T400 CPU and Screen

[DeAnna]

Hi everyone. : )

I've been reading voraciously as I configure a new T400, and this site has been an invaluable resource, as always. Thank you all!

I just have a couple of questions remaining before I pull the trigger.

1. Screen: They don't have the LED with WXGA+, and I can't wait. I really don't like high resolutions on 14" screens, never using the 1400 x 1250 on my T41P; when needed, I just switch to my external.

So, I was going to go with the WXGA w/LED, until I saw a few people say theirs sucked. ?

Were they likely to be one-offs, or should one expect a visible difference (DPI... contrast... anything) between a WSGA and a WSGA+ screen even when they are both set at 1200 x n resolution?

I can handle lower-res, as long as it isn't grainy or dull.

(I'll ask question 2 in the next post...)

[DeAnna]

2. Processor: I don't want a T9x00 CPU, but I'm wondering what you all think is the sweet spot among the P8x00s.

I'm pretty sure I want to bypass the P8400 (2.20GHz) and go with either the p8600 (2.40) or the P8700 (2.53). It's about a $50 difference.

So, is the difference between 2.40 and 2.53 GHz worth $50 more?

Or... should my choice of graphics card or OS determine the choice? Since my software is said to be 64-bit compatible and I do no games or 3d graphics, I've pretty much decided on Vista 64 (w/4GB ram) and integrated graphics, unless y'all advise otherwise...

I've added my usage patterns to my sig, for context.

Thanks!

[ZaZ]

The marginal value of the P8600 is almost zero, even if you run CPU intensive apps 24/7, because it will only be slightly faster. If you want a performance bump, a faster hard drive or SSD is a better choice.

I've only seen the WXGA+ LED screen. It was decent, nothing great. It will certainly be a fair bit brighter than your T41. I'd personally say the WSXGA+ screen on the T500 is better. If you're planning on running Vista, it does a pretty good job of making things bigger through adjusting the DPI.

[dr_st]

1) If you intend to run the screen at WXGA (1280x800) resolution, then by all means get the WXGA screen. Non-native resolutions on LCDs just look blurry when running text-based applications. LED or not LED, does not make much difference. The screens are not of high quality either way, but quite usable.

2) It's the same CPU, only slightly faster. For just a $50 more, I'd take the P8700, although you probably will never feel the difference.

[postdiction]

Hi, I am a proud owner of new (to me) T400.

for your questions, here are my 2 cents:

1) Running a LCD in a non-native screen resolution for extended amounts of time will not be a pleasant experience. I think you should get a LCD with a native resolution that you want. Mine is 1440x900 and I think it is great.

2) As for processor, I have a 8400 and it is plenty fast for me. I can do all that i need and even run a VMWare virtual machine with xp without trouble.

however, it sounds that you might be using some cpu extensive applications.

$50 for a speed bump constitutes a very small percentage of the cost. Its probably best to buy the most cpu you can afford because it can't be changed. However, just to let you know these processors are plenty fast and your bottle neck will be your harddrive.

hope that helps,

postdiction

[DeAnna]

Thanks, guys. : ) Very helpful advice. It would be wonderful to have the LED, since my backlights tend to dim so soon, being on so much of the day. I'm just spooked by the members who said theirs were grainy, and I can't figure out why. All I can find in the tabook is that the wxga+ with CCFL has higher nit than wxga with CCFL:

14.1" (358.1mm) WXGA (1280x800) color, anti-glare, CCFL backlight, display
185 nits, 16:10 aspect ratio, 300:1 contrast ratio

14.1" (358.1mm) WXGA+ (1440x900) color, anti-glare, CCFL backlight, display
200 nits, 16:10 aspect ratio, 300:1 contrast ratio

Oddly enough, I can't find a 14" WXGA with LED in the tabook at all, except with the high 680 nits option. Could it be that they use poorer quality screens for the wxga with LED?

