DVI and also i think they should put back the DB-15 serial port.

kjjb0204 wrote:Yeah, well my company just upgraded my T60 to a T400 and I'm not liking it. Love the performance, but it's huge and heavy. I'm considering calling our notebook IT guy and asking him if I can have my T60 back. If they ever came out with a 4:3 T400, I'd buy several just for my house! Never really liked the 15" 4:3, just too big for me. But I can see where Lenovo would have a distinct edge in the commercial space for a good old 4:3 again.

Yeah how come the T-models today are so thick and bulky? my T41P is pretty thin and neat to use, the T400/500 is like twice as thick and that nasty widescreen i hate.

My T61p is a smidgen larger than my 14" T41, but for all practical purposes, the same svelte size. That is why I like it. ... JDH

I'd be extremely surprised if this were to be anything more than just another rumour...

Apart from certain ToughBooks, 4:3 format is dead, and I don't see Lenovo as being the one to pull the stake out of its heart...

@Likvid, you said T400's are Huge & heavy, thick and bulky. You also said a T400/500 is like twice as thick ..well lets see ;

14" T41 - (WxDxH), 31.1 cm x 25.5 cm x 3.1 cm. Weight, 2.2 kg (4.9 lbs)
14" T60 - (WxDxH) 31.1 cm x 25.5 cm x 3.1 cm. Weight 2.2 kg (4.9 lbs)
14" T400 - (WxDxH) 33.6 cm x 23.8 cm x 3.2 cm. Weight, 2.4 kg (5.3 lbs)

So, what we have here is that the T400 is;

2 cm wider (.8 inches)
2 cm less deep (.8 inches)
.2 kg heavier (.4 lbs)
.1 cm thicker (.04 inches)

So, is the statement 'thick' or 'twice as thick' correct as we compare a T400 to a T41 or a T60 - Not really....only .1 cm (.04 inches) thicker

So, is the statement 'bulkier' correct as it compares to a T41 or a T60 to a T400- From Websters - 'bulky' - having great volume in proportion to weight.

Lets take a look at volume vs. weight for all three;

T41 volume is 31.1 cm x 25.5 cm x 3.1 cm = 2459 cubic cm
T60 volume is the same
T400 volume is 33.6 cm x 23.8 cm x 3.2 cm. = 2559 cubic cm

What's the ratio of a T41's voluime to it's weight; 2459/2.2 = 1118 cubic cm per kg
What's the ratio of a T400's volume to it's weight; 2559/2.4 = 1066 cubic cm per kg

The result is that a T41 or T60 is 52 cubic cm per kg less bulky than a T400.

52 cubic cm per kg represents .04% of a T400's total bulk, and .04% of a T41 or T60's total bulk

Can't argue that the T400 is bulkier, but given the size/weight of both machines it's hardly worth mentioning. Getting back to websters, well all three machines are bulky by definition.

Ok, what about 'huge' by comparison, I don't agreee there either because the dimensions are very close.
Then finally we have 'heavy'. That I will agree with only because we are talking about a portable device here and every fraction of a kg counts. Is .4 lbs a deal-breaker? Depends on individual strength, how often and far the laptop is carried, and the carring method. Lots of variables there ... what might be 'heavy' for one person is light for another.

I have a 14" T60 and a 14" T400 sitting on a desk in front of me at the moment, they are very close in size, and I can see the T400 is not as deep. Otherwise picking both up they feel the same to me. So, I guess I am not sensitive enough to tell the difference with .4 lbs.

Why did I go thru the above, because I hate it when people make generalizations about a product either without having seen a direct comparison in person or in order to make themselves feel better about a current possesion or recent aquisition. Its all hearsay, not based on fact.

OK, so the T400 is a bit bigger than a T41/2 and is significantly heavier, but it has a screen that is 6% smaller (in area) and 1 inch shorter. That's supposed to be progress?

No argument from me on LCD's, I am a 4:3 aspect ratio fan from way back (note the other (3) machines in my sig). But, the T400's LCD is fine for my purposes. It is bright and clear, and the viewing angles are adequate. The 1" shorter is because it's a widescreen .

Harryc wrote:No argument from me on LCD's, I am a 4:3 aspect ratio fan from way back (note the other (3) machines in my sig). But, the T400's LCD is fine for my purposes.

Well said. I find my T400 delightful.

Also my compliments on your earlier post about sizing. As someone who loves dealing with specific data and pure facts, that post made me laugh... not at you, but at me... because it sounded just like a response I would post.....

Cheers...

Don't mean to sound too harsh here but its not reliable to trust some member how has been around here for so little claiming a non-supported statement about a new laptop.
We all know LCD manufacturers are no longer producing 4:3 screens, it's a shame but that's reality.
Also a 15" 4:3 T500? In the first place people with 4:3 they love generally have the 14.1" form factor so I'd say it's unlikely there will be a T500 only, it makes sense to commercialize the T400 just like the last T61 which had a 4:3 panel.
But hey, we can keep dreaming, I just hope one day the eyes on those who make consumers bought things because is 'the fashion' realize ditching the 4:3 was a bad idea.

In the meantime I would just take care of my Thinkpad like it will be my last. I don't see myself using those crap widescreen version. I cant figure on my mind the idea of having a laptop wider, which weird enough the word laptop is meant to be used on your lap, but we could go on on this rant.. so I rest my case.

The main problem with this thread is the title, which is clearly misrepresentation of the facts. Even the original post uses terms like "heard" and "supposedly", making it clear that this is nothing more than rumours and wishful thinking. At the same time the title makes it seem like a fact. Someone not bothering to read the thread carefully may thus continue spreading the rumour.

