Thinkpads Forum

I'm currently using a T41p, going on 6.5 years, still going strong but a bit long in the tooth. I'm thinking of replacing my T41p and it looks like the T410s is the logical counterpart of this generation.

My T41p specs...
1.7 GHz Pentium M
14.1" 4:3 screen 1400x1050
2 Gb memory
64 Gb HDD
128 Mb video memory ATI Mobility Fire GL T2

Just a question - are there ANY "downgrades" of going with the T410s?

1) less screen real estate in the vertical direction
2) slight increase in the width of the laptop

Other than those 2, are there any downgrades going to a T410s from a T41p? What about the video capability? What about the screen quality and brightness? And what about the build quality in general? Keep in mind my T41p is "IBM".

Other general questions...
1) Do ThinkPads still lead in build quality and construction among laptops? Just asking since I've never owned a China-produced Lenovo before. Are ThinkPads of higher quality than a top end Japanese laptop?
2) Do they have a bluray/dvd burner option?
3) Do they have a 160 Gb solid state drive?

Thanks for your time.

As far as video capabilities go, you will loose the S-Video port.

You will gain the DisplayPort but still, connecting to TVs will be more difficult.

Also: T41p has PCMCIA, T410s has ExpressCard/34.

Compared to my T41 from ages ago, I'd take my T410s any day

s2kdriver80 wrote:Just asking since I've never owned a China-produced Lenovo before. Are ThinkPads of higher quality than a top end Japanese laptop?

Unless you got very lucky when buying your T41p, chances are you *have* owned a Chinese-made ThinkPad.

And yes, IMO, ThinkPads are still some of the best-built, best-engineered machines out there.

yak wrote:As far as video capabilities go, you will loose the S-Video port.

You will gain the DisplayPort but still, connecting to TVs will be more difficult.

Thanks for your reply. Yea I don't really use those exterior ports. When I meant video capabilities, I was referring to the performance of the video card itself. I think the video memory is like 512 vs 128 so that has improved. What about the other aspects like speed, refresh, 3D abilities, rendering, etc - wondering if the ATI Rage Mobility of yesteryear has anything on the current T410s video card.

Also, what about the screen itself? I've heard Lenovo screens aren't the best out there, but would be quite disappointing if 7 year old T41p's display has better contrast, viewing angles, and brightness compared to the new T410s. My mom just bought a base Compaq CQxx series from Best Buy for $350 and the brightness and vividness of that screen was pretty nice and definitely better than my T41p. Would be laughable if a $350 laptop has a better screen than a $2000+ Lenovo.

Volker wrote:Also: T41p has PCMCIA, T410s has ExpressCard/34.

Compared to my T41 from ages ago, I'd take my T410s any day

I've never really used those features, so that's immaterial in my case, but I'm sure the latter is more useful.

ThinkRob wrote:
Unless you got very lucky when buying your T41p, chances are you *have* owned a Chinese-made ThinkPad.

And yes, IMO, ThinkPads are still some of the best-built, best-engineered machines out there.

Ha true. But now, it's full-blown Chinese, not just the parts and labor, but management, planning, culture, etc.

s2kdriver80 wrote: Ha true. But now, it's full-blown Chinese, not just the parts and labor, but management, planning, culture, etc.

Well a lot (almost all, AFAIK) of the engineering is actually still US-based, in many cases by the same departments and people who did it under IBM's reign.

(Disclaimer: this is second-hand from a recently-ex IBM employee.)

Thanks guys for the valuable feedback. Now, a few more general questions...

1) It looks like the T410s has just 1 input for both audio out/in. Now, how does that work if you want to connect to a speaker and a mic at the same time? I'm not electrically-inclined or an audiophile, but if that jack does both, can I just hook up one of those 1 male to 2 female adaptors so that I can plug in the speakers and mic at the same time?

2) My T41p doesn't have an issue with this but I've heard that laptops (in general, not just Lenovos) since then do not allow ripping of audio tracks from music CDs in stereo - is this true for the T410s, or is this whole thing an unfounded rumor?

3) Anyone know when the blu-ray option will be available again? It looks like the option has been removed on their site.

4) Regarding the performance of the video card itself. I think the video memory is like 512 for the T410s vs 128 for my T41p so that has improved. What about the other aspects like speed, refresh, 3D abilities, rendering, etc - wondering if the ATI Rage Mobility of yesteryear has anything on the current T410s video card.