[archer6]

Hi everyone. : )

I've been reading voraciously as I configure a new T400, and this site has been an invaluable resource, as always. I just have a couple of questions remaining before I pull the trigger.

Here's a little background so you know what my baseline experience is, for offering suggestions. Currently I have three new T400's (don't ask... I'm addicted... ) One with the P8600 2.4GHz / WXGA w/CCFL backlight / 3GB ram / 160GB 7200rpm hard drive / Win XP Pro / and it's fast. Another with the P8700 2.53GHz / WXGA+ w/CCFL backlight / 160GB 7200rpm hard drive / 32-bit Vista Bus. The third with T9600 2.8GHz / WXGA+ w/CCFL backlight / and originally a 160GB 7200rpm hard drive, which has been replaced by a very fast (for an SSD) 128GB SLC MemoRight SSD.

Based on your excellent outline of what you will be doing with your new T400, I ask: are you completely committed to a 64-bit OS at this point? Or could it wait?

If you can run a 32-bit OS awhile longer, my suggestion is to go with a P8600 / 3GB ram / WXGA w/CCFL / 160GB 7200rpm hard drive / Win XP. This is a great configuration which I believe will make you very happy and serve your needs ideally. It's future proofed to the point that it could be enjoyed until about six months or so after the release of Windows 7 and the advent of SP1 for that OS. At that point (this is my plan) you could then increase your ram to 4GB, choose Win7 64-bit, perform a clean install and be good as new.

Now to address your question about display resolution, I like the WXGA on my T400 and find it every bit as bright, clean and crisp as my WXGA+. While I do understand that there are a lot of critical reports, and I too would like Lenovo to get serious and upgrade display quality, in no way do I find these bad at all for that matter, and I'm very picky. However that's not to say that some may not have received bad or defective displays. In my case the display is very satisfying. As far as going to the 2.53GHz processor it's a waste of money, for $55 you get the 7200rpm hard drive which truly makes a difference. I also think that Windows 7 is well worth skipping over Vista, and once 7 has been out long enough to get it's first service pack, then it will be ready for prime time. Having tested and used Vista & the RC candidate of Win7 as secondary OS's most recently, my personal choice is 7 hands down. However you may already be using Vista and be fine with that.

There is a huge difference between the current T400 being sold by Lenovo as compared to the originals (yes I had those too). Many issues have been resolved and I find the current crop very good machines.

Hopefully I've covered some of your questions and remain open for more.

Cheers...

(by the way I'm a huge advocate / user of Ubuntu)

[ZaZ]

Almost any notebook you buy today is going to be brighter than your T41. You seem to be on the fence a bit. For this reason and this may be a bit of heresy here, but you might want to look at the Dell e6400. Not because it's a better notebook, but Dell offers a much better return policy than Lenovo right now. You could try one out to see if you like it. If not, you can return it. If you bought a T400 and for some reason didn't like it, you'll be stuck paying the 15% restocking fee, which on a $1,000 notebook is $150. It like the T400 is a very solid notebook and has a better warranty than most ThinkPads. The keyboard and trackpoint aren't as good, but if you don't care about those things, they won't matter.

[archer6]

Counterpoint

Dell? E6400? A machine so new it's yet to prove it's reliability or lack thereof?

Have you tried one of these? I have, as my neighbors company uses Dell, and began using the E6400 upon it's release. While not a bad laptop, (I don't put down the competition) it's no where near as good as a ThinkPad in many areas. This is based on my personal opinion, thus I will not get into a detailed list of shortcomings, but suffice to say that one would be better off with the HP equivalent, and that machine is still no match for a ThinkPad.

Cheers...

[ZaZ]

I've tried several and a e6500 too. The keyboard and trackpoint would be an area where the Dell could use some help, but on the whole, they seemed solid to me. Some people don't care about that stuff anyway.

The T400 is a new design just like the Dell. Wouldn't it have to prove it's reliability as well or are we giving them a free pass? Was not the T400 released with a sub par keyboard? You're getting a better warranty on the Dell should any issues arise.