I think the title should be changed.

The reason why we can't buy new 3:4 laptops is that everybody thinks it's not profitable. It's not like the LCD manufacturers have said they "won't produce 4:3 screens, period". They would, if someone paid enough for it. So if Lenovo thinks they can make an expensive 4:3 notebook and still make a profit from it, then it's possible they will go for it.

Then all we need is for others to follow so the price will drop once again.

I really hope we will see this happen.

exTPfan wrote:but it has a screen that is 6% smaller (in area) and 1 inch shorter. That's supposed to be progress?

You left out the T400's higher brightness and higher resolution at lower relative price points.

That is definitely very significant progress for my point of view.

Cheers,

Bill B.

bill bolton wrote: You left out the T400's higher brightness and higher resolution at lower relative price points.

I dunno... in Aug 2007, I was paying $1000 for well-spec'd T60's with an IPS panel, brand new directly from Lenovo.
So it seems to me that today you actually get a lower quality screen at that price point.
(But that might be just because the IBM epp aint the good deal it used to be.)

SkiBunny wrote:I dunno... in Aug 2007, I was paying $1000 for well-spec'd T60's with an IPS panel, brand new directly from Lenovo.
So it seems to me that today you actually get a lower quality screen at that price point.
(But that might be just because the IBM epp aint the good deal it used to be.)

I certainly understand your viewpoint.

However, my take (right or wrong) is that is has very little to do with the retail or program pricing. But rather the fact that Lenovo is _following_ the market instead of _leading it_. In the typical interest of profits first, over listening to their core customer base, they have chosen to follow the migration to widescreen displays. Unfortunately the ever present trend that prevails in the consumer market is style over function.

I've always been amused that Sony makes no attempt to hide it with their online operation named "Sony Style". Where much like Apple, it's all about attracting new customers with how attractive their styling and colors are. Functionality is secondary and the products are over hyped. As laptops become personal accessories amongst the consumers where being "seen" with a MacBook or Sony is perceived as "being cool" the serious users such as ourselves who speaking for myself, use my laptop to "get work done" suffer with the degradation of functionality that we are witnessing.

Look at how bad it's gotten over at Apple. Now one cannot even purchase a MacBook Pro without the super reflective mirror like glass cover over the display. Matte has gone by the wayside and Jobs swears it's because of demand. Well that is bunk, in so many cases. If not, then there would not be a company in existence like TechRestore. Their main function is to remove the mirror like glass and replace it with matte glass so that you can use the computer. All for a modest (sarcasm) $200, plus $100 shipping so as to get it done in a few days as opposed to being without your computer for more than a week! So here we are, Apple already over-charges by in some cases twice the price of an equivalent ThinkPad, only to have to pay an additional $300 so that you can use it without ruining your eyesight. All for the sake of "looking good"......heh!

Suddenly our ThinkPads don't look all that bad...... yet. Only time will tell, but I for one would be extremely delighted to see Lenovo get serious and provide us with the high quality display that is a pleasure to view, and that one can use comfortably without a second thought.

Cheers...

bill bolton wrote: "...but it has a screen that is 6% smaller (in area) and 1 inch shorter. That's supposed to be progress?"
You left out the T400's higher brightness and higher resolution at lower relative price points.

That is definitely very significant progress for my point of view.

Cheers,

Bill B.

Not from mine. With normal indoor lighting 100 nits is about right ---- anything higher I turn down.

exTPfan wrote:With normal indoor lighting 100 nits is about right ---- anything higher I turn down.

Same here. I concentrate on normal contrast with dimmest as possible backlight rather than increase low contrast by increasing backlight. Its like the Kindle: Its good enough to just read all the time on it - and it does not even have any backlight. The more backlight, the worse it is for your eyes. You do not want to look into the sun for too long, too.

I have a T61p which has a brighter screen than any IBM laptop I have had going back over a decade. Even so, my T61p, when sitting beside my IBM desktop, is simply not as bright (and not as bright by a wide margin) than my 120V desktop flat screen monitor. Could someone please explain how I can hurt my eyes with a laptop? When responding, please note that in that 10 years, I had to get reading glasses and now wear progressive bi-focals. Nonetheless, otherwise my eyes are fine. ... JDH

Excessive brightness hurts eyes... What's excessive depends on a lot of different factors, some personal, some external.

Nevertheless, as was mentioned, for working with text in a normal environment, 100-120 nits are recommended, 150 tops. Since any laptop LCD provides this much, one can claim that adding more and more brightness, while may be a sign of progress, isn't really helpful for anything (unless one plans to work in outside environments).

Contrast, on the other hand, matters a lot. And unfortunately laptop displays (with exception of IPS) seem to lack good contrast, even if they boast ridiculous 500nit brightness ratings.

The backlight really needs lots of watts if it is set to high. That means it could cost more money. And that is the reason why there are marketing slogans like "Buy this monitor and he will help you save money". How? By adjusting its backlight. My years old desktop tft adjusts its nits to

• type of application. Any text application has low nits and a yellow like background where movies have maximum nits and a more sgb like color range. Done by a usb connection between monitor and docking station.
• environment light. The light sensor measures the light and adjusts itself.

This is both very basic and will keep you save some energy and is healthy to your eyes. This works very well for my external monitor but on the thinkpad I did not found any solution yet. Although when being mobile these automatically adjustments would be very great. Lenovo did start here somewhat by providing "dimming when shutting down" options.