5) Also, what about the screen itself? I've heard Lenovo screens aren't the best out there, but would be quite disappointing if 7 year old T41p's display has better contrast, viewing angles, and brightness compared to the new T410s. My mom just bought a base Compaq CQxx series from Best Buy for $350 and the brightness/contrast/vividness of that screen was pretty nice and definitely better than my T41p. Would be laughable if a $350 laptop has a better screen than a $2000+ Lenovo.

6) And lastly... other than the added cost, are there any negatives in choosing the multitouch screen? What I mean is are things like lid thickness, reliability of screen, screen quality (contrast, brightness) sacrificed?

s2kdriver80 wrote:Also, what about the screen itself? I've heard Lenovo screens aren't the best out there, but would be quite disappointing if 7 year old T41p's display has better contrast, viewing angles, and brightness compared to the new T410s. My mom just bought a base Compaq CQxx series from Best Buy for $350 and the brightness and vividness of that screen was pretty nice and definitely better than my T41p. Would be laughable if a $350 laptop has a better screen than a $2000+ Lenovo.

I've recently bought an X200 to replace a T60. I was worried after reading all there reports of how awful the screen is. I was therefore surprised to find it having better contrast and brightness than my SGXA+ T60. I guess the opinions expressed by people are greatly influenced by what they compare to. Comparing the Lenovo displays to an older generation ThinkPad with TN display vs. comparing them to a good desktop displays or IPS-panels creates a totally different impression.

s2kdriver80 wrote:My T41p doesn't have an issue with this but I've heard that laptops (in general, not just Lenovos) since then do not allow ripping of audio tracks from music CDs in stereo - is this true for the T410s, or is this whole thing an unfounded rumor?

Definitely not true, and I'd question any other advice from a source that said something like that!

And lastly... other than the added cost, are there any negatives in choosing the multitouch screen? What I mean is are things like lid thickness, reliability of screen, screen quality (contrast, brightness) sacrificed?

Yes: you probably won't use it as much as you think. Touchscreens have been around for well over a decade, but they haven't taken off as common desktop computing interfaces for a good reason: if you're seated in the normal typing position, reaching up to touch the screen is both disruptive and (over the course of a day) tiring. Furthermore, there just aren't that many applications that benefit from touch control (as opposed to what can be accomplished with a normal pointer.)

Multitouch is a useful concept for mobile devices and (arguably) tablets -- but for a full-size laptop it doesn't really make much sense, at least not given the price.

Just my $0.02 though...

s2kdriver80 wrote:Thanks guys for the valuable feedback. Now, a few more general questions...on their site.

4) Regarding the performance of the video card itself. I think the video memory is like 512 for the T410s vs 128 for my T41p so that has improved. What about the other aspects like speed, refresh, 3D abilities, rendering, etc - wondering if the ATI Rage Mobility of yesteryear has anything on the current T410s video card.

Trust me, anything since the T42 will beat out your T41p in the graphics department.

Other than being more plasticy than your T41P the T410s is currently the best 14 inch ThinkPad on the market...

s2kdriver80 wrote:2) My T41p doesn't have an issue with this but I've heard that laptops (in general, not just Lenovos) since then do not allow ripping of audio tracks from music CDs in stereo - is this true for the T410s, or is this whole thing an unfounded rumor?

It's not quite THAT excessive, but see Stereo Re-mix thread (was T61/p Sound Recording?)

yak wrote: I've recently bought an X200 to replace a T60. I was worried after reading all there reports of how awful the screen is. I was therefore surprised to find it having better contrast and brightness than my SGXA+ T60. I guess the opinions expressed by people are greatly influenced by what they compare to. Comparing the Lenovo displays to an older generation ThinkPad with TN display vs. comparing them to a good desktop displays or IPS-panels creates a totally different impression.

Thanks. I really hope the T410s will have a better quality screen than my outgoing T41p. The contrast is just ok, nothing too great, and the brightness is really borderline acceptable given that every other display I've seen recently beats my T41p in brightness.

ThinkRob wrote: Definitely not true, and I'd question any other advice from a source that said something like that!

Thanks. The reason I thought there was some weight to this rumor was the fact that the recording industry has been [censored] and moaning about copyright issues blah blah etc. I like to rip music from my own audio CDs for portability, not to distribute.

i-SnipeZ wrote: Trust me, anything since the T42 will beat out your T41p in the graphics department.

Cool... good to know!

nxman wrote:Other than being more plasticy than your T41P the T410s is currently the best 14 inch ThinkPad on the market...

More plasticky? Are you serious? The quality of my T41p is ok, nothing out of this world. But I would have liked better materials. For example, the touchpad and the keys develop shiny spots over the years from wear. I also have a few cracks in the casing from 7 years of moving it around and weakening from the heat I guess.