The OP seems to be unsure about which direction to go. For this reason I think because of Dell's return policy, which is clearly superior to Lenovo's, the e6400 might be worth consideration. Lenovo should be taken to task for having such a crappy return policy. Plus the the OP seemed to be considering the WXGA+ LED LCD, which Lenovo cannot seem to source right now, but Dell doesn't seem to have a problem with getting them.

I'm not saying one's better than the other, but given the parameters, the e6400 seems worth consideration. I think the e6400s from the Dell Outlet, especially when Dell is dangling that 20% off coupon as they seem to be doing a lot these days, offer excellent value. That's my 2¢ anyway.

[DeAnna]

Wow - I'm so glad I asked. Y'all have given me some serious things to consider. I'm ashamed to admit that I never even realized "highest-capable" = "native" and running lower made things blurry. So I just bumped my T41P up to 1400 x 1050, but instead of immediately rejecting the tiny print like before, I went ahead and bumped up the dpi as well and rebooted. It is readable, and everything is definitely crisper... and from what Fred says, Vista can do even better. Cool.

That's not to say that I've completely decided to choose higher resolution over LED. The (supposed) longevity of LED before dimming still has its appeal too. But I'm still spooked by the bad reports, and the ability to utilize the + is a critical factor, and I learned something important.

[DeAnna]

As for the CPU question...
The advice to put the $50 toward the faster drive is also interesting... I had thought I'd leave it as a future easy upgrade, but not if it'll be a bottleneck from the start, defeating the purpose of a great CPU, memory, etc.

So, is the sweet spot is actually the P8600 (2.40) with the 7200rpm drive rather than the P8700 (2.53) with a 5400 drive, even though drives are more upgradeable?

[DeAnna]

Based on your excellent outline of what you will be doing with your new T400, I ask: are you completely committed to a 64-bit OS at this point? Or could it wait?

If you can run a 32-bit OS awhile longer, my suggestion is to go with a P8600 / 3GB ram / WXGA w/CCFL / 160GB 7200rpm hard drive / Win XP. This is a great configuration which I believe will make you very happy and serve your needs ideally. It's future proofed to the point that it could be enjoyed until about six months or so after the release of Windows 7 and the advent of SP1 for that OS. At that point (this is my plan) you could then increase your ram to 4GB, choose Win7 64-bit, perform a clean install and be good as new.

Now to address your question about display resolution, I like the WXGA on my T400 and find it every bit as bright, clean and crisp as my WXGA+. While I do understand that there are a lot of critical reports, and I too would like Lenovo to get serious and upgrade display quality, in no way do I find these bad at all for that matter, and I'm very picky. However that's not to say that some may not have received bad or defective displays. In my case the display is very satisfying. As far as going to the 2.53GHz processor it's a waste of money, for $55 you get the 7200rpm hard drive which truly makes a difference. I also think that Windows 7 is well worth skipping over Vista, and once 7 has been out long enough to get it's first service pack, then it will be ready for prime time. Having tested and used Vista & the RC candidate of Win7 as secondary OS's most recently, my personal choice is 7 hands down. However you may already be using Vista and be fine with that.
...

Thank you, Archer, and I'm envious!

The feedback on your screens is a huge help. My only real attraction to the LEDs was the longevity, but I'm not even sure that's as predictable as they're suggesting...?

As for the OS, no, I have not yet run Vista, and up until a few nights ago, XP was my choice (preinstalled via downgrade rights in Windows Vista Business...) for sure planning to upgrade to Windows 7 whenever...

But after I read about the performance benefits of going 64 bit, I thought I'd go for it, and order 2 GB on one DIMM, and install 2 more of my own (great sale on crucial's 2GB sticks at Newegg). Does that sound good?

