Thinkpads Forum

A few months back we got some T400s's in at work. We tested them for a bit them gave them out to our users. Within a few months now every single T400s user has had to have a major component of their system replaced by Lenovo (screens and motherboards). The issue ranged from lines in the screen, to the computer not shutting down, to the computer not starting up.

We had then purchased the new T410s's and started giving those out, those are no plagued by problems as well. Not as dramatic as the T400s issues but still issues. Ranging from lines in the screen to unresponsive when waking from sleep.

Has anyone else with a T410s/T400s experience similar issues?

We were originally using T400's and had zero issues with that and our users loved them. Then we moved to T400s/T410s and the users absolutely hate them. Wondering if we should've gone for the T410's instead of T410s. We would gladly trade weight and portability for stability.

Very interesting information.

How many units in total have you had that were affected?

I would also like to hear more inputs from others, but I bet T400s/T410s are not very commonly deployed in corporations, due to the price tag difference, and lack of certain features (large capacity batteries, for starts).

My company has recently started deploying T410 units. I was going to see if I could convince them to give me a T410s instead, for the portability, but I'm starting to have more and more doubts... First complaints about abysmal battery life, now this... Something does not seem right...

I will try to collect information on the T410 deployment at my company, but it will take a few months, since they are fairly new.

Do keep us updated.

For the T400s, we only have a few. Maybe 20-30 and I would say 80-90% have had a failuer or repair of some kind. We have 5 in my office and all have failed our needed service. We currently have a few users out there that the only way to turn off their computer is to pull the battery. (the user is to busy to be swapped or get the laptop fixed so they are living with the issue).

The T410s problems havent been quite so uniform, or nearly as high failure rates. Mainly one off issues. Like wireless radios ranomly being switched off and having to turn them back on(Fn+F5, not the physical switch). The issues are so bizarre and all over the place really. We have had several screen replacements and a few system boards. But we have been hesitant in deploying them further given the poor performance of the T400s's.

I've had trouble with the switchable graphics model and still have to some degree. It started running hot by running discrete graphics just showing video, and ended up freezing after overheating.
Support changed the motherboard, and now it is better, but I still get some overheating when using the discrete graphics for running anything other than simple tasks. Video, editing photos and light gaming now works but the one game I actually play once in a long while does not. (Rise of flight).

I know it is not a gaming platform, and I didn't buy it for that... I just mention it because it ends up overheating and bringing down the laptop. I would call it a design flaw that it is not able to cool the GPU/CPU to a degree where it keeps running, no matter what task you throw at it.

In reality I wanted switchable graphics to drive 2 24" monitors for development, and that is only done in discrete mode with the "Advanced Docking solution". If using integrated it will only drive one external monitor.

I can do without running games, and am still satisfied with what the T410S is bringing. I think that they tried to do too much in too small a package.

I haven't had other troubles with it this far (after 2 months).

Larswa wrote:In reality I wanted switchable graphics to drive 2 24" monitors for development, and that is only done in discrete mode with the "Advanced Docking solution". If using integrated it will only drive one external monitor.

Really???

Integrated graphics could drive two external monitors since T60 era (granted, the laptop LCD will have to be off). Have they really gone backwards, or did you mean two external monitors, in addition to the laptop screen?

I am also looking into buying a lenovo T410s, but if it is having issues its making me feel otherwise. Has anybody else have the same issues or am is it an outlier?

Jonathan C.

We have about 1200 T400s systems deployed and there has been a higher than normal failure rate with them compared to X301 and T61 systems. Our issues are LCD failure with a vertical line down the screen (very common), Speaker/Audio issues, and DoA systems.

While the failures have been manageable they are more than any other model ThinkPads since I have been managing our systems 6+ years. I love the T4x0s form factor and performance, Lenovo just needs to get a handle on the QC issues.

I have had one report of a screen failure on a T410s same vertical line, we only have 50 units deployed since they are a new model.

PS- This type of thread would be perfect for a new group that I have recommended to the admins "ThinkPads in the Enterprise". If you agree that a new sub-forum targeted to users who manage multiple systems is a good idea then please share your thoughts in this post: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=87968

I have only one T400s in my company and it is my daily use laptop. I have had no problems at all with it. I hope it continues, but so far I love it. It travels about 1 - 2 weeks a month, and is in a dock th erest of the time driving two monitors.

Mike

moore101 wrote: I have had one report of a screen failure on a T410s same vertical line, we only have 50 units deployed since they are a new model.

One of our T410s's had this same issue, brand new out of the box. That's why we are skeptical about them.

