Thinkpads Forum

We finally got out new T410's in for review, one model with integrated graphics and another with dedicated. We also got the 6 and 9-cell batteries for each model. What do you guys want to see covered? No request is too large or too small, as a longtime ThinkPad fan I understand we are somewhat of a strange breed and can be very picky about notebooks. Nothing really helps us except seeing the most detailed information possible before we purchase something

I probably won't be able to add some of the more in-depth stuff into the published review but I can easily accommodate any question through the forums or if you want to shoot me an email. I already have one of the models apart to inspect the completely redesigned chassis and keyboard, so if you want super-high resolution internal pictures from our light tent let me know

Personally, I want to see how the new screen fares... Some wider vertical viewing angles would be nice.

Yes, screen details are much needed.
overall build quality/rigidness compared to T61/T400?
Does the combined headphone/mic jack support the industry standard apple iphone headset type headsets?
dedicated gpu heat/noise from a relative perspective to say, intergrated, and the T400.
any buzzing from cpu activity.
extreme wifi environment test. (long distance/weak signal)
im curious to see how many watts the power manager reports the system using battery, with max power savings and dim screen, while on wifi. (intel vs nvidia on this, too)


PS, be sure to cover the "switchable" graphics being a lack there-of despite clear advertisement otherwise, publicly in the review. (if no one calls them out they'll never learn....)

Power Manager can read wattage readings while on AC? O_O

Hopefully they have better than 6-bit panels in the new ones... I can see the dithering on mine.

Confirmation of switchable graphics (or the lack thereof) would also be nice...

Topics I would like covered:
* build quality as compared to older generations including how the lid feels now that the roll-cage has been removed,
* keyboard flex or hopefully lack thereof and overall typing experience as compared to previous generations,
* quality of used materials,
* switchable graphics or lack thereof,
* battery charging thresholds or lack thereof,
* power consumption showed by Power Manager in each model under possibly similar circumstances (on batteries with half-bright display, energy saving profile and wifi on),
* screen quality, brightness, contrast, viewing angles,
* fan noise and differences between integrated and dedicated versions.

That's from the top of my head. And of course, a lot of high resolution, clear pictures showing every detail. Insides too.

Thanks a lot!

Colonel O'Neill wrote:Power Manager can read wattage readings while on AC? O_O

Hopefully they have better than 6-bit panels in the new ones... I can see the dithering on mine.

Confirmation of switchable graphics (or the lack thereof) would also be nice...

sorry, off the wall as in "off"(away from) the wall. not "from" the wall.

*fixes*

the different levels of the fan and their RPM

temps

Tell us if TPFanControl works

If you can unudervolt the CPU [Rmclock software]


The wattage of the battery when everything is idling and you disable all power-consuming in the bios [modem, wifi, SD...]

If a recent linux distro can detect all the Hardware


thx

In addition to what has been asked above about heat/noise issues, I wonder what results could be achieved with artic_squirrel's approach. It'd be nice to know how much noise the new models make out of the box and about the software they're compatible with but it's the results that matter (fanless temperatures and so on). By the way, I could probably find the answer on the web but what power-saving features does the new hardware pack (such as Core2Duo's "super low frequency mode")?

I would like to know what speeds could one can get with the eSATA port, if one can boot from it and if one can read SMART data through it. And I'd like to have the same information for the Ultrabay as well.

What resolutions are supported over the displayport with intel graphics on the Intel graphics models (assuming they even have a digital video output)?

Are the screens bright enough for outside use? I gather they're all LED-lit but I don't take that as as guarantee...

Finally, I know this is a tricky issue but what of the sound quality of the combo jack? Is it noisy? Is it too wimpy for studio headphones and such?

Definitely, lot's of power and battery details. Hopefully, with wattage reports for several different power modes. Please compare to the T400.

By any chance do you have an ultrabay battery, it would be nice to see if Lenovo has addressed how the system uses it. Specifically, does it still run the bay battery all the way down before switching to the main battery. (See this post for more discussion) http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ay+battery

Thanks!

Regarding the switchable graphics, it has the same interface as before, prompts you with the fancy pop-up boxes to tell you what it is, but when activated does nothing at all.

