T410 switchable graphics?

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blackomegax
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T410 switchable graphics?

#1 Post by blackomegax » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:28 am

Everything on lenovo's website is indicating the T410 (non-s) has switchable graphics.
But i remember reading on a lenovo blog that only the 410s would have switchable graphics.

(also, i find it rather funny the 410s isn't available with anything but integrated....)

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#2 Post by dr_st » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:16 am

blackomegax wrote:But i remember reading on a lenovo blog that only the 410s would have switchable graphics.
Must have been a mistake. Just like with the current generation, the T410 is expected to have switchable graphics, while the T410s, which is really more of an X-series model, will have only integrated.
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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#3 Post by greenlakechris » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:27 am

That sounds backwards to what I've just been reading.

If you go to Lenovo.com > Home > Products > Laptops & netbooks > ThinkPad laptops > T Series, and browse to the Compare tab, it says that:
  • T410 - NO switchable graphics
  • T410s - switchable graphics
This matches what I've seen after visiting the "confgure" links for both systems.
Last edited by greenlakechris on Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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blackomegax
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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#4 Post by blackomegax » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:30 am

I see that, but the tech specs tab lists it as switchable, as does the "view models" for T410 (at the top)

I know lenovo's never been particularly accurate, but this is downright confusing.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#5 Post by Harryc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:34 am

Just went to Lenovo.com and looked at the models- here's what it says

T410 - Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD - AMT

T410s - Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD

The Intel-AMT means it has switchable graphics....so the T410 has it. dr_st is correct.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#6 Post by greenlakechris » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:37 am

Oh, you're right! the Tech Specs tab is different than the Compare tab.

If you go to the "Elite" T400, it has only one graphics option: "NVIDIA NVS 3100m Graphics 256MB DDR3 with AM" and says nothing about "switchable".

Over on Inside the Box: CES – New ThinkPad Roundup, Matt Kohut replied to a similar question:
Ghost — only T410s will have switchable. The rest will be discrete only or integrated only.
But Harryc sounds like he knows more about hardware than I, and Matt K. has been editing that post as he finds errors, so I'd keep checking or call Lenovo.
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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#7 Post by Harryc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:46 am

Well, now I am not sure. I looked up AMT and it refers to Intel Active management technology which is a management platform, not switchable graphics. So, if that is the case, then I'd guess that none of the current X10 models have switchable graphics...doesn't mean Lenovo won't release a model with it at some point.
http://www.intel.com/technology/platfor ... intel-amt/

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#8 Post by kintaro » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:56 am

Lenovo.com clearly says the T410 and T410s both have "nVidia switchable graphics". It makes no sense that any of these machines would have discrete (non-switchable) graphics considering there arrandale chips all have integrated gpus on them.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#9 Post by Harryc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:08 am

Link to the Lenovo statement please?

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#10 Post by kintaro » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:26 am

Harryc wrote:Link to the Lenovo statement please?
The page I was referring to is the page after you have selected the T series, where it shows you the models you can purchase. Oddly it's down right now on the main site, maybe due to them cleaning up conflicting information? It is however still up on the epp site.

Here's a screenshot I just took, read the descriptions of the T410 and T410s series.
http://www.k2w2.com/tseries.JPG

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#11 Post by kintaro » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:28 am

I figured out how to get past the page that's down on the main site. Here's a link: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/cont ... 825513BCED

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#12 Post by Harryc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:01 am

Ok I see what you are saying. It's interesting that it states 'switchable graphics' there, but if you go to order/customize a T410 for example, all it says is Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD - AMT. My question is for a T410, what nVidia graphics (GPU model) is onboard to switch to?

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#13 Post by kintaro » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:38 am

Harryc wrote:Ok I see what you are saying. It's interesting that it states 'switchable graphics' there, but if you go to order/customize a T410 for example, all it says is Intel Graphics Media Accelerator HD - AMT. My question is for a T410, what nVidia graphics (GPU model) is onboard to switch to?
My guess is that on the T410, you would have to select the high end model with the discrete graphics listed, and that it would be capable of switching to the integrated GPU in the core i5 processor.

As for the T410s, there doesn't appear to be an option with discrete graphics, so I'm a little confused on that. It is possible that they are all switchable, or it is possible that future models will come out with switchable graphics, or it is possible that there is an error somewhere in the information they show, and none of them are or will be switchable.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#14 Post by Harryc » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:16 pm

ah...so I think we're in agreement that the whole concept of switchable graphics is as clear as mud when it comes to the new 410/510 series :).

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#15 Post by blackomegax » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:28 pm

their live chat people have no clue.
their phone sales team has no clue.

only thing for sure is anything with an i7 rules out switchable as they don't contain the intel GPU

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#16 Post by bradhs » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:20 am

Not true about the i7... The i7 does have Integrated Graphics according to Intel's website:

http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43 ... LBPD,SLBPE

Look under Graphics Specifications and you will see Integrated Graphics Yes

I want to order one but don't want to wait 4 weeks..and..I don't want the Gobi WWAN card that cannot be removed from the T410 with discrete (NVIDIA) graphics..

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#17 Post by blackomegax » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:38 am

WWAN cards are usually removable, unless they switched to soldering them on?

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#18 Post by bradhs » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:45 am

But your paying the price for it... Spec a T410 integrated then do a discrete and it's over a $200 difference. Can't be that much more for discrete.
blackomegax wrote:WWAN cards are usually removable, unless they switched to soldering them on?

