T410/T410s or wait for new T-series?

[Shadowku]

I am currently deciding on a new laptop. I nearly decided on a T410s but then I came across thinkpads forum.
It seems like there are some potential quality issues if I order one and I won't know what I'll get because much of it seems to be based on chance. I've read that the T410 has better quality because its bigger and sturdier and I don't mind the extra thickness and weight. I would also get a much better battery life which is great.

Would I really have a better chance of getting a non-defective (not terrible screen and no squeaky palm rest etc) if I go with the T410 instead of the T410s? Money is not an issue for me as I intend to get the best laptop that suits me.

Also, CES starts early January and I'm not sure if I should just wait and see if a newer model will be announced (T20/T20s?).
Is it likely that Lenovo will be announcing new laptops?
By the way are there any news about new laptops? I haven't heard about anything yet.

[penartur]

There already were news about new SandyBridge-based IdeaPads, the stated release date is 2011 beginning, so there is a great chance that new thinkpads would be released as well. It is more than likely that lenovo will at least announce new thinkpads on CES.

By the way, new ideapads model are Y460p and Y560p, there will be quad-core i7 inside and RapidDrive feature (hybrid SSD+HDD solution; SSD capacity will be 32GB, and HDD will be up to 750GB preinstalled).

[pianowizard]

Shadowku, welcome to the forum! I recommend you to wait for about 3 months to see what the next T4** will be like. In particular, there is a pretty high chance that the screen will be a 16:9 shortscreen instead of the current 16:10 widescreen, in which case the resolution may be limited to 1366x768 and so the current T41* would be the better choice. On the other hand, if the new T4** will continue to use 16:10, or if it's going to have 1600x900 resolution, that would be the one to get IMO.

Money is not an issue for me as I intend to get the best laptop that suits me.

If you want the absolute best laptop, then have you looked at other brands? Even though for a long time the Thinkpads had the reputation of being the best laptops, recent reliability surveys suggest otherwise. Still decent, but not the best.

[dr_st]

In particular, there is a pretty high chance that the screen will be a 16:9 shortscreen instead of the current 16:10 widescreen, in which case the resolution may be limited to 1366x768 and so the current T41* would be the better choice. On the other hand, if the new T4** will continue to use 16:10, or if it's going to have 1600x900 resolution, that would be the one to get IMO.

It will be 16:9 and it will offer 1600x900. No, I haven't got any inside information, but that's where everyone is going, I doubt Lenovo will be any different.

If you want the absolute best laptop, then have you looked at other brands? Even though for a long time the Thinkpads had the reputation of being the best laptops, recent reliability surveys suggest otherwise. Still decent, but not the best.

Reliability surveys in general are unreliable (pardon the pun). BTW, are you referring to more than one such survey. But the notion that there exists a laptop that's the "absolute best" also cannot be taken seriously. Thinkpads are good, as are other brands. Everyone has a horror story to tell about something, and people should just go with what they personally feel comfortable with.

[Shadowku]

There already were news about new SandyBridge-based IdeaPads, the stated release date is 2011 beginning, so there is a great chance that new thinkpads would be released as well. It is more than likely that lenovo will at least announce new thinkpads on CES.

I guess I will wait and see what happens at CES at the very least. I'm in no particular rush.

If you want the absolute best laptop, then have you looked at other brands? Even though for a long time the Thinkpads had the reputation of being the best laptops, recent reliability surveys suggest otherwise. Still decent, but not the best.

I have looked at other brands, and the main ones that I am interested in are ASUS, Sony and Lenovo. Apples are nice but I don't want OSX. I already have an ASUS so I thought I'd try something else. Another big reason I am considering an Lenovo is because I can get one at a big discount. I've also recently tried using a friend's ThinkPad and I really like the keyboard so this will be my first laptop where I actually like typing on it.

I recommend you to wait for about 3 months to see what the next T4** will be like. In particular, there is a pretty high chance that the screen will be a 16:9 shortscreen instead of the current 16:10 widescreen, in which case the resolution may be limited to 1366x768 and so the current T41* would be the better choice. On the other hand, if the new T4** will continue to use 16:10, or if it's going to have 1600x900 resolution, that would be the one to get IMO.

Considering what I need the laptop for I will probably stick with the T410/T410s if the new ThinkPad T-series has a 16:9 screen.
I really hope that won't be the case however.

[miketoro]

I've also recently tried using a friend's ThinkPad and I really like the keyboard so this will be my first laptop where I actually like typing on it.

This is what it all boils down to, for me. You can always find a different brand with better screens, faster guts (sometimes), better graphic options, less expensive (lord knows), but nothing beats a ThinkPad keyboard. The ThinkPad means the keyboard. This is also why the Lenovo use of chicklet boards on other models terrifies me. Ruining the panels I'll tolerate, apparently, but what do I do if they re-engineer the keyboard?

[Shadowku]

So far I am going to wait for CES for news of a new ThinkPad T-series.
If I like what I see then I will give it a few months and get the new model.
However if the new T-series is bad (16:9 aspect ratio or new keyboard) I will just get a T410/T410s.

