Thinkpads Forum

If I was to run word,surf,excel, etc. How many hours would they get for both a 6 cell and a 9 cell? Thanks!

If you're like everyone else:
6/9 = 2-3/3-4hrs

If you're like me or the guys who can pull battery life:
6/9 = 5-6/9-10hrs

Do you substantially dim your screen for that?
Just for fun, would you have numbers for the 4-cell battery also?

According to the tabook from Lenovo:

T410:
with GMA graphics: 6cell = up to 6.6 hr, 9cell = up to 11 hr
with discrete graphics: 6cell = up to 5.0 hr, 9cell = up to 8.3 hr

T510:
with GMA graphics: 6cell = 6.2 hr, 9cell = up to 10.4 hr
with discrete graphics: 6cell = up to 4.7 hr, 9cell = up to 7.8 hr

T510:
with GMA graphics: 6cell = 6.2 hr

I wish. I'm getting 3 to 4 hours with fairly conservative power settings. Screen at about 7.

Well if I told you people what I did, there is this 50% chance I'd be called a liar that doesn't support items that are commonly preferred by the hip crowd these days.

I'll share a few secrets, but if anyone claims I don't support SSDs wholeheartly or open source software, then I won't share the rest.

LED screen, I power it off when I don't plan on using the T410 for more than 10-20 seconds.
I constantly adjust the brightness accordingly to the surroundings. (Read: Going to idle? Lower the LCD brightness a little, power off after 10-20 seconds.)
Turn your AV off, it still uses CPU cycles on file access for the real time protection end of things.

That is, three of several dozen things I do to get battery life.

Oh right, I should mention I have the discrete graphics but I do one more thing to ensure I get more battery life.

Navck wrote: Oh right, I should mention I have the discrete graphics but I do one more thing to ensure I get more battery life.

And that is.....?

I don't have a on T410 but I have a T400 with LED screen. I also want my battery to last as long as it can when I'm off the grid, but not to the point of affecting my general user experience with my laptop. I think a lot of my attempt to conserve battery should apply to T410 in general. Here's what I found :

I've play with Power Manager to set the proper power saving for different component but I also set my wireless strength to max because I don't want to have inconsistant wireless connections. I also dim my LED but not to the point of difficult to read my screen.

I take the optical drive away and use a blank insert. I found that this saves me about 1.5 watt. I also turn off ALL un-wanted devices in BIOS ( disable all ports that's not needed, including firewire, and bluetooth ), which results for another 2 watt or so. The side benefit is the laptop actually boots slightly faster.

I replace a OCZ vertex hard drive ( please please don't start another ssd vs hd thread ) and found that the ssd, both when idling and in use, uses less battery than the 80Gb 5400 hd. I remember it turned out to be around 20 min more with ssd, this is straight swap in/swap out of the 2 drive, did not do any tweaking. Sorry I didn't look at the wattage from Power Manager before/after I did that. My friend also let me play with a Intel G2 80Gb ssd for few hours and it **appears** to consume more battery when compare with my OCZ. Again I did not have enough time to do any real benchmark then, I was more interested in the performance aspects of both drive.

And the result? My laptop idles at 6-8watt, and depending on what I do, shoot up to 10-11 watt. What I also found out is simple tasks like moving the mouse (easer stick) would cause the power consumption to shoot up 2 to 3 watts so I guess the actual battery time is really depends on the usage pattern.

Powering the LCD off is going to be the biggest power saver with the backlighting going off. Followed by if you still have something like a T43, powering the parallel and IR off.

I have gotten the T43 to run 4 hours on the 6 cell with a little degradation in condition but I wouldn't recommend someone to try that.

AFAIK the T410 is capable making some of the hardware and/or ports go into a low power state, such as making the optical drive go into a standby mode.

On SSDs and HDDs, power usage difference is practically minimal with modern drives, with some 7.2k drives idling lower than a large percentage of SSDs. However those are some very, very select 7.2k drives against many SSDs of many varieties (From horrible to above average.)

Your system power consumption in order runs kinda like this:
LCD ~ 1-5 Watts
CPU ~ Possibly subwatt / 1W-25W+
Graphics ~ Possibly subwatt / 1-35W++
Storage device ~ 1W idle / 3W worst case access
Optical storage device (Idling) ~ 1W or less
Fan ~ 1-3W (Latter being the fan run at full speed most likely, don't bother powering the fan off.)

Think about this: Your processor and/or GPU is very capable of going into a low power state easily all while flipping back to full throttle. Can't control that without throttling it down and changing your usage habits.
Storage device? Well you can't do anything about that either besides changing your usage habits.
Optical device? Doesn't matter at this point
Fan? Don't bother, keep your temperatures low so the fan doesn't have to run at full speed, 25-50% off full power consumption (I'd have to find the specs but the fan will not exceed 3W most likely)

So what does this leave? LCD backlighting at this point.
Oh and your usage habits.

