First Glance... T510

[archer6]

FWIW, Trackpoint pressing against the keyboard has been an issue with older laptops as well, at least the thinner 14" models. This is definitely not something new.

If the computer is carried in a well stuffed bag this is true. However I've always carried the 14" T 20,21,23, 30, 42, 43's I've had, in a proper, albeit rather expensive computer case. At no time has this ever been an issue for me. I'm not saying it hasn't been for other ThinkPad owners, as I'm simply reporting my personal experiences.
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Cheers..

[Black_and_White_Mage]

I'm eager to here your opinion regarding the flexible display lid of the T510. I'm so used to ThinkPads being of rigid, high quality construction, the thin, flexible panel is of concern to me. As far as build quality the rest is fine. Time constraints have prevented me from setting up my new T510 thus far. As a result I've had more time to think about this issue. I must admit I'm not happy with that aspect.
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Cheers...

archer6, it is hard for me to say. The T510 and X200 are the second and third laptop that I have ever own. (The first one was a Dell Inspiron e1405 that overheats, cuts of randomly like crazy and have weak hinges) If you are talking about the top part of the screen (where the camera is) flexing when pressed,then I do agree with you. My intuition tell me the flexing at that area is not good. On the other hand, both laptops feel so "Solid" for lack of a better word. The only other laptops I have experience with are the entry level macbooks.

[archer6]

archer6, it is hard for me to say. If you are talking about the top part of the screen (where the camera is) flexing when pressed,then I do agree with you. My intuition tell me the flexing at that area is not good.

For clarification, the concern I have is the overall flex when one presses anywhere on the back of the display (when the computer is operating). When I press, it distorts the image on the display. That's a degree of flexibility or softness of the lid I've not experienced before. Another test is to grab the upper left & right corners and lightly twist them to check the display for flex. A certain amount is to be expected, however in comparison to my other ThinkPads, this one is very flimsy. If you have time, please do the checks I've outlined and post back. Perhaps I have one that is defective. An unseen fracture or hairline crack which I cannot see, but which is causing this. I look forward to hearing from you on this.
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Thanks!

[pianowizard]

I absolutely cannot accept a laptop without a trackpoint

...component that I rely on is the TrackPoint

Two comments:

1) IMHO, the touchpad is less intuitive than the trackpoint, and so it takes a bit more practice to use it well. So my question is, how hard and for how long have you guys tried to use touchpads? It took me months to get "perfect".

2) For me, the touchpad works well only if the pointer speed is set at the maximum. This is extremely important. If you haven't tried the touchpad with the pointer speed maximized, then I recommend you to try again, not just for a few seconds but for several days at least. If you can accept the touchpad as an input method, you would have sooooo many more laptops to choose from.

While I prefer the touchpad (faster and more precise), I do like to switch between it and the trackpoint periodically. That's because each input method involves a different set of muscles, and so after using each method for a while, I switch to the other method to allow my muscles to rest.

[Black_and_White_Mage]

I don't have the distortions as you are describing when pressing against the back of the display. But, I don't if it mean anything but I have the HD screen (which sucks!).

[archer6]

Two comments:

1) IMHO, the touchpad is less intuitive than the trackpoint, and so it takes a bit more practice to use it well. So my question is, how hard and for how long have you guys tried to use touchpads? It took me months to get "perfect".

2) For me, the touchpad works well only if the pointer speed is set at the maximum. This is extremely important. If you haven't tried the touchpad with the pointer speed maximized, then I recommend you to try again, not just for a few seconds but for several days at least. If you can accept the touchpad as an input method, you would have sooooo many more laptops to choose from.

While I prefer the touchpad (faster and more precise), I do like to switch between it and the trackpoint periodically. That's because each input method involves a different set of muscles, and so after using each method for a while, I switch to the other method to allow my muscles to rest.

Kudos for bringing up two excellent points!
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1) I will be the first to admit, that years ago I tried and dismissed the touchpads on the various other brands of laptops I'd purchased. They were simply too vague. Then when I received my T500, that changed, as I found almost immediately that it functioned quite nicely.
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2) Your are quite right on this point as well. I've tried a variety of settings and found the optimum one for me and it does make a difference.
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Finally, the over sized, all glass touchpad (sans button) on my new Unibody MacBook Pro, is truly impressive. This multifunction, gesture supporting touchpad is actually fun and a refreshing change of pace.
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Cheers...

[archer6]

I don't have the distortions as you are describing when pressing against the back of the display. But, I don't if it mean anything but I have the HD screen (which sucks!).

Thanks for checking. Are you finding the HD display is too low of a resolution for you? Or what about it don't you like?
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Cheers...

[dr_st]

pianowizard,

You make good points regarding the touchpad. I would perhaps refine your first point and rephrase it: IMO, the touchpad is actually more intuitive to use than a trackpoint on a basic level, but probably less intuitive if your goal is to use it well.