1. Keyboard - will it make cracking sounds while typing (like brand new T400)?
2. Screen
3. Quality - is this the same cheap T400 plastic on palm rest and all over the screen?
4. Speakers - are they the same as on T400
5. Boot time with 5400, 7200 and SSD
6. When you open the laptop and hold it from the top how good (tight) are the locks between screen and other part of T410? Does the keyboard goes down under the it's own weight? (hope you understand what I mean )

personally I would love to see some kind of quantitative measurements for laptop screens, in the same way notebookcheck.net does it. Brightness measurements, actual contrast ratio, etc. Would be awesome if you guys could provide those.

I was *this* close to placing an order today and then I saw this post! Any chance that before you put something formal up you could quickly answer two questions?

1) What's the Windows Experience Index subscore for graphics and gaming graphics on the integrated and discrete models?
2) What's the fan noise\heat difference like between the integrated and discrete models? (Nothing scientific, I'm just looking for a "gut feel" kind of observation)

Thanks!

sqldba wrote:I was *this* close to placing an order today and then I saw this post! Any chance that before you put something formal up you could quickly answer two questions?

1) What's the Windows Experience Index subscore for graphics and gaming graphics on the integrated and discrete models?
2) What's the fan noise\heat difference like between the integrated and discrete models? (Nothing scientific, I'm just looking for a "gut feel" kind of observation)

Thanks!

I will check these two things first thing tomorrow morning and get back. The rest I should be able to knock off either in the review or when I am free after the review is done.

zenit wrote:personally I would love to see some kind of quantitative measurements for laptop screens, in the same way notebookcheck.net does it. Brightness measurements, actual contrast ratio, etc. Would be awesome if you guys could provide those.

A proper light meter that is calibrated and certified to take screen brightness measurements is on the list of upcoming test gear, but it won't be here in time for the published review. That said if we have the T410s still in office when it shows up I will start grabbing readings to start building a database to compare against.

Any idea when we will be able to get the review? I'm so looking forward to it.

Looking at early next week I think. Just think how much time there is in battery tests alone... 2 batteries for both notebooks... that is like a diet coke addiction spanning an entire day.

Numbers for the T410 with dedicated:

6.8
5.9
5.0
6.0
5.9

Numbers for the T410 with integrated:

6.8
5.9
4.5
5.1
5.9


Noise levels are more annoying on the T410 with dedicated graphics. For those of you who have not heard the newest "leading edge of blade shaped like owls wing" fans yet, they traded a lower pitched sound with a higher pitched sound. I want to say in overall loudness it went down a bit but the higher pitched sound travels more and I find more annoying. The T410 with dedicated graphics seems to run the fan faster and longer when under stress, so for me the dedicated model is more annoying

I haven't gotten as far as recording temps so it might just be an overactive fan assembly.

this is specific and hasn't been covered by anyone or lenovo, what are the viewing angles of the webcam? can you post a sample picture and/or video from it?

Just wanted to let you guys know I didn't forget about you

Busy this weekend (something about a soccer match) but Monday I will start knocking off your questions and getting the inside shots in our light tent.

any updates here? or too much soccer?

Sorry for the delay guys... the snow has NOT been friendly

blackomegax wrote:Yes, screen details are much needed.
overall build quality/rigidness compared to T61/T400?
Does the combined headphone/mic jack support the industry standard apple iphone headset type headsets?
dedicated gpu heat/noise from a relative perspective to say, intergrated, and the T400.
any buzzing from cpu activity.
extreme wifi environment test. (long distance/weak signal)
im curious to see how many watts the power manager reports the system using battery, with max power savings and dim screen, while on wifi. (intel vs nvidia on this, too)


PS, be sure to cover the "switchable" graphics being a lack there-of despite clear advertisement otherwise, publicly in the review. (if no one calls them out they'll never learn....)

Build quality is addressed in my main review:

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.a ... nkpad+t410

Headphone jack I will check tonight with my ipod touch/iphone headset.

I talked about the fan noise in my review. Basically the "loudness" has gone down but the pitch of the sound has increased. For me it seems to have become more annoying because I am more sensitive to higher pitched noises. I have both integrated and dedicated models on hand. Under load the dedicated model is more vocal but not by a huge amount. Both ramp up at the same time but the dedicated model seems to get higher case temperatures in the same situation.