I also noticed that they started adding as a choice:

Recovery DVD:
[*]None
[*] Microsoft Windows XP Professional US English RDVD [add $0.00]

... to the configurator, regardless of OS choice. I figured I had nothing to lose by going with the 64-bit business, since it's the same price as Vista w/ the XP downgrade pre-installed. It's definitely not something I'm real confident about though, so if there are holes in this plan, y'all let me know!

Hopefully I've covered some of your questions and remain open for more.

Cheers...

(by the way I'm a huge advocate / user of Ubuntu)

[DeAnna]

I've tried several and a e6500 too. The keyboard and trackpoint would be an area where the Dell could use some help, but on the whole, they seemed solid to me. Some people don't care about that stuff anyway.

The T400 is a new design just like the Dell. Wouldn't it have to prove it's reliability as well or are we giving them a free pass? Was not the T400 released with a sub par keyboard? You're getting a better warranty on the Dell should any issues arise.

The OP seems to be unsure about which direction to go. For this reason I think because of Dell's return policy, which is clearly superior to Lenovo's, the e6400 might be worth consideration. Lenovo should be taken to task for having such a crappy return policy. Plus the the OP seemed to be considering the WXGA+ LED LCD, which Lenovo cannot seem to source right now, but Dell doesn't seem to have a problem with getting them.

I'm not saying one's better than the other, but given the parameters, the e6400 seems worth consideration. I think the e6400s from the Dell Outlet, especially when Dell is dangling that 20% off coupon as they seem to be doing a lot these days, offer excellent value. That's my 2¢ anyway.

Thanks, Fred. The e6400s are apparently really good machines for sure. A friend of mine has one and loves it. (He had a T23 for travel before, but he's actually using the e6400 as his primary machine now. They do seem to be very solid, he loves the display, and even the keyboard satisfies him.

I'm sticking with the Thinkpad for a few personal reasons, but Lenovo's lack of WXGA+ w/ LED is pretty hard to excuse, considering the hype. I wish they would at least let us order one and accept a wait if we chose.

[Brad]

I have heard that when popular options are not listed on the website for configuration a call to the sales line may find these options available to the telephone sales force.

I would call the sales department the next time they are open and ask about the LCD you want. You may be surprised to find that it is in fact available for order.

Brad

[ZaZ]

The advice to put the $50 toward the faster drive is also interesting

When doing everyday stuff, the hard drive is almost always the bottleneck. Stuff like Office, Movies, Internet, etc., don't really push the CPU enough to where you'd notice a difference.

[archer6]

The T400 is a new design just like the Dell.

This is false. The T400 is an evolution of the T series, a decades old design with a vast history of reliability and durability. A design and computer that has evolved and been refined like a Mercedes, with incremental improvements along the way. I have purchased new, every ThinkPad in my signature and more. I have used a T series as my primary work computer since 2000. The exemplary performance, reliability, and durability I have experienced has been far better than many of the other brands that I have bought just for the fun of it, to see what they were like. At no time have I encountered another brand as good as a ThinkPad. The list of machines I have purchased brand new (from 2000 to the present time) for comparison is vast, just a few: Sony, Apple, Acer, Asus, Panasonic, HP, Dell, Gateway, Fujitsu, Samsung, and Toshiba.

Was not the T400 released with a sub par keyboard?

No it was not, it was a lightweight keyboard that proved in field use to require more support so as to give it the solid feel of prior ThinkPads. Lenovo took care of that right away. And it was not a failure nor did it cause the machine to be unusable, it was simply a preference of long standing ThinkPad users to have a stiffer more solid feel. Functionally there was nothing wrong with it.

You're getting a better warranty on the Dell should any issues arise.

I have no idea where you got this but it's simply not true. There is no other laptop manufacturer with the depth and breadth of resources available to the customer on their web site as Lenovo has on theirs. Not only that they have great turnaround times at the service center when a computer must go in for attention or warranty repairs.