Vempele wrote: It's not quite THAT excessive, but see Stereo Re-mix thread (was T61/p Sound Recording?)

I'll read that long thread in a bit. But in a nutshell, do you know if I could rip tracks off an audio CD with the T410s?

Anyway, I'm still holding out on buying the T410s for 2 reasons.

1) Waiting for them to include the blu-ray option again. You can buy this separately as an accessory from their website but it costs like over a grand. I don't know if they would discount the price a bit if you were to configure and buy it with the system, so I'll wait.

2) The max SDD drive you can include in your configuration is 128Gb. Like #1, you can purchase the 256Gb separately as an accessory from their website, but waiting for them to include it as an option for the system since you could save money when they deduct the cost difference of not including the original drive in the configuration. I've heard some laptops have been getting the 512Gb SDD, too bad not available for the ThinkPad yet.

s2kdriver80 wrote: 2) The max SDD drive you can include in your configuration is 128Gb. Like #1, you can purchase the 256Gb separately as an accessory from their website, but waiting for them to include it as an option for the system since you could save money when they deduct the cost difference of not including the original drive in the configuration. I've heard some laptops have been getting the 512Gb SDD, too bad not available for the ThinkPad yet.

I wouldn't let that stop you.

It's almost invariably better to do upgrades like drives yourself, rather than purchasing from the system manufacturer. This is doubly true for SSDs: SSDs included by Lenovo and others are often a generation or two behind despite their higher price tags, so you'll likely end up paying more for less. Add that to the fact that OEM drives are often ineligible for firmware updates, and it becomes even more of an expensive proposition. If you do the upgrade yourself -- and it's *not* a difficult or invasive one to do -- you'll know exactly what you're getting and will probably save a few bucks on the way.

Just my $0.02. YMMV.

ThinkRob wrote: I wouldn't let that stop you.

It's almost invariably better to do upgrades like drives yourself, rather than purchasing from the system manufacturer. This is doubly true for SSDs: SSDs included by Lenovo and others are often a generation or two behind despite their higher price tags, so you'll likely end up paying more for less. Add that to the fact that OEM drives are often ineligible for firmware updates, and it becomes even more of an expensive proposition. If you do the upgrade yourself -- and it's *not* a difficult or invasive one to do -- you'll know exactly what you're getting and will probably save a few bucks on the way.

Just my $0.02. YMMV.

I went with the 128 GB SSD that was included with the system. Unfortunately, if you choose the discrete graphics option, you're stuck with the SSD drive. If I really need that extra space, I'll investigate my options down the line.

Thank you all for your feedback.

1) Went with the T410s #2901CTO. Due to the shortage of the i5-540M 2.53 GHz processor, I was stuck with the i5-520M 2.4 GHz. I don't know if this is a big difference. My 7 year old T41p has a Pentium M Centrino 1.7 GHz... let's hope this is a substantial improvement.

2) ALSO, when I ordered on the phone, I requested that he include the recovery disks in case I want to reload everything or if I get a new drive in the future. I wanted them now so I wouldn't have any down time requesting them later on when I do need them. He said Lenovo doesn't give out recovery disks anymore and that I should backup or image my HDD as soon as I get the new laptop, and that basically I'm on my own. Does this sound right? I mean if my drive gets hosed in the future and I buy a new drive... I'm SOL because I didn't back up ghost my original drive?

1. I bet it will be a substantial improvement; I went from a 1.6GHz Pentium M to a 2GHz Core Duo processor (T41 -> T60)and this machine is pretty fast, much faster than my T41.
2. You can burn your own set of recovery disks when you'll get the laptop.

AIX wrote:1. I bet it will be a substantial improvement; I went from a 1.6GHz Pentium M to a 2GHz Core Duo processor (T41 -> T60)and this machine is pretty fast, much faster than my T41.
2. You can burn your own set of recovery disks when you'll get the laptop.

Thanks - but do you know if there is a noticeable difference between the i5-520 2.4 GHz and the i5-5400 2.53 GHz? The latter wasn't available when I ordered.

ALSO, just realized I could have used a 20% coupon I found online DOH!! Unfortunately, the sales guy I talked to on the phone did not mention this. Ordered it yesterday Friday May 1, they don't open again until Monday May 3, so will have to wait until Monday to call up and ask, but do you think they can price-adjust? There is no reason why they couldn't, given that it would have been just 1 business since I had ordered. Also, on Lenovo's order status tracking page, it says that if you need to change an item on your order, to call your sales rep. Well if they can still change an item on your order, there shouldn't be a valid reason why they couldn't price-adjust. If he refuses, maybe I'll tell him to cancel the order and if for some freak of a reason he claims he can't, I'll tell him I'll return the laptop even with the 15% restock hit for the principle of it and he'll risk losing commission on the sale. Has anyone been in this situation?