I'm not sure one can objectively determine which one is faster and more precise, and I bet it actually depends a lot on the particular tasks.

I never used the touchpad seriously, because I never owned a laptop without a trackpoint. I used it from time to time on my friends' machines and disliked it enough to not try to become uber-proficient with it. Why should I? I bet that if I tried hard enough I could learn to control the pointer by rolling a piece of chewing gum inside my mouth. But why would I do this to myself, when I already have an established control system that works well for me and allows me to be faster and more efficient than 99% or more of the people I know who are using touchpads?

I realize that I am limiting myself to a very small set of products this way. But hey, in our modern world with so many products, often differing from each other only in meaningless ways, having something to focus you is not such a disadvantage. My opinion only of course.

[thebitguru]

Thank you everyone for answering my Macbook Pro related questions. One last thing (repeat because I didn't see this answered): do the Lenovo trackpads support multi-finger gestures like the Macbook Pro? I know you can do the pinch/zoom, but what about things like double tap for right click, two-finger scroll, and some of the other convenient three and four fingered gestures?

[archer6]

@ dr_st
Good points. In my particular case the first laptop I owned was a Toshiba with a trackpoint, just before I bought my first ThinkPad many years ago. So its a matter of using something that works so well for me I have no desire to walk away from it.
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On another note, I just heard from a good friend of mine. He just received his new T510 about an hour ago, set it up and called to say he was very happy with it. When I asked about the display cover issue he says his is fine. He's much pickier than I am. I'm going to take a look at his later today, perhaps I do have a bad one. That would be a nice surprize as that can be dealt with. Time will tell...heh!
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Cheers...

[archer6]

One last thing (repeat because I didn't see this answered): do the Lenovo trackpads support multi-finger gestures like the Macbook Pro? I know you can do the pinch/zoom, but what about things like double tap for right click, two-finger scroll, and some of the other convenient three and four fingered gestures?

I don't know as I haven't done an in depth test of the track pad. I rather doubt it, as its so much smaller than the one that Apple uses. Now that it appears I may have a defective unit, I'm focused on verifying that and getting it resolved.
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Cheers...

[Black_and_White_Mage]

Thanks for checking. Are you finding the HD display is too low of a resolution for you? Or what about it don't you like?
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Cheers...

The screen looks so faint almost fuzzy like (on full brightness). I guess that would be caused my low resolution. But why was it labeled HD? However, the X200 screen looks pretty good when compared to the T510.

On the Trackpoint vs. Trackpad, I always felt that the Trackpad got in the way A LOT when typing, so I would always use a wireless mouse. Right now I'm getting use to the Trackpoint and I find that it isn't getting in my way when typing.

[archer6]

The screen looks so faint almost fuzzy like (on full brightness). I guess that would be caused my low resolution. But why was it labeled HD? However, the X200 screen looks pretty good when compared to the T510.

The fuzzy appearance is likely due to the low resolution. Looking faint is a result of insufficient back lighting. This is always the problem when we must buy sight unseen. As far as being labeled HD, that refers to low resolution. HD+ is the medium res, and FHD is Full High Def, highest resolution. I'm on my BlackBerry so I don't have the correspond numbers to identify those three for you.
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Cheers...

[Black_and_White_Mage]

I just called tech and told the person that the screen was fuzzy. The sending me a depot box to return the T510.

[ThinkRob]

archer6: Let me know if it turns out your T510 is any different than the others. Hopefully it's just a single faulty unit...

[archer6]

archer6: Let me know if it turns out your T510 is any different than the others. Hopefully it's just a single faulty unit...

I placed a call to Lenovo, describing the issue. To their credit, they volunteered to replace my computer, rather than subjecting me to the inconvenience and delays of dealing with the warranty / service department. I believe one of the reasons they made this decision, was based on my approach. I was very courteous, gave them a very detailed explanation of the problem, and cited the precise differences between my friends T510 (which did not have this same issue) and mine. Thus I will look ahead with a positive attitude, hoping the replacement I receive will be fine.
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Cheers...

[Black_and_White_Mage]

archer6, what part of lenovo did you call?

[georgema]

RE: The flex on the display lid, is this also a problem on the W510? I was hoping that, as a Workstation laptop, this might have the extra strength in the lid.

Up until now I have carried my trusty T41P unprotected in a fairly tightly packed rucksack for the last 5+ years. I'd always been a bit worried in case the screen was compressed or bent but it has stood the test of time very, very well. I'm very impressed and was hoping this would continue. I had planned to buy a sleeve or new case with my next laptop purchase but even so I'd hope that the lid was strong as it's such a large surface area that can be compressed when on the move, even in a well padded bag or case.

Hmmm...can't really wait until the 520 appears so choices to be made soon.

Cheers, GMA

[archer6]

archer6, what part of lenovo did you call?