I have not noticed any CPU whine. Actually I have not noticed it on any Core i5 models of late. My credentials include getting driven insane by CRT flybacks and by my T60 whine of that means anything

Tonight when I check the iPhone headset I will do a basic test in my neighborhood. I have wifi networks going all the way down my street and some notebooks pick up networks better than others. I will have the T410, my T60, my Dell D630 and a Latitude Z on hand to do a comparison on.

Charging the batteries right now cause they were chilling at 0% for the past few days. Taking material out of my T410 and T400 review for right now the power consumption was 9-10 watts for the integrated model and 11-13 watts for the dedicated model T410. Now compare this against the T400 which consumed as little as 8.5 watts (the switchable graphics model) under the same conditions (70% brightness, wifi on, and balanced/switching cpu mode). I have noticed that none of the Core i5 notebooks have had lower power consumption than their predecessors. I will fill in the watt values for min brightness/max power savings when I get home.

Colonel O'Neill wrote:Power Manager can read wattage readings while on AC? O_O

Hopefully they have better than 6-bit panels in the new ones... I can see the dithering on mine.

Confirmation of switchable graphics (or the lack thereof) would also be nice...

Neither of the T410's we had in house for the review measured amps/watts of the AC-side when the system was finished charging and still plugged in.

Switchable graphics is a no-go right now, the software exists but it doesnt function.

Screen model number in our T410 with dedicated graphics (1440x900) model is LTN141BT09001 and LEN4036

yak wrote:Topics I would like covered:
* build quality as compared to older generations including how the lid feels now that the roll-cage has been removed,
* keyboard flex or hopefully lack thereof and overall typing experience as compared to previous generations,
* quality of used materials,
* switchable graphics or lack thereof,
* battery charging thresholds or lack thereof,
* power consumption showed by Power Manager in each model under possibly similar circumstances (on batteries with half-bright display, energy saving profile and wifi on),
* screen quality, brightness, contrast, viewing angles,
* fan noise and differences between integrated and dedicated versions.

That's from the top of my head. And of course, a lot of high resolution, clear pictures showing every detail. Insides too.

Thanks a lot!

Build quality is addressed in the review. http://www.notebookreview.com/default.a ... nkpad+t410

The lid feels as strong but now you can get screen distortion in some spots with heavy pressure to the back of the cover.

Keyboard is back to the T60/T61/T400 2nd gen levels of flex. Its not like compressing a block of wood or anything but it doesnt have the huge flex on the right side like we saw in the first generation of the T400.

The plastics used feel pretty durable and no less than previous models. The chassis unibody has been redesigned and seems to have less material but is as stiff, if not stiffer, than the previous generation. It looks like swiss cheese above the optical drive now. You can see this in pictures I will be posting soon of the inside.

No switchable graphics yet.

I think you are referring to the Power Manager charging cutoff settings? The T410 no longer has the adjustable cutoffs that previous models offered. You have a single checkbox for "automatic".

I will fill this in later tonight for you and the other poster.

Same screens as before (poor contrast, limited viewing angles, etc). The T510 with the Full HD screen will be the first new panel we have seen in a long time. Hoping that looks better.

Mentioned this above. Dedicated model runs the fan longer but not faster. Compared to previous generations the fan noise pitch has increased but the overall noise levels have come down. If you are sensitive to higher pitched sounds the T410 might annoy you as much as it annoyed me.

Pictures are promised. I would be getting them right now if someone didn't walk off with the studio camera sdhc card

Thank you for the review and answers to my questions. I'm looking forward to the power consumption details.

Yes, I was talking about the customized charging cutoff settings. It's a pity they are gone as this was one of the features differentiating ThinkPads from other brands and I have always found it very useful. Haven't used the automatic setting before. Assuming it is the same in T410, do you know what it does exactly?

yak wrote:Thank you for the review and answers to my questions. I'm looking forward to the power consumption details.

Yes, I was talking about the customized charging cutoff settings. It's a pity they are gone as this was one of the features differentiating ThinkPads from other brands and I have always found it very useful. Haven't used the automatic setting before. Assuming it is the same in T410, do you know what it does exactly?

Hard to say without talking with the designers. Oh wait I think I still have one of their emails

I will see if someone can give me some info on that and perhaps why it was taken out.