Normally lenovo will price match up to 30 days after you receive your machine. This includes price adjustments and coupons

deforest wrote:Normally lenovo will price match up to 30 days after you receive your machine. This includes price adjustments and coupons

Thank you for the encouraging info deforest. For anyone else looking to buy a T410s, just google thinkpad t410s and the code is in one of the first few links. It expires on Monday 5/3. Let's hope my sales guy doesn't play hard to get on Monday lol.

AIX wrote:1. I bet it will be a substantial improvement; I went from a 1.6GHz Pentium M to a 2GHz Core Duo processor (T41 -> T60)and this machine is pretty fast, much faster than my T41.
2. You can burn your own set of recovery disks when you'll get the laptop.

AIX, I have a question regarding creating the recovery media.

Say for example I ordered the system with a 128GB HDD and I create the recovery media. Then later on, I decide to upgrade the hard drive to 256GB. Would I still be able to use those recovery CDs I created to load up the new hard drive? I'm just asking since I imagine the image contains hardware data and drivers and when I load the CDs onto the new hard drive, the recovery process might be expecting the exact same HDD that I initially created the disks with, and thus cause conflicts and crashes.

I just migrated from my T42 (2373-K5H) to new T410 (2522-RE3), both with discrete graphics.
Since the T410 is quite similar to T410s, may I share some thoughts:

a) You will get a BIG boost in CPU speed, going from Pentium M to the newest dual core CPU's..
~If you multi-task heavily as I do in an office environment, this will make a big difference.

b) T410 (and T410s) LCD use LED illumination technology, so is much brighter and use less battery power.
In fact, you can now do serious work outside office with sunlight around you, which my T42 LCD was not bright enough to do.

c) T410s external ports selection is very limited, which was why I settled for the thicker version T410.
Anyways, for T410s, differences as compared to your T41p (or my T42):
~You lose the S-Video, but you get VGA, & DisplayPort.
~You lose the telephone jack (RJ-11) which can send fax, or serve as a dial-up connection in areas with no broadband (or if your home or office's broadband is broken--it's happened to me before).
~If you swap out your CD Tray for other things (like SATA Hard Drive Adapter fit into your CD, the T410S is actually LESS convenient, you need to physically turn your computer upside down and press 2 switches/levers. This is a step backwards in my book.
~You get 3x USB 2.0 ports, one of which you can use to charge your BlackBerry or iPhone while computer is off and plugged into wall socket.
~You also get a built-in multi-card reader which can read many types of media including SD cards. It cannot read any of the larger CF Cards.

~So you get different but overall better connections options.

d) LCD Screen Resolution:
On my T42 I used a 1400x1050 high resolution LCD, which is a 4:3 screen ratio.

On my T410 I used a 1440x900 high resolution LCD, which is a 16:10 screen ratio (one of the last of its kind).
I find that due to the smaller physical height of my LCD screen, the DPI feels about the same for both, and I find it minimally acceptable (I'll definitely have problems with 16:9 screens). I do find that I waste more time moving my mouse pointer to the wiiiide right side of the screen to scroll down, which is a pain... Guess I really miss the 4:3 screen ratio

But 16:10 screen ratio is (minimally) acceptable...

I find that Windows 7 tend to use up more of your vertical screen resolution with more menu bars and the like, so a high vertical screen resolution is even more important to me than before...

e) T410 built is very good, on par with my T42 which dates back to the IBM days...

f) I believe you can burn your Product Recovery CD/DVD set, remove battery, stick in new hard drive, pop in your recovery CD/DVD's, and it will format your hard drive and set up Windows for you automatically... it does not matter if it's HDD or SSD, they all get treated the same...
You can even buy after-market SSD's which would work on your computer as main hard drive...

That's what I did for my T42, and I believe the T410 (and T410s) would behave the same...

g) The Blueray/DVD multi-burner is available as an option, but extremely expensive.
Some countries the more expensive models like W510 comes with this built-in... but I suppose your T410s does not have this option yet...

h) Do consider 64-bit Windows for future-proof, my T410 came with 32-bit Win7, which can only use 3 GB of my RAM (I had 4 GB installed).
Both T410s and T410 can use up to 8 GB--but the catch is, you MUST use 64-bit Win7 to take advantage of this potential additional RAM.

Unless of course, you have legacy programs, and/or accessories that can only use 32-bit Win7, then you may need to consider carefully...