So many T400s's and you havent gone crazy? The 50 or so we have in our firm are driving our tech teams bonkers because they fail so often. We are moving the T400s users to T410s slowly but surely. But we are still weary of the T410s's.

Amazingracer wrote:The 50 or so we have in our firm are driving our tech teams bonkers because they fail so often.

I'm curious. By "fail so often" do you mean that you have experienced recurring failures? As in, something gets fixed/replaced, but the problem doesn't go away / comes back? Or just a large percentage of faulty units / parts?

dr_st wrote:I'm curious. By "fail so often" do you mean that you have experienced recurring failures? As in, something gets fixed/replaced, but the problem doesn't go away / comes back? Or just a large percentage of faulty units / parts?

All of the above. We had a T400s that wouldnt shut down. So we called Lenovo for a new motherboard. They replaced the motherboard, then the computer wouldnt turn on. Replace the motherboard again. It now turns on. It later had video problems. Replace the motherboard again.

We get something fixed then something else breaks. Its like a never ending loop for us. We actually had a meeting with Lenovo to discuss what poor quality the T400s and potentially the T410s we are seeing here.

Amazingracer wrote:All of the above. We had a T400s that wouldnt shut down. So we called Lenovo for a new motherboard. They replaced the motherboard, then the computer wouldnt turn on. Replace the motherboard again. It now turns on. It later had video problems. Replace the motherboard again.

We get something fixed then something else breaks. Its like a never ending loop for us. We actually had a meeting with Lenovo to discuss what poor quality the T400s and potentially the T410s we are seeing here.

If the reliable of T410s is suspect, why are they proposing to kill X300/301 series and make T410s as the flag ship? Seems like a bad idea.

Integrated graphics could drive two external monitors since T60 era (granted, the laptop LCD will have to be off). Have they really gone backwards, or did you mean two external monitors, in addition to the laptop screen?

Hi,

I mean 2 external monitors. Not supported (nor working) on the T410S using integrated graphics. You have to use the discrete to use the dvi/displayports on the dockingstation. Crappy! And yes ... I remember using the dvi on an integrated T60 ... No longer there. At least not with my Switchable T410S on integrated. And from what i can read, no longer supported on the T410s with integrated graphics (not switchable).

Oh, with switchable I can understand that only the discrete one works with two external displays.

But I will be shocked to learn that models which come with integrated only cannot support two external displays.

dr_st wrote:Oh, with switchable I can understand that only the discrete one works with two external displays.

But I will be shocked to learn that models which come with integrated only cannot support two external displays.

Hi, Just googled around for it, and I can't find the page where I read this. But I did find a number of links where people use the ThinkPad Mini Dock Series 3 to drive several external displays from the integrated model, but apparently not entirely without problems.

http://www.thinkpads.com/forum/viewtopi ... 45&t=84732
http://208.74.204.134/t5/T400-T500-and- ... light/true

http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/T400-T500-a ... m-p/240989

But it's pretty annoying that I cant drive external ones on integrated in the docking station ... it gets really hot as the point where it is sitting is just the place where it builds up heat.

If this part of the thread is going any further we might start a new one ... I think we are drifting off thread here.

Hmm, I see a common thread between these problems being T400s/T410s for corporate use. I had my T400s for over a year, ordered it on a day of introduction. I owned close to half a dozen of ThinkPads in the last 8+ years, T400s is my favorite and the most rock solid. Also, these problems described above are not so common @NBR forum either. So it makes me wonder about the quality of T4x0s built for consumer use versus corporate use. At work I still use T60 which is awful in comparison to my own T60 at home. Could it be possible they use parts that didn’t quite pass quality control for consumer use (or yield failures) and stuff them into T4x0s designated for corporate use?

Not very likely...

What is 'awful' in your corporate T60 compared to your personal one?

twister6 wrote:So it makes me wonder about the quality of T4x0s built for consumer use versus corporate use. At work I still use T60 which is awful in comparison to my own T60 at home. Could it be possible they use parts that didn’t quite pass quality control for consumer use (or yield failures) and stuff them into T4x0s designated for corporate use?

I have never seen any evidence in any Thinkpad line that consumer laptops were built any differently or had different parts inside vs. Corporate use machines. In fact most of the used machines sold on EBay (as an example) are purchased in large lots and are off Corporate lease. I've owned many of these and had them apart hundreds of times and have not seen a single difference. The fact that there is as yet some unidentified difference or differences between your work T60 and your home T60 is simply coincidence. I have a work issued T60 that has been running like a clock for over 3 years.

Do you think there is a heat difference between the i3-370M and the i5-520M?