The OP seems to be unsure about which direction to go. For this reason I think because of Dell's return policy, which is clearly superior to Lenovo's, the e6400 might be worth consideration. Lenovo should be taken to task for having such a crappy return policy.

False. I don't know where you are getting your info. If you read the the Dell return policy it's the exact same as Lenovo's and if you choose not to believe this, here is the source so that you can read it yourself.
http://support.dell.com/support/topics/ ... l=en&s=gen

Respectfully, I am learning you are a huge Dell lover, you might consider posting true information. Especially if you are going to advise others.

Thank You

[archer6]

My only real attraction to the LEDs was the longevity, but I'm not even sure that's as predictable as they're suggesting...?

I have both the CCFL displays and the LED backlit displays, not only on my ThinkPads but other brands of laptops as well. I've also done a lot of research on the longevity of the LED backlight choice. According to what I've read, the claim of much longer life is something that is largely a marketing tactic which many computer manufacturers have adopted. As far as a wide margin of superiority I'm not finding that to be the case. Personally I'm taking a neutral position until there is more hard data available as time goes by. After all, LED backlighting is still somewhat new in the laptop arena, and therefore there is not much statistical data thus far.

As for the OS, no, I have not yet run Vista, and up until a few nights ago, XP was my choice (preinstalled via downgrade rights in Windows Vista Business...) for sure planning to upgrade to Windows 7 whenever... after I read about the performance benefits of going 64 bit, I thought I'd go for it, and order 2 GB on one DIMM, and install 2 more of my own (great sale on crucial's 2GB sticks at Newegg). Does that sound good?

All of my main mission critical ThinkPads are centered on XP. My daily work requires a fast workstation class ThinkPad, thus I use either my fully maxed out T60p, or my fully loaded W500. I do 3D, industrial, aerospace design work. In addition I do other resource intensive work, all on 32- bit XP with ease. And yet that said, I plan to move up to 64-bit Windows 7 once it's proven itself. Unless you are having some problems getting your work done with XP I would strongly encourage you to stay with it, then migrate to Windows 7 after it's in the hands of day to day users and debugged by Microsoft. To move to Vista at this late stage would only consume your time and money. As far as ordering your new computer when I've ordered mine this year, I simply choose the choice "Genuine Windows XP Professional (preinstalled via downgrade rights in Windows Vista Business)". The computer ships with XP installed, and a Vista COA label on the bottom of it, therefore you are then entitled to the upgrade price on Windows 7 (at least as of the latest reports I've read).

Finally for clarification in case you did not read my prior post, the information you were given about the Dell return policy was false, they have the exact same policy as Lenovo. Nor does Dell have a better warranty policy. Their web site explains it all, and I've posted a link in my post above.

I hope this info helps you in your decision making process.

Cheers...

[ZaZ]

The T400 is a new design because it's not same as the old one. New keyboards, new optical drives, new LCDs, etc., sounds like a new design to me. Perhaps not as radical as Dell, but a new design nonetheless.

A "lightweight keyboard that proved in field use to require more support" sounds like sub par to me.

You are getting a three year warranty on all e6400s. The quality of the warranty is debatable I guess. Hasn't Lenovo outsourced their Depot repair to Selectron anyway? Most ThinkPads, with the exception of some pre-configured models come, come with a one year warranty. Plus the upgrade to on-site warranty is $99. On-site warranties tend to be better in my experience. Three years of on-site for a ThinkPad is $220. I'd say Dell's service site is good enough for most even if it's not as in-depth as Lenovos. You can plug in your service tag to get downloads, disassembly guides and manuals. You don't get system update, but I don't use it so it has no value to me.

I bought a Dell Latitude recently from the Dell Outlet. I got it as sort of an impulse buy. I decided I'd rather make an IPS R60 so I returned it. Not only was I not charged a re-stocking fee, Dell even picked up the shipping. I don't know, maybe I got lucky. The only way I've seen anyone get out the Lenovo restocking fee is to purchase a newer more expensive ThinkPad. The link you posted is for Dell Home and not Dell Small Business where I got my Latitude. I suspect the policy is different over there. I've never heard of anyone being charged a restocking fee for a Latitude.

