t400s LCD Screen Feedback

[finnp]

I just got a new t400s a week or so ago and I noticed that the screen, though incredibly bright, has extremely poor black levels. If you set the background to black its basically a dark grey which gets noticably brighter towards the bottom of the screen (when viewing straight on). I've tried to mess around with card settings and turning the brightness down to about 1/3, but it's still bad.

I looked up the part number and it turns out that its a screen made by lenovo: FRU 42T0636... A bit deceiving since most reviews were on machines that had samsung displays and were positive. Seems like they did a bit of a bait and switch...

Does anyone have this same screen? Are you noticing the same thing? Not sure if I got a lemon or not...

Finn

[AvalonXIII]

When you use a program that doesn't read deep into the code of hardware, then the manufacturer will appear as Lenovo. The only way to make sure of the manufacturer is to open up the laptop to see. I can assure you, Lenovo does not make screen for themselves. Did you use the exact software that the reviewers use to see the LCD manufacturer?

[twister6]

Get PC Wizard 2009 freeware which does detailed analysis and let you know every part in your laptop. I think all T400s use the same display vendor. When I run PC Wizard 2k9, it shows display as "LTN141BT08001" part.

Don't worry you are not alone with your disappointment about the screen. Its horrible LOL!!! I'm coming off 5+ years of IPS screens (still have T42 and T60). This is TN screen with a typical narrow vertical angle where colors get washed out as you slightly move up/down. Contrast is not good either since you can't get true black color. Once thing to improve colors since they are too bluish, go to Intel Graphics property box, Color Correction and set Brightness of Blue to -20. That helps a little bit.

[Puppy]

I just got a new t400s a week or so ago and I noticed that the screen, though incredibly bright, has extremely poor black levels

This is typical for all new Lenovo product line. You should post your complain here http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=259 Lenovo representatives have to be told over and over that the current display quality is unacceptable for ThinkPad notebook class.

[ssd_thinkpad]

Not sure if I got a lemon or not...

For you it maybe a lemon, for lenovo its an average display. But they know they can do better. If you prefer a good display, you will not be happy with any T400. The T500 WSXGA+ displays have better contrast but they do not have good viewing angles. Only the tablets have nice displays, but they are so small and comparably heavy. The former top of the line thinkpad x300 series has a far more worse display if that does make you feel better - I got one of these and returned it immediately.

Ever read about the amazon kindle? It has a brighness level of ... "0" ! And is still readable. Contrast is the specification value you are most interested in, it is the difference between black and white. If you increase your brightness but in the same ratio the black increases more to be gray, the contrast ratio stays the same. Not saying that looking into high nit areas like the sun can damage your eyesight.

If I'd be in your place and a good display would be crucial, I'd either buy a docking station, keyboard, mouse, external monitor and use your thinkpad at least on one place with a good display or return it for a notebook with a good display.

[twister6]

... and the notebook with good quality display would be? I can honestly say, from the experience of owning a number of Thinkpads and brief use of other laptops - T400s would have been Perfect laptop if it wasn't for the screen. I went to Best Buy a few days ago and looked at every laptop from Dell to Sony to Asus to HP to Compaq and Toshiba. All have glossy highly reflective displays which help with contrast, but reflection is extremely annoying and vertical angle is still poor example of TN technology. The whole point of laptop is portability and not sitting in a docking station with external monitor. IPS/FlexView is a thing of the past, but there are other technologies far superior to TN and it’s a shame Lenovo is not offering it as an option because there is clearly a demand for it and people are willing to pay premium for quality display.

[Puppy]

... and the notebook with good quality display would be?

Refurbished T60p UXGA

IPS/FlexView is a thing of the past, but there are other technologies far superior to TN

No past, current IPS display technology is still the best LCD technology available and there is cheaper e-IPS edition suitable for laptops. There is nothing better. Notebook market has returned ten years back regarding display quality. My guess is there must be a secret deal among notebook vendors that noone would try to (re)introduce better displays than the horrible crap they sell now.

[ssd_thinkpad]

I vote for SPVA panels. They offer the highest contrast ratio among all panels - SIPS may have more vivid colors, I use my computer for business purposes and therefore it is not aimed at watching videos.

I considered a T400 / T500 and bought an x301. Money was no object. I gave it back and bought a used T60 with Flexview. Its display is far from being perfect but I can use it when on the road. I couldn't use the x301 display for 15 minutes. The T60 is so heavy that it is a burden when on the road. But it is for my eye healthiness. And there is no alternative, the only one is an x200/x200s with hand-changed IPS/SPVA panel inside or the tablets but their vertical display size is comparable to a 10 inch 4:3 display!

I agree that both the x301 and the x400s are perfect notebooks - having the x301 in my hands I couldn't believe the masterpiece of engineerig. Everything feels so great. But the hell do I pay for that with my eyesight

[Puppy]

I vote for SPVA panels. They offer the highest contrast ratio among all panels

Latest H-IPS panels have similar or even better contrast ratio than S-PVA (see "Various Myths, Scenes, Observatios, Comments" paragraph here http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1396129 ). Both H-IPS and S-PVA needs too much energy. That's why LG.Philips has introduced e-IPS panels with reduced quality (still far better than TN, of course) power consumption and similar pricing like TN.

