Thinkpads Forum

This is some epic saga ...

Had an X31 for years, loved it. Best little laptop ever. Was getting old though, looked around, decided to spend the extra money on a Thinkpad - extra durable, reliable, good warranty.

Got the thing (thing being a T400s direct from Lenovo) a month or so ago, and it's sucked the life out of my computing every since. The palm rest wasn't installed correctly (creaking plus a tweaked up corner), the left side LCD bezel was lose, and then ... the screen broke. It broke while I used my thumb pushing against the right side bezel to adjust the viewing angle (and that screen sure needs a lot of angle adjusting!).

Really. The supposed ueber tough Thinkpad, my thumb adjusting the screen, wrecked it.

So, the whole experience has been a total failure. At least I figured that there is warranty. Buy brand new, from Lenovo, the top of the line, should be good.

Failed, again. Got a message from them today saying that both the palm rest and the screen were not covered by warranty. Now this is a completely pristine, flawless, month old laptop that never left my desk. Quoted $950 for repair. I'm unable to even express how very badly this whole experience makes me want to never ever buy anything from Lenovo again.

What are my options? I don't mean to rain on the Thinkpad lover parade, but there has to be some way to at least get some version of functioning laptop for my money?

Help, please!! :-/

There have been 684 threads started here on T400s's, and not one of them by someone who broke the LCD with their thumb. So, what comment were you looking for as a result of your thread? Unless you pay for an LCD replacement you'll be stuck using an external LCD. There is no other answer unless you can get Lenovo to change their minds. Most of us here would probably replace the LCD ourselves for not any more than $150. If that's what you want to do we can help you get the right LCD.

Well, apparently others think it happens: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=91564

And truly, would you spend $1,800 on a "rugged" laptop and accept a bogus warranty claim dismissal just rolling over? I figured I wasn't the first person to ever have this experience, and there to be some way to most effectively get justifiable resolution.

If worse comes to worse I'll definitely appreciate insights in how to replace the LCD. It would be the most egregious failure in product support I'd have ever witnessed though.

Good luck. Nobody from Lenovo works here (and visits here), and the staff is volunteer. Yell all you want, we'll listen ... but can't do a thing for you.

wayandrs wrote:Well, apparently others think it happens: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=91564

One other user who thinks there may have been some uncited reports of screen problems, doesn't make anything much apparent at all.

The point - screen breaks from very minimal pressure after a month, pristine system, no drops, no impact. It's a legit warranty claim.

Has really nobody ever had a warranty issue with Lenovo that was denied unjustly and they then had to find a way to get resolved?

Call them back and go up the chain. They tried that crap on the 2 T400s laptops I have when there was broken plastic - LCD bezel on one, palm-rest on the other. Neither was from abuse. It happened around a month after purchase. The first person I worked with was useless. I called back a few days later and they were very accommodating. I don't trust their "depot" very much though. I do the repairs myself to avoid the whole bogus "you damaged it" stuff for things that are due to design flaws. Chalk it up to cutting corners like all the other laptop manufacturers these days.

FYI, many credit cards include accidental protection on purchases. If you used a credit card, you can check that route to repair.

I've handled T400s and T410s machines, their LCD assemblies are incredibly thin. These 14" LCD machines only weighs 4 lbs. As with the T40 series and their failures from chassis flexing, perhaps the design is just beyond what should be reasonably released to the masses.

All portable computers (save ToughBooks) should be treated with care, the thinnest and lightest from a manufacturer, even more so. Perhaps prospective buyers should consider Lenovo accidental protection warranty upgrades for these machines?

What I am trying to understand and it is not very clear from your two threads:

You say that you were adjusting the LCD and it broke - do you mean that something snapped physically, or (as appears from your other thread) - the image became corrupted?

Is there any sign of physical damage to the LCD / bezel?

underclocker wrote:All portable computers (save ToughBooks) should be treated with care, the thinnest and lightest from a manufacturer, even more so. Perhaps prospective buyers should consider Lenovo accidental protection warranty upgrades for these machines?

Funny, I've thrown my T400 around like a textbook (falls, tumbles, being sat on, tripping and getting crushed under, squished between me and a bus pole [bus driver slammed on the brakes while I was unsupported ], being used as a melee weapon, dropping three feet onto concrete [laptop bag broke, almost zero padding on that bag], etc.) and it still works.

Also funny, the reason it died (partially) was that I screwed up dismantling the lid assembly for cleaning. I forgot the HMM's instructions so I was liberal with unscrewing things, the LCD panel ended up faceplanting onto the keyboard and breaking the 40-pin connector.