For reference, my system configuration, as some people deem it the most vile, environmentally unfriendly, power hungry monster it is with the 90W brick or Ultraslim adapter:
i7-620m ("Evil because it uses 35W over the i5-540m." Then explain to me why I get my runtimes?)
NVS3100m discrete graphics ("More evil because it isn't intergrated graphics!" Again, explain to me how I get my runtimes.)
320GB 7.2k Hitachi (HDD, SSD, whatever. I can have people with i5-520m, intergrated graphics, 80GB SSD, 8GB of RAM and pagefile off that will come up and tell me that getting 4 hours on a 9 cell is amazing. They can bugger off.)
2x2GB RAM (Win7-32 Ultimate. I don't care for 64 bit or the bragging rights about having more RAM, yet I have a huge pagefile too. So why am I getting more battery life?)
WXGA+ screen
Gobi2000 module (Powered off)
Bluetooth
Intel Ultimate 6300 ("Oh no, more antennas, it must be a power hungry device!" Prove it.)

So if my system is "as power hungry" as other people deem these components on other forums, then I have no idea how I can pull 4-5 hours off 45% state of charge and 9-10 off high 80s-90%.

Your battery life will depend on your usage habits, short of terminating useless services and programs.

Tony Chan wrote:My friend also let me play with a Intel G2 80Gb ssd for few hours and it **appears** to consume more battery when compare with my OCZ. Again I did not have enough time to do any real benchmark then, I was more interested in the performance aspects of both drive.

I can't speak for the G2, but in my (also limited) experience, the X25-M can have a slightly higher peak consumption than the Vertex, but they're usually comparable. When it comes to idle consumptions, on the hand, the X25-M beats out the Vertex, the latter having a fairly high idle draw.

Either way, they're both substantially more efficient than platter drives, so if you've got some spare cash and are looking to save some battery you might want to consider moving to an SSD.

ThinkRob wrote:Either way, they're both substantially more efficient than platter drives, so if you've got some spare cash and are looking to save some battery you might want to consider moving to an SSD.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd ... 55-14.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/not ... 06-16.html

Please do research before you make a blanket statement about something I have already proven to be false.

Folks, I have pretty much decided on a T410 as my next machine (i7-620, Windows 7 Ultimate, 4GB PC3-8500, 500GB 7200rpm, 9-cell battery). What graphics I load onto it is basically the last question I have before I pull the trigger. My questions are:

1) (Related to this thread) How much battery life can I get with discrete and the 9-cell? Navck, you seem to very convinced that long battery life can be obtained with that configuration. How many hours do you average?

2) If I were to run dual monitors by docking this machine, would discrete graphics be a requirement or can the new integrated handle that?

Thanks for any input...

Realistically I've gotten 7-9 hours estimated on the meter at above 80% charge, used the battery down to 50% and still had about 5-6 hours left on my discharges. You'd have to do a lot do achieve these numbers, as referenced in my T410 guide.

Discrete graphics is more than enough to handle dual monitors. Waaaay more than enough, I already underclock and watch the GPU load, you wouldn't be straining the NVS3100 at all.

I have a brand new T410 with discrete graphics (i7-620, Windows 7 Pro 32-bit, 4 GB PC3-8500, 500GB 7200rpm, 6-cell battery.)
It lasted about 3 hours, continuous office work (word, excel), checking email, browsing on web for research, print out interesting web pages... and I had already tweaked many if not most of the power savings features, but kept LCD at Level 11 most of the time...

jrcade wrote:Folks, I have pretty much decided on a T410 as my next machine (i7-620, Windows 7 Ultimate, 4GB PC3-8500, 500GB 7200rpm, 9-cell battery). What graphics I load onto it is basically the last question I have before I pull the trigger. My questions are:

1) (Related to this thread) How much battery life can I get with discrete and the 9-cell? Navck, you seem to very convinced that long battery life can be obtained with that configuration. How many hours do you average? ...

Navck wrote: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ssd ... 55-14.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/not ... 06-16.html

Please do research before you make a blanket statement about something I have already proven to be false.

None of the SSDs listed in the first article (from 2008, by the way) could be considered current. Further, you'll note that my post was referring to two specific drives, the X25-M and the Vertex, neither of which were mentioned in either article.

And in the harddrive industry, design concepts set out to three years is "considered very long term."

Technology marches on.