[ssd_thinkpad]

Latest H-IPS panels have similar or even better contrast ratio than S-PVA (see "Various Myths, Scenes, Observatios, Comments" paragraph here http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1396129 ). Both H-IPS and S-PVA needs too much energy. That's why LG.Philips has introduced e-IPS panels with reduced quality (still far better than TN, of course) power consumption and similar pricing like TN.

I was not aware of H-IPS panels. The monitor from the link only has very low 800:1 contrast ratio. Eizo had monitors with static 1500:1 contrast ratio, now still monitors with 1000:1 contrast ratio.

VA panels have very low viewing angles that's why improved PVA and S-PVA panels habe multiple "additional pixels (sorry, do not know how you name it)" that point in all different viewing angles. So the user sees from all sights very good - he sees different "pixels". You can see nice examples of these "monitors with multiple pixels" in more modern cars like porsche and mercedes where the driver sees on the display the map guide while his wife is watching a movie - on the same display!

I'd vote for a SPVA display with reduced viewing angles - a lot of energy could be saved there and I do not want to have a notebook with 179 degree viewing angles for privacy reasons alone.

[twister6]

So is there any hope for one of these vendors who manufacture SPVA or H-IPS to make 14" SXGA+ or SXGA panel in the near future to replace T400s? I would love to see that!!!

[ssd_thinkpad]

So is there any hope for one of these vendors who manufacture SPVA or H-IPS to make 14" SXGA+ or SXGA panel in the near future to replace T400s? I would love to see that!!!

SPVA or H-IPS - no. I'd think an eIPS is more likely as it consumes less power. And maybe cheaper, too. Crappy displays sell good - lenovo wants to sell large volumes now, the time where lenovo "aimed" to be the solution for high quality buyers is over.

What lenovo does in the future is like looking in a glass cubicle. The T400s is only available with integrated gpu - that can leads us to
- they profit from a certain contract that they provide intel gpus only
- they do not want to have chips that produce more heat as the thin notebook can not handle heat that good
- they want to extend the hours a notebook can run

If they would aim for the last possible thing, lenovo would take the eips route as it is using less power.

[finnp]

Thanks for replies. My main reason for getting the t400s was portability, but I'm not sure I can live with this display given the amount of money I spent on this thing. Are there any comparable lightweight laptops out there that have better screens?

[zenit]

Thanks for replies. My main reason for getting the t400s was portability, but I'm not sure I can live with this display given the amount of money I spent on this thing. Are there any comparable lightweight laptops out there that have better screens?

Macbook pro 13" and 15" are pretty much your only options if you want a quality display. Both have 700:1 measured contrast ratios - look at reviews on notebookcheck. In person both look great.

And the t400s screen is a good improvement over WXGA+ LED screen found on T400, which was absolutely terrible, although I seem to have the LT141DEQ8B00 screen which is different from what everybody else seem to have gotten so far.

[osamede]

Are latest buyers of T400s these days seeing any decent screen quality or still the same?

[beaker]

I was finally able to compare a demo model T400s vs. x60s ultralight vs. T60 side by side. IMHO the T400s is a step up from an X60s despite the fact that the x60s has a 156:1 contrast ratio vs the T400s 98:1 contrast ratio (source notebookcheck.de). The display is fine for web/programming/office. I also used a picture from a website to compare the x60s vs. the T400s and in my opinion the picture looked better on the T400s. I compared the x60s and the t400s at full brightness. When my friend's t60 was compared against the x60s and t400s and the picture looked WAY better on the t60 even unplugged.

The T400s keyboard was "squishy", but if the T61? keyboard is available that could compensate for it. Overall I think the laptop is OK. I will definitely buy one when they are closer to $1000 because that is the value I feel the laptop is worth. If the contrast ratio was better and the keyboard had the laptop quality of old, I would not have a problem buying it now.

[duffy]

Did your friend's T60 have a 15" Flexview display?

[beaker]

Did your friend's T60 have a 15" Flexview display?

He has a flexview screen.

[duffy]

That explains a lot.

I've been on the fence whether to purchase a T400s or not. The next machine I plan on purchasing will have a mix of office related work mixed in with Hulu, Netflix, etc. on my off hours. So I'm hesitant to pick up the T400s if the display is going to look terrible. Unfortunately, I have no way to give one a test drive. Thanks for the impressions.

[osamede]

That explains a lot.

I've been on the fence whether to purchase a T400s or not. The next machine I plan on purchasing will have a mix of office related work mixed in with Hulu, Netflix, etc. on my off hours. So I'm hesitant to pick up the T400s if the display is going to look terrible. Unfortunately, I have no way to give one a test drive. Thanks for the impressions.

Ditto here. I dont know why they couldnt offer a top notch screen on this one. You end up wondering if you can hold your nose or not, which is not the sort of factor you are looking for at this price range.

[textpxy]

That explains a lot.

I've been on the fence whether to purchase a T400s or not. The next machine I plan on purchasing will have a mix of office related work mixed in with Hulu, Netflix, etc. on my off hours. So I'm hesitant to pick up the T400s if the display is going to look terrible. Unfortunately, I have no way to give one a test drive. Thanks for the impressions.

Sadly, I'd pass on the T400s. A laptop with a bad screen will just give you migrane headaches.

Get a used T6x from eBay with the IPS screen. You'll get a **MUCH** better laptop overall, and it'll cost you less.