Such is the life of my poor T400.

EDIT: Fingerprint reader did fail, but I think that was due to repetitive static shocks. Microphone also failed for whatever bizarre reason; probably a mild defect from the factory that was aggravated.

There is an actual crack in the LCD - but the bezel is completely undamaged (not so much as a scuff mark on it). The LCD cracked when I pushed against the plastic bezel about a third of the way up from the bottom, to adjust the screen angle.

Even if Lenovo replaces it, I'm still concerned about the LCD being quite this fragile. I travel for work, and my laptops are usually exposed to quite a bit of the knocking around. Nothing ever broke before, except for this one ... and that with it sitting on my desk!

dr_st wrote:What I am trying to understand and it is not very clear from your two threads:

You say that you were adjusting the LCD and it broke - do you mean that something snapped physically, or (as appears from your other thread) - the image became corrupted?

Is there any sign of physical damage to the LCD / bezel?

How do you avoid the depot? Would they just send replacement parts?

CoolRunnings wrote:Call them back and go up the chain. They tried that crap on the 2 T400s laptops I have when there was broken plastic - LCD bezel on one, palm-rest on the other. Neither was from abuse. It happened around a month after purchase. The first person I worked with was useless. I called back a few days later and they were very accommodating. I don't trust their "depot" very much though. I do the repairs myself to avoid the whole bogus "you damaged it" stuff for things that are due to design flaws. Chalk it up to cutting corners like all the other laptop manufacturers these days.

underclocker wrote:All portable computers (save ToughBooks) should be treated with care, the thinnest and lightest from a manufacturer, even more so.

Well said. I always baby all my laptops, including the ones that some people claim to be "indestructible". If I ever wanted a laptop that I can abuse, I would definitely buy something that's at least an order of magnitude cheaper than what the OP paid for his T400s, say a used T30 or 600X.

Colonel O'Neill wrote:Funny, I've thrown my T400 around like a textbook

The OP and underclocker were referring to the T400s and T410s, which are lighter and thinner than the T400 and thus more fragile.

True, although the OP implied a general reduction in durability under the name "ThinkPad". underclocker referred to all non-Toughbooks. Just clarifying that the fragility seems to be restricted to the s-subseries.

It's also possible that the batch of LCD's they sourced for the T4x0s is abnormally prone to failure. Perhaps consider replacing it yourself with one obtained from eBay.

IIRC, the 14" T61 had the wide bezel to re-enforce the LCD, which they found had issues with cracking, I wonder if shifting the screen over to the middle weakened it. On a related note, I had an acer laptop that had the screen break, and acer said that you should never put anything on the back of the screen, including flat things like textbooks, so they did not replace it. After the keyboard wore out, I sold it and got the T41.

Good luck with getting it fixed.

I thought the off-center screen was so that the antenna wire could be threaded on the left to reduce the effect of the magnesium alloy plate that would block the wifi-signals. On my T400 with the same off-center screen, there is a wifi antenna wire that lies on the left side under the wide bezel.

Acer laptops are not ThinkPads.

I noticed that acers are not thinkpads (especially the cheapest ones that walmart sells ), but during that adventure I found out that screen damage is almost always considered to be caused by the consumer, and therefore will not be covered by the standard warranty. I may be way off in left field about the bezel, but I am sure I read it somewhere. Either way, it provides a nice place to put your thumb to move the screen without getting fingerprints all over it.

Well, apparently I'm not crazy.

A supervisor at IBM Depot Support admitted that the T400s had a known hinge issue, which can cause the LCD to break. So there, for those who say "there are no known issues, you're on your own".

Apparently a completely vertical failure of the LCD right by the hinge is a strong indicator that this one was a machine that had the hinge problem. Furthermore complaining enough till getting up the chain enough to get a real answer also works well.

Better than assuming this thing is ok to break from no impact, and just rolling over on warranty rejection.

wayandrs wrote:Well, apparently I'm not crazy.

A supervisor at IBM Depot Support admitted that the T400s had a known hinge issue, which can cause the LCD to break. So there, for those who say "there are no known issues, you're on your own".

Thank you for pursuing this issue, for those of us with T400s machines. Have you then made any headway on warranty service.? Mine has stood up so far but would like to know that it's covered just in case.

Mike

So the laptop is being repaired, at no charge. Which really it should be, but I still found out a couple of valuable lessons:

1) There is an issue depot support admits to with hinges on some T400s that can cause the LCD to break.

2) This seems to be the case only for LCDs that break right over the hinge, and vertically only. Diagonal breaks, still usually a sign of abuse.