It's not a zero sum game, both can be good notebooks. I've had six ThinkPads in a row either from work or my own purchases. At the time I started buying them myself in the T4x days, I'd say ThinkPads were clearly superior to Dell, but I think the gap has narrowed greatly. When the time comes for me to buy a new notebook, Lenovo is going to have to earn my business. I'd say Latitudes, especially from the Dell Outlet, offer very good value when you factor in the longer warranty, better return policy, price, etc., but that doesn't mean the T400 can't be a good notebook too.

[ljwobker]

On your performance question: the single most relevant thing you can do to improve performance for 99% of applications is to get an SSD instead of a spinning disk. I recently moved my T60p to an Intel X-25M, and it made the machine "feel" so much faster it's truly difficult to put into words.

It's to the point when I borrow co-workers laptops to do anything, I invariably think there is something wrong with their machine until I remember that I'm waiting on the spinning disk.

Do some research on SSDs as they are somewhat new, but the current generation of drives from OCZ and Intel are exceptionally good (I've used both) and I'm sure there are probably other vendors who are good as well.

[archer6]

I too am an advocate for solid state drives (SSD). I have four of my ThinkPads equipped with them. However my suggestion would be to wait before you invest in these expensive drives. Since they are relatively new technology, the costs are still very high for the capacity you get, and in typical fashion the prices are just beginning to come down at a faster pace. For example one of the fastest SSDs of the SLC type is the MemoRight GT series. I have installed and tested (now using) two of these in one of my ThinkPads, in another I have the Intel X-25M and it's very slow by comparison, however at the time I purchased these three, the Intel (80GB) was $1000 and the MemoRights (128GB) were $3,000. So you can see how pricey they are. Today for example, the MemoRight price is already down to $1899 and that's in just about six months. So I would highly encourage you to wait as prices in this economy are bound to fall even faster, then you will get a much better return on your investment. It's simply too early to justify the prices unless you have a large budget. I think that the current suggestion i offered earlier will be so much faster than your current ThinkPad you will be very happy. And save a lot of money.

Cheers...

[DeAnna]

Thanks, guys.

I actually already ordered it, before I went out of town Monday. : )

I decided to go ahead and get the discrete graphics, since it's the one thing I couldn't upgrade later on, in case I needed it. I also got the WXGA + CCFL screen, the 2.40 GHz processor, and the 7200 rpm drive, as y'all advised.

Here are the specs:

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8600 (2.40GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2) 25W
OS: Windows Vista Business 64
Recovery DVD: Microsoft Windows XP Professional US English RDVD
14.1 WXGA+ TFT, w/ CCFL Backlight
ATI Mobility Radeon 3470 with 256MB
2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM) (I'm adding 2 more from Newegg)
UltraNav (TrackPoint and TouchPad)
160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
CD-RW/DVD-ROM Combo 24X/24X/24X/8X Max, Ultrabay Slim (Serial ATA)
Express Card Slot & 7-1 Media Card Reader
Intel WiFi Link 5300 (AGN) with My WiFi Technology
4 cell Li-Ion Battery

I was pleasantly surprised, because when I ordered it on Monday, they said it would ship in 11 business days, but I got an email yesterday, saying it was shipped on Tuesday.

Thank you all again, for all your help!

[archer6]

Thanks, guys.

I actually already ordered it, before I went out of town Monday. : )

I decided to go ahead and get the discrete graphics, since it's the one thing I couldn't upgrade later on, in case I needed it. I also got the WXGA + CCFL screen, the 2.40 GHz processor, and the 7200 rpm drive, as y'all advised.

Congratulations on your new ThinkPad!

After you've had a chance to put some time on it, be sure to let us know how you like it.

Cheers...