Navck wrote:If you're like everyone else:
6/9 = 2-3/3-4hrs

If you're like me or the guys who can pull battery life:
6/9 = 5-6/9-10hrs

Thanks for the information Navck but I have something to say hopefully I don't offend you. You get great hours but the fact is, if you have your screen auto dim by itself when you're not using it, that's not using the laptop therefore it doesn't count for how the long the battery really lasts. If you're ever idle or anything, that doesn't genuinely portray the truth of the battery. I've put my battery mode to max battery and run microsoft word, excel, or powerpoint and achieve a little over 4 hours on my 6 cell with brightness at 8. That's 4 hours straight, no auto dim, no breaks, the true statistics. If I run both browser and word/excel/or powerpoint, I achieve about 3-3.5 hours which is still great. Your 5-6 hours isn't accurate because you're autodimming it from idleness. "Idle", not using the laptop. Anyone can achieve great battery with idleness because the laptop is not being used.

Basically, what I'm saying is that it's your usage of how long you last and not the laptop itself.

Uh, for reference I adjust the screen based on the surroundings (Anywhere from 0 to 15, usually 10 is my max outdoors) while I do things like read a PDF and run IE+FF with network activity.

Then again people like to disbelieve me because they cannot replicate their numbers using their methods and not mine.

Actually dimming the screen really does help, sometimes you don't need that much brightness?

You cannot achieve 5/6 hours on a 6 cell with continuous use unless you have your LED turned off. It's not possible. Any idleness does not count as use. Straight on none stop use is what a real battery test proves. Ofcourse no one believes you. because you keep putting settings with auto display off and such. How would a TRUE battery test ever have display off, that's not use. What i'm trying to say is that no one can achieve 5-6 hours on a 6 cell on a T410 whether integrated or dedicated doing something nonstop. That does not count having an application opening but not doing anything. If you don't have further proof, then ofcourse no one will believe you. You act very prestigious about yourself and sound pretty cocky on your videos, not to be rude. If you prove it, maybe people will believe you. Not showing you on your desktop not doing anything productive and showing what the time remaining shows. I can do that by shutting my lid and reopening it and it says 12 hours then 10 then 8 then 4.

OK Loden, I offered to help you but you seem to turn my PM away and start acting like I lied to everyone as if I was an Lenovo rep or something.

The thing is I *do* turn the display off when the processor is doing something that DOES NOT require my user input. Sometimes this means I am encoding MP3s for someone and I know it'll take 2 minutes to finish. Does it count as cheating? No! Just as much as constantly adjusting the display brightness on my own to suit the environment. I do not use a fixed brightness for obvious reasons (Dark room? 0-4/15.)

As with the screenshots from my desktop, I minimize my windows or cut parts for for privacy reasons as well as having my icons turned off so people don't ask me why I have "such strange apps that I have never heard of" leading up to "help me with my computer" (No, I only help when *I* feel like it.) I happen to see that I'm getting the battery life I claim that I get and well, I decide to take a screenshot for the forums.

By the way, I do all of this on an i7-620m and the NVS3100m. If I get more battery life than most integrated users with i5-520ms, there might be a reason for this. Possibly that reason is that I actually *do* optimize my usage habits like I said in that topic to keep the CPU in low power state. (Perhaps you should read it again instead of just getting the "let CPU go into idle state" part?)

Warning: 287kb image (PS, this one is from a while back, if you want more recent ones I'll post later)
http://a.imageshack.us/img708/2765/officef.jpg

Navck wrote:
The thing is I *do* turn the display off when the processor is doing something that DOES NOT require my user input. Sometimes this means I am encoding MP3s for someone and I know it'll take 2 minutes to finish. Does it count as cheating? No! Just as much as constantly adjusting the display brightness on my own to suit the environment. I do not use a fixed brightness for obvious reasons (Dark room? 0-4/15.)

It's not cheating, but it does mean that your battery life figures aren't a realistic representation of what most folks can expect from their day-to-day use.

Navck wrote:If you're like everyone else:
6/9 = 2-3/3-4hrs

If you're like me or the guys who can pull battery life:
6/9 = 5-6/9-10hrs

Which is a realistic, expectable number for what I've done.
Equally, my times for "most people" are accurate, too.

So...

I also find that turning my LCD brightness down to the lowest setting saves significant battery life... but it's a pain to manually turn your LCD brightness up/down so frequently...

Does anyone have a shortcut key or utility to do this quick switching without doing this manually?
(Sort of like the equivalent for pressing Win+D to see desktop, then press Win+D again to see your application.)

I only change it as the environmental lighting changes...
If you want, bind your Thinkvantage key to a LCD (backlight) kill program or something like that.

I have two friends (T410 with 64-bit and T510 with 32-bit) both report roughly 7-8 hours on their 9-cell batteries with the NVS3100M. Both are Lenovo preloads of Windows 7, and AFAIK have not had any sort of advanced tweaking.