3) Depot communication sucks all around. Nobody responds to the IBM site depot status e-mails, people are out sick without a notice on their voicemail, escalation team doesn't call even if they say they will. Key seems to be to be polite, but very much persistent. Otherwise you just might get stuck in eternal repair hold or not get what you wanted.


I still like how light the unit is, but the battery life is terrible, warranty support is dubious at best, and overall quality is definitely not what I'd expect out of an $1,800 machine. Especially one that clearly hasn't had anything invested in battery management (TimlineX, anyone? 9 hours, under four pounds, 14" screen?). Buying one of these, in hindsight, is more Thinkpad fanboy-ism than really getting your money's worth. IMHO.

wayandrs wrote:Buying one of these, in hindsight, is more Thinkpad fanboy-ism than really getting your money's worth.

Well said. I was a Thinkpad fanboy for a long time and used Thinkpads almost exclusively. But several months ago, I decided to sell all my Thinkpads to try other brands, and bought the four non-Thinkpad laptops listed in my signature. All four far exceeded my expectations, and the Panasonic CF-Y4 in particular has impressed me more than any of the 44 Thinkpads I have owned.

wayandrs wrote: I still like how light the unit is, but the battery life is terrible, warranty support is dubious at best, and overall quality is definitely not what I'd expect out of an $1,800 machine.

Well I get about 5 hours from a battery in general use which works for me. Overally, I am happy and have had better warranty experience still with IBM than with other companies. It is true that you can get a run around on the phone by ill informed agents. But in the end everything has been to my satisfaction.

Mike

With five hours I'd be thrilled.

Using a USB modem (add two watts of power use), non-ssd drive (add a watt of power), I barely get three hours. Less than two if I'm playing videos.

That's with Windows 7, all the fancy things turned off, nothing CPU hogging.

Wayandrs isn't the only one---although my T400S was otherwise perfect. Soon after the warranty expired, I once opened the lid using only one hand. Unlike my usual careful lifting both edges of the bezel, my thumb was on the upper corner of the screen past the edge of the bezel. Zap, that was it---broken LCD. No excessive force, no violence, no impact, just my thumb against a corner of the screen lifting against the hinge friction. I suspect my thumb accidentally discovered the optimal distance from the edge to to cause critical distortion from the plane. I can suspect a weak spot from manufacturing flaws but it's out of warranty so that's moot. I love the computer and want to repair it.

If someone here has replaced the LCD on a T400S, I'd appreciate your advice. I've studied several videos, instruction sets, and the Lenovo Maintenance manual for the machine but the procedure isn't clear enough. The T400S with its thin design is different from the laptops shown in the videos. Here are my questions:
1. From the manual, it appears the bezel is held by only two screws and lots of tabs. By removing the two screws at the bottom, does this allow enough play to lift the sides of the bezel without breaking the tabs. Is there a good way to do this?
2. The manual seems to say that screen removal only requires that the bezel be off and the LCD cable be detached. No frame screws, no inverter stuff. Can anyone confirm this?
3. How difficult is it to replace the bezel without breaking the tabs?
4. I may have a choice between matte and glossy LCD replacements. The original is matte. I know the relative advantages of each in principle but not for the T400S in practice. Does anyone have any strong opinions on which to choose. I'm leaning towards glossy.

Grateful in advance for any advice.

wayandrs wrote:With five hours I'd be thrilled.

Using a USB modem (add two watts of power use), non-ssd drive (add a watt of power), I barely get three hours. Less than two if I'm playing videos.

That's with Windows 7, all the fancy things turned off, nothing CPU hogging.

I have X200s (HDD, SL9600, CCFL) with Vista SP2 clean install. One day i've got Windows 7 (retail build) a try, did a clean install, installed all drivers etc... and battery life was something about 1.5-2 hours from a 4 cell battery and 5 hours from a 9 cell one. When playing videos, battery life went down to <1 hour from a 4 cell and <3 hours from a 9 cell (IIRC).
Should i say that under vista (installed from scratch in the same way) i experienced advertised 9+ hours of work from a 9 cell and 6 hours when playing videos from 9-cell?
So i'm stick with vista since then. Maybe that Enhanced Experience does the trick, maybe not, but i clearly am not going to do a clean Win7 install again.

On my T61 I have experienced the same thing - 5.5hrs battery life under vista, 4.5hrs under 7 and about 4.5hrs under xp. I like xp the most, so that is what I am using, but at some point I may consider moving up to vista, since 7 does not give a whole lot to me over vista, and my machine is licensed for vista and not 7.