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#19 Post by amardeep » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:23 am

On http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthr ... 91&page=30 :

"I just got off the phone with them. According to Desmond at Lenovo, the T410 and T510 will have switchable graphics if ordered with the nVidia discrete video chip. Also, the T410s with switchable graphics won't be available until mid-February."

Should that be interpreted as meaning there are currently orderable T410s models which don't have switchable graphics ? The lenovo.com pages are quite confusing.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#20 Post by blackomegax » Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:36 am

well, the only t410s for sale right now does NOT have dedicated graphics
only the elite or whatever t410 does.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#21 Post by blackomegax » Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:28 am

Also, the canadian portal has, if you configure a T410, " nVidia SG 256MB, AMT". SG presumably being switchable graphics.
And the 410s is available with it there, too.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#22 Post by Vempele » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:28 am

blackomegax wrote:only thing for sure is anything with an i7 rules out switchable as they don't contain the intel GPU
Only the quads. The dual-core versions just have more cache and a better turbo boost than i5.
Last edited by Vempele on Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#23 Post by blackomegax » Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:08 pm

according to the tabook, there is zero mention of switchable graphics in the T410.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#24 Post by showergel » Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:34 pm

Take a look at: http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43560

The i7-620M has integrated graphics on-package. All it requires is an accompanying HM-55, HM-57, QM-57, or QS-57 chipset to provide the VGA/HDMI/DVI/etc output interface. I don't know if the PM-55 chipset will provide a passthrough interface to the LCD or not, better question for an engineer.

If you take a look at the i5-540M & i5-520M, they also have on-package graphics with the same chipset compatibility.

Now, I'm in USA and the T510 & T410s have been removed from the Lenovo.com store in the days since the series debuted at CES, so I can't say what configurable options are available on those models.

To recap it looks like, short a bad hardware/BIOS decision, the i5/i7 CPUs presently being used in thew the T410, according to Intel, all have on-package GPUs. It would make little sense for Lenovo to completely disable the GPUs in BIOS since every CPU package has a GPU on it, Lenovo would be paying Intel for useless silicon. Since all of the screenshots we've seen of the T410/T510 all have external DisplayPorts on them, they have to be making use of the appropriate chipsets.

Food for thought

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#25 Post by khtse » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:33 am

From http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=349
The T410s now has the option of either integrated or switchable graphics. Now you can get additional performance in a small form factor that won’t burn your lap. Unlike XP, Windows 7 can switch graphics modes on the fly.
Can't find it though, I remember reading somewhere last week that only T410s has switchable graphics option, not on T410 and T510. I might be wrong though.

Edited:

Okay, found it. It's in Chinese though: http://www.tpuser.idv.tw/wp/?p=336
在顯示功能方面,T410有兩種配置,首先是採用i5/i7內建的「GMA(Graphics Media Accelerator) HD」,或是使用nVidia的獨立顯示晶片Quadro NVS3100M。關於NVS3100所配備的顯示記憶體則有兩種容量,256MB或512MB。前一代的T400在獨立顯示晶片機種上支援「雙顯卡切換模式」,但T410則取消了此項功能,換言之即使購買NVS3100機種,也無法切換到GMA HD。倒是在強調機動力的「T410s」上,為了延長電池續航力,還是有支援NVS3100與GMA HD的「雙顯卡切換模式」。
Roughly it said switchable graphic is a battery life saving feature, which will feature only on T410s. It doesn't mention why it is not available on T410 and T510, perhaps their battery life is good enough?

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#26 Post by Navck » Sun Jan 24, 2010 1:53 am

Ordered a T410 with discrete graphics, I will confirm if it has it when it arrives. If it doesn't, thats false advertising on their side. I doubt thats going to happen guys, because legally you're left right in the open for angry customers.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#27 Post by blackomegax » Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:59 am

yes, it would be false advertising, but otoh, lenovo has no clue what they're selling.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#28 Post by Navck » Sun Jan 24, 2010 2:01 pm

Here, lets think for a moment
The i5s and i7-620 *will* have intergrated graphics, period. Thats Intel's part and Apple wanted their Arrandale processors without that part. So we already know its *on there*. NVIDIA wants in on this as much as they can because ATI already took a step into this market.

Second part is because of speculation, wild mass guessing and a little inconsistency plus someone's word, people think there *will not* be switchable graphics. Come on, even Lenovo's site says it and if your T410 doesn't get one, you call em back and say that the site had it and refund it, thats it!

I'll be the first person to dispel any rumors when I get my T410, especially with what I believe is caused from speculation and incompetence from new owners.

And I will definitely be able to determine "physical quality" seeing that I have a 15" T43 that is now 4 years old and going strong. If anything I'm going to know that the T410 I ordered will be have structural improvement over the T43.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#29 Post by blackomegax » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:40 pm

this isn't really about the CPU's having the silicon, its rather or not lenovo enables it.

word on the street so far from people with T410's in hand, say there no support, and no menu for it in the PM app.

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Re: T410 switchable graphics?

#30 Post by Navck » Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:26 pm

I'm very sure that users can be much more incompetent than they appear to be.

I'm also pretty sure Lenovo would be shooting their selves in the foot and leaving a gaping hole for a potential class action lawsuit if they were wrong on their website.

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