T510 - The end of an era?

[woodser]

I'v been a Thinkpad user since 1998. Never used anything else. I received my T510, with Mini Dock and Lenovo wireless mouse/keyboard two weeks ago. I have a number of issues:

1) The battery has a significant amount of movement (> 1mm) at each side. It actually rattles when I carry the laptop around.
2) When I connect speakers to the docking station, there is a loud crackle/hiss from the speakers. When the speakers are directly connected to the T510, there is no crackle.
3) The wireless mouse regularly loses signal with the laptop for a second or two.
4) The fingerprint reader works intermittently

To be fair to Lenovo customer service, they sent a new dock station and battery within two days. However, the problems are exactly the same with the new parts.

The fingerprint reader now seems to be working ok (after a BIOS and driver update) The docking station, mouse and battery issues look to me like design flaws, rather than faulty units. Is this the kind of quality we can now expect from Lenovo?

My dilemma now is what to do next. I've invested a lot of time setting up the new machine. Should I ask for a new T510 (maybe hold on to the existing hard drive?) or should I return the whole lot and end the Thinkpad love affair?

[nikki605]

I can only respond to your #3. I bought a MS notebook mouse 5000 to go with my T410. I don't know at what point your mouse loses signal, but mine will keep working as long as I am using it fairly constantly. If I let it sit for a few minutes, I have to "wiggle" it to get it working again. I think this is by design - I think the mouse "powers off" to conserve batteries.

Also, with the mouse I have, it goes through the 2 AAA batteries pretty fast. I've already had to replace my first set and when they started to get real weak, losing signal with the TP was the first indication.

My T410 battery does not move, but that's apples-and-oranges to your T510.

[Colonel O'Neill]

1) It's mostly a design feature to allot for thermal expansion and contraction and for the battery being inserted at a different temperature to the chassis (battery warmer/bigger, chassis cooler/smaller) but rattling is kinda a bit serious. My battery does not rattle, despite being dropped (with laptop and by itself) a few times.
2) Might be a ground-loop interference phenomenon. Caused by having both speakers and dock plugged into the same power line (may be a different outlet connected to the same line)
3) Dunno. I have a MS Notebook 5000 as well (courtesy of a kind friend) and it doesn't lose signal. It does, however, go into power saving mode which does indeed take some wiggling.
4) Not exactly about it, but I dropped mine one too many times and the FPR gave. QQ

[woodser]

Hi and thanks for the replies....

Colonel - yup, rattling is a little bit too serious for my liking. I could attempt to wedge something in to prevent the rattle, but I don't see why should I have to do this with an €1,800 Thinkpad?
I'll try connecting the speakers to a different power source. That sounds like it might work.

Nikki - the mouse loses signal during normal usage. I don't think it's a power saving feature.

Lenovo called me this morning and asked me to bring the laptop to a repair centre.
I'm not happy to do this with a laptop that is two weeks old, so I have requested a new machine.
Will let you know how I get on....

[732]

The mouse problem is definitely a powersave problem or mouse issue/design to save batteries.

[woodser]

It's definitely not a powersave issue. How could it be designed to cut out while you're using it????

[sir_synthsalot]

My wireless mouse does something like that and it's because my USB receiver is on the opposite side of the laptop. If I bring it over to the same side it works very smoothly. When it is on the opposite side I noticed it cuts out and becomes choppy when the CPU is put under high load. Again if I move it to the same side it works just fine. Not exactly sure why this happens but I've found a sweet spot where I get good signal towards the rear right corner of the laptop.

My R500 battery does move around a little bit as well, and it was mentioned in one review I've read.

[Colonel O'Neill]

What happens if you try to use the mouse with the wifi off and far from any other electronics?

I remember some people having said they used double sided tape to get rid of the rattle. (Wedging something in there would probably make the battery act as a lever and put a lot more stress on the clips holding it in place.)

[jasonjason]

My issues are different, but in response to the subject line, I can only sadly agree.