I called the sales department. Explained the situation to a sales rep. I already knew they have no authority, they're just order takers. Yet you have to start somewhere, so once he heard my story and hesitated, I politely asked to have the call escalated to a supervisor. I was put on hold for quite some time, but I expected that. Then when the supervisor came on the line, he listened and essentially did nothing more than give me the company line, blah, blah, blah, which I listened to while remaining calm and matter of fact, I asked to have the call escalated. (patience & perseverance is essential). The third person that listened to my story was a decision maker, (that was my goal) and after hearing the story immediately said they would replace it. He put someone else on the line to setup the return / exchange. So now its a matter of waiting for the new computer. They said the order would be rushed, to expect it in ten days or less.
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Cheers...

[archer6]

RE: The flex on the display lid, is this also a problem on the W510? I was hoping that, as a Workstation laptop, this might have the extra strength in the lid.

Up until now I have carried my trusty T41P unprotected in a fairly tightly packed rucksack for the last 5+ years. I'd always been a bit worried in case the screen was compressed or bent but it has stood the test of time very, very well. I'm very impressed and was hoping this would continue. I had planned to buy a sleeve or new case with my next laptop purchase but even so I'd hope that the lid was strong as it's such a large surface area that can be compressed when on the move, even in a well padded bag or case.

Hmmm...can't really wait until the 520 appears so choices to be made soon.

Cheers, GMA

As an early adopter, I was not surprised to have a problem. Especially since this is a completely new design. The prior ThinkPad T & W series retain the durable, time tested, clam shell tabbed lid that aligns with grooves along the edges of the keyboard, thereby providing extra protection and rigidity when closed. Lenovo has abandoned this, which seems to have reduced the strength and integrity of the display lid. In addition the type of plastic is flexible as opposed to the prior models of several years. Since the W model is comprised of the same size housing & material I would expect it to have the same characteristics. That said perhaps Lenovo's testing has revealed a flexible lid has no adverse consequences.
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Cheers...

[ThinkRob]

The prior ThinkPad T & W series retain the durable, time tested, clam shell tabbed lid that aligns with grooves along the edges of the keyboard, thereby providing extra protection and rigidity when closed. Lenovo has abandoned this, which seems to have reduced the strength and integrity of the display lid. In addition the type of plastic is flexible as opposed to the prior models of several years. Since the W model is comprised of the same size housing & material I would expect it to have the same characteristics. That said perhaps Lenovo's testing has revealed a flexible lid has no adverse consequences.

That sounds like the design of the X200s, actually.

The lid on the X200s is flexible -- very flexible -- when open, yet provides excellent protection when closed. Put in engineering terms, the new design is much, much more vulnerable to torsion when open, but much more resistant to compression when closed.

Personally, I think it's about a 40/60 tradeoff against. I like the increased resistance to pressure whilst closed -- after all, getting crushed in a bag is a real threat -- but given my past experience with notebooks, am concerned about its durability in the face of other threats. The only time I've ever damaged a display was when it was hit on a corner of the open lid, and since that's exactly the sort of force that the new design fares worse against... well... I am a *bit* nervous.

I'll be interested to find out whether the new machine remedies the problem for you. Hopefully Lenovo hasn't bumped durability down another notch...

[usadan]

I'm curious.. how does the screen contrast compare to the T500. I once got a T500 with a low-res screen and the blacks were so gray and washed out that I couldn't stand it. I returned it (and took the hit on restocking fee). Does the screen look better on the T510 than the T500?

[archer6]

I'm curious.. how does the screen contrast compare to the T500. I once got a T500 with a low-res screen and the blacks were so gray and washed out that I couldn't stand it. I returned it (and took the hit on restocking fee). Does the screen look better on the T510 than the T500?

I didn't have my first T510 long enough to evaluate the display itself. I will compare the replacement to my T500 when it arrives.
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Cheers...

[Black_and_White_Mage]

I'm curious.. how does the screen contrast compare to the T500. I once got a T500 with a low-res screen and the blacks were so gray and washed out that I couldn't stand it. I returned it (and took the hit on restocking fee). Does the screen look better on the T510 than the T500?

usadan, I don't know if I had a bad or defective screen but the colors were washed out on the lowest res screen I ordered. Everything looked "fuzzy" and it hard to read text on full brightness.

[archer6]

I just called tech and told the person that the screen was fuzzy. The sending me a depot box to return the T510.

Some additional thoughts about your first "fuzzy display". My initial comment about it likely being the low resolution was based on very limited experience on my part. I've only had three low res ThinkPads, as I prefer what used to be SXGA+ or UXGA, depending on what I had planned on using each particular ThinkPad for.
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I'm glad to hear they are going to look at it, and hoping they will bring it up to your expectations. The broader topic of "displays" on our ThinkPads is something that obviously is of great concern to all of us, as in general it's the weak link in the ThinkPad chain, if you will. Did they give you a rough idea of how long you will be without your new ThinkPad?
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Cheers...