Danoc wrote:Do you think there is a heat difference between the i3-370M and the i5-520M?

Both CPUs are rated at 35 watts so no.

Statistically speaking each CPU is unique so there can be slight deviation from the average heat rating. In terms of real world sampling, some CPUs may be a little hotter and others a little cooler.

@dr_st: by "awful" I mean amount of failures and repairs. The previous T23 was not an exception. I spoke on a few occasions with our IT guys, and they always joke about us getting outdated rejects. I still believe there is a difference between consumer oriented orders and corporate orders (like in our company where they get tenth of thousands of laptops at once).

Overall, forum such as this and NBR are typical for people complaining about their problems. How often do you hear posts praising something? Not that often. But once there is a problem, people turn to internet and these specialized forums. Doesn't matter if it’s a computer or car; the same attitude. That is why I was surprised to read such a negative post about T400s/T410s, and don't want other visitors to get a wrong impression about such a great product. For example, NBR forum is more consumer and college student oriented, and I don't recall reading about any catastrophic failure numbers with "s" models. And even if you get a lemon or something breaks down the road, Lenovo repair service is bar none.

twister6 wrote: Overall, forum such as this and NBR are typical for people complaining about their problems. How often do you hear posts praising something? Not that often. But once there is a problem, people turn to internet and these specialized forums. Doesn't matter if it’s a computer or car; the same attitude. That is why I was surprised to read such a negative post about T400s/T410s, and don't want other visitors to get a wrong impression about such a great product. For example, NBR forum is more consumer and college student oriented, and I don't recall reading about any catastrophic failure numbers with "s" models. And even if you get a lemon or something breaks down the road, Lenovo repair service is bar none.

And because you have had great success with your one T400s, you can positively state that the product as a whole is flawless, and therefore no one else anywhere should be complaining? And me coming here to see if anyone experiencing issues with their T4x0s deployment is giving people the wrong impression? While I am by no means trying to say that the T400s as a series is a piece of crap, I can say with certainty that the ones in my company are. Granted they were all ordered at the same time, so they very well could have all gotten a batch of bad parts. But that wouldn't explain why even after being fixed, they still fail.

Anyways. Figured i'd provide an update. Since creating this thread two more T400s in my office alone failed again. One with a video issue (two inch black abr down the middle of the screen), and the other wouldn't shut down (normally fixed with a mobo swap, but sometimes not). Our solution was to take back the users T400s and give them T410s's instead.

Our current plan is looking like we will pull all of our T400s off the floor and replace them with the T410s we have on hand. And we are now in the process of deciding whether to continue with the s series or just revert back to the regular T Series, in this case the T410.

Lenovo is still putting one of our T400s through its paces to see what it comes up with. Lenovo is working with us on our T410s issues as though seem to be more software based than the hardware based problems we saw on the T400s. From what I've read and seen elsewhere so far these problems don't seem rampant but do seem to be occurring with the T400s more than normal.

Amazingracer wrote:And because you have had great success with your one T400s, you can positively state that the product as a whole is flawless, and therefore no one else anywhere should be complaining? And me coming here to see if anyone experiencing issues with their T4x0s deployment is giving people the wrong impression? While I am by no means trying to say that the T400s as a series is a piece of crap, I can say with certainty that the ones in my company are. Granted they were all ordered at the same time, so they very well could have all gotten a batch of bad parts. But that wouldn't explain why even after being fixed, they still fail.

Hang on in there, just take a sip of morning coffee and relax. You completely misunderstood my post since I wasn't attacking you personally or questioning you integrity (unless you work for Dell, j/k ). I was just suggesting that 90%-100% failure of all of your T400s laptops in the company might not be necessary a wide spread problem across all of them but rather specific to your corporate order. I'm, being a fanboy of Thinkpads, wanted to bring up a point for those who replied to your post about having second thoughts in purchasing T4x0s because they afraid of 90% chance of getting a bad machine. That's all. It’s a sad reality that to compete with other brands and to bring the cost of their machines down, Lenovo has cut a lot of corners using cheaper mainstream displays in their T series and lower quality plastic (I already have 2 cracks in my T400s case). Nothing is perfect. And also it’s very common for people who are visiting forums before making a purchase to get hit with a ton of negative comments because when people are happy with their purchases they usually don’t make an attempt to find a forum to post their praises.

Sorry to hear about your T400s problems. Kind of reminds me how 3 years ago I purchased newly introduced ES350 with a failed tranny that got replaced twice and still failed until Lexus had to buyback it and I moved up to GS350. That was also my analogy of computer and car forums