1. Got my new T510 a month ago. The CPU hiss was unbelievably loud. Its like a big snake was living in there trying to get out.

2. The screen would have colour fade ever so often. I thought it was a power save feature, but doubt it - colours all just leach out.

Returned it, but swapped out the HDD, too busy to re-install everything new.

1. Hiss still present, softer, but still present.

2. Screen colour fade still present. Will eventually try to reinstall video drivers.

Those were the 'broken' issues.
Then there are the 'wish it could be better' list.

1. Bought an extended battery and integrated graphics so that I could get better life. So far, my T510 still does come close to my T40, though this includes occasional wi-fi usage. T510 not much better than T60, if at all.

2. Screen width ratio. People have different preferences, I personally think 4:3 is better, but certainly at 15:9, 15" is just inconvenient to stuff into a backpack.

3. Fingerprint reader and palmrest flex. Lots of creaking and noise as I type. I can live with this, but my T60 had less noise.

4. TVT software still dies too often, though the reinstallation is quick. But the first time I had to troubleshoot took forever.

[pianowizard]

My issues are different, but in response to the subject line, I can only sadly agree.

I remember your earlier post about getting a new laptop for school. I didn't respond, but thought that you should have just kept using your T60, which remains one of the best Thinkpads ever made, whether by IBM or Lenovo. When compared with such a fine machine, many laptops would disappoint.

[Colonel O'Neill]

1. Got my new T510 a month ago. The CPU hiss was unbelievably loud. Its like a big snake was living in there trying to get out.

Have you tried disabling CPU power management in Power Manager? Two of my friends both have T510's and one has a T410 (all i5-540M's) and don't report any CPU whine at all.

2. The screen would have colour fade ever so often. I thought it was a power save feature, but doubt it - colours all just leach out.

If this only happens when on battery, then this is an Intel power saving thing. Open the Intel control panel and find the Power Options. Hit Custom then move the slider to Maximum Battery or disable that feature altogether. This issue has been widely reported and can be found by a few searches.
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=85986

1. Bought an extended battery and integrated graphics so that I could get better life. So far, my T510 still does come close to my T40, though this includes occasional wi-fi usage. T510 not much better than T60, if at all.

One of my friends has a T510 with discrete and the extended 9-cell and gets approximately 7-8 hours on it at school. That said, however, the other friend with a T510 has discrete and a 6-cell and gets approximately 2 hours out of it. The primary difference is that the former ordered a 32-bit preload, and the latter a 64-bit preload. Granted there are a few more differences, but not much otherwise.

2. Screen width ratio. People have different preferences, I personally think 4:3 is better, but certainly at 15:9, 15" is just inconvenient to stuff into a backpack.

It's actually 16:9 but including the entire chassis the laptop is much closer to 16.5" diagonally. And yeah it is a bit bulky to wield.

3. Fingerprint reader and palmrest flex. Lots of creaking and noise as I type. I can live with this, but my T60 had less noise.

You could try tightening (or sometimes loosening) the screws on the palmrest. The T510 I saw had a negligibly dull click when you press down on a very, very, VERY specific part of the left palmrest.

4. TVT software still dies too often, though the reinstallation is quick. But the first time I had to troubleshoot took forever.

Perhaps elaborate on this point? The TVT software generally works fine for me, although I junked Toolbox for Productivity Centre and ditched Access Connections (non-preload 7x64).

[Bánh mì]

1) It's mostly a design feature to allot for thermal expansion and contraction and for the battery being inserted at a different temperature to the chassis (battery warmer/bigger, chassis cooler/smaller) but rattling is kinda a bit serious. My battery does not rattle, despite being dropped (with laptop and by itself) a few times.
2) Might be a ground-loop interference phenomenon. Caused by having both speakers and dock plugged into the same power line (may be a different outlet connected to the same line)
3) Dunno. I have a MS Notebook 5000 as well (courtesy of a kind friend) and it doesn't lose signal. It does, however, go into power saving mode which does indeed take some wiggling.
4) Not exactly about it, but I dropped mine one too many times and the FPR gave. QQ

I don't buy your thermal expansion theory because I have used many Thinkpads and some have the rattling and some don't. Some have different degrees of rattling. Most of the ones I have used however DO NOT rattle at all nor do they wobble. This includes different sized batteries ie smallest to largest available for the particular model. It's simply luck of the draw.

[Colonel O'Neill]

Well, for your assertion to counter my claim (which, TBH, is a bit of a guess), all of your laptops would have to have acclimatized to identical temperatures and still have certain laptops with rattling batteries. My 6-cell has recently started rattling slightly because of another (yes, another ) tumble. It was in a sleeve though. But my 4-cell continues to be rattle free. Perhaps simply due to it's smaller nature.

Regardless, whether or not you accept the changes in quality control is up to you. To me, the battery rattling a bit is really irrelevant; I don't encounter situations where a rattling battery pack is a problem.

[jasonjason]

Hi Colonel,

Thanks for the suggestions. Will go try them out.

Would have liked to have kept with the T60, which was the plan, but a light-fingered chap who took the laptop out of my bag while it was next to me, then zipped it back up meant that I had to get a replacement. So much for all the CCTVs in this country.

Access Connections and Power Manager need to be reinstalled ever so often.
Fingerprint reader itself is loose when I use it. Wondering if some superglue would hurt, or help.

[Colonel O'Neill]

Sorry about your stolen ThinkPad; it sucks when people take stuff like that.

Could you explain a bit more about the symptoms regarding Access Connections and Power Manager? What kind of errors does it give? Are the services failing to start?

[woodser]

Hi all and many thanks for all the posts and advice...

Unfortunately, this issue is ongoing...

Lenovo refused to replace my laptop and told me to bring it to the nearest service centre (over 50 miles away).
I refused. Why should I have to waste my time and money to return a brand new faulty laptop???
After much discussion and posturing, they reluctantly agreed to send an engineer on-site. He came and replaced the mother board and some other parts.

The original problems remained, but when he was finished replacing the parts, the trackpoint would not work at all. Neither would the fingerprint reader. The case hadn't snapped back properly and the right mouse button was sticking up at an angle from the keyboard. Obviously, I wasn't overjoyed at the state of my new €2K laptop. He came back a few days later with more parts but still could not get the trackpoint or fingerprint reader working.

After more phone calls and e-mails, Lenovo agreed to replace my machine. I received the 'new' machine, which turned out to be a refurbished model, with a badly scratched case and fingerprint reader. I informed them immediately and refused to accept it. They told me to ship it back. Again, I refused to pay for this and (after many more calls and e-mails) they eventually agreed to arrange for a courier to come and collect it.

The second machine was collected two weeks ago today by their courier. However, (after numerous unanswered e-mails) Lenovo informed me today that "they have not received the laptop back and nobody from Lenovo or IBM arranged for this laptop to be collected". I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. Luckily I had a collection receipt from their courier and was able to track down the laptop. I have now forwarded the collection and tracking information to them and await their response.

So, having paid for my new laptop back in early August, I am still waiting for a properly functioning machine.
Yes, I'm having a good moan, but I feel quite entitled to.

I would recommend any prospective ThinkPad buyers to think long and hard before ordering online from Lenovo.

Barry

[Colonel O'Neill]

You might be able to get some more help if you posted your case over on the Lenovo Forums. The local staff there are generally willing to make an attempt at remedying the situation on your behalf.

[woodser]

Hi Colonel and thanks for the tip...

I have also posted on that forum. Hopefully somebody may offer to help...

Barry

[wern_er]

Hi - about sound output - this problem I have on T61 and Mini Dock and X230 and Ultrabase dock (2 pieces of X230 and docks). It is problem of dock design. Noise is most heard-able when I use headphones on low volume and scrolling with mouse on web for example. When I plugged AC into laptop directly (on X230 it is possible - dock is fully powered) than sound is more better without noise. The another solution is headphones directly to laptop. So dock is not fulfilling its purpose on 100% ...