Which of T410 and T410s is more recommended?
I like the small size and weight of the T410s but the battery life isn't so great.
The T410 is about a pound heavier and seems to have better build quality and an option for a 9 cell battery.

Are the problems with the T410s (squeaky palm rest and bad screen) very frequent?
I read more bad stuff about it than good stuff but I expect that people who are happy with the computer to be less likely to make a post about it. I'm just not sure how bad the problems are.

[anthean]

Shadowku, welcome to the forum! I recommend you to wait for about 3 months to see what the next T4** will be like. In particular, there is a pretty high chance that the screen will be a 16:9 shortscreen instead of the current 16:10 widescreen, in which case the resolution may be limited to 1366x768 and so the current T41* would be the better choice. On the other hand, if the new T4** will continue to use 16:10, or if it's going to have 1600x900 resolution, that would be the one to get IMO.

Right. If you like 16:9 and also need graphics card improvements (either the Sandy Bridge integrated graphics or the next generation discrete card), then wait. Otherwise, pick up a T410 or T410s now.

And while I like my T410 and am more than satisfied with its durability, it doesn't have the slimness or finish of my 6 year old T41.

Note that the most recent reliability survey in PC World finally split Dell and HP home from their business notebooks, and what a difference it makes (at least for HP business). I presume you would see something similar for Lenovo too, if it were split.

Just to mention, Toshiba also ranks highly in these surveys, and the Toshiba R700 looks nice, and I presume the follow-on will too.

[Shadowku]

Right. If you like 16:9 and also need graphics card improvements (either the Sandy Bridge integrated graphics or the next generation discrete card), then wait. Otherwise, pick up a T410 or T410s now.

I'm actually fine with the current specs. The processor and graphics work fine with what I intend to do with it. I am really waiting to see if a particular type of screen will be used on the new versions. I am also interested to see if they upgrade the battery for the new T410s (it'd be nice if they removed the disk drive for other things, perhaps optionally at least).

Note that the most recent reliability survey in PC World finally split Dell and HP home from their business notebooks, and what a difference it makes (at least for HP business). I presume you would see something similar for Lenovo too, if it were split.

Just to mention, Toshiba also ranks highly in these surveys, and the Toshiba R700 looks nice, and I presume the follow-on will too.

I am most definitely going to buy a business type laptop as I have not had great luck with the reliability of consumer models. I would also prefer a laptop with a trackpointer (I like them) and they are mostly found on business type laptops.

I'll look into other brands as well, however since I can get a big discount on Lenovos I will probably get a Txx0(s).

I think I will most likely be getting a T410 though. I feel that the new T series won't be what I'm looking for. But since I don't know anything about what's coming, anything can happen. I'm leaning more towards the T410 than the T410s.

Btw, I never buy extra warranty on anything. However I'm starting to think that it may be worth my while to get a 3-year warranty on my next laptop (whatever it may be).

[Shadowku]

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl ... rmd%3Divfd

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl ... rmd%3Divfd

There may be some bad translation there as the site isn't Google-translate friendly.
I don't know exactly what this means or if the information is even real. But it points towards a 16:9 aspect ratio on all new ThinkPads. Now I am really considering the T410 as I want no wider than 16:10.

Quite a bummer if its true, but at least there's Sandy-Bridge and a newer discreet graphics card available.

[pianowizard]

Reliability surveys in general are unreliable (pardon the pun). BTW, are you referring to more than one such survey.

We certainly can't rely on just one survey, but when all of them independently show similar patterns, then I start to take them seriously. In the past few years, Apple and Asus have been consistently at the top, whereas HP has been consistently at the bottom. Sony and Toshiba have usually been above average, Lenovo in the middle, and Dell a bit lower. I am happy with buying used, several-year-old laptops for now, but if I wanted to get a brand-new laptop right now, I would most likely get an Asus.

But the notion that there exists a laptop that's the "absolute best" also cannot be taken seriously.

Of course there isn't a laptop that is universally considered the absolute best, but there has got to be one that matches a particular user's criteria better than all other laptops.

people should just go with what they personally feel comfortable with.

And I call the laptop that you (or anyone else) feel the most comfortable with "the absolute best". In order to find such a laptop, one must not limit themselves to just one brand. Apparently the OP is indeed considering all brands, which is the right thing to do, but that wasn't clear from his original post and so I wanted to remind him.

Note that the most recent reliability survey in PC World finally split Dell and HP home from their business notebooks, and what a difference it makes (at least for HP business). I presume you would see something similar for Lenovo too, if it were split.

Well, I believe that in the States, Lenovo sales are heavily dominated by the Thinkpads, and so these scores already mainly reflect the reliability and service quality of the Thinkpads. There are still good reasons to buy Thinkpads (i.e. good keyboards, relatively low prices, and the TrackPoint), but there used to be two more reasons a decade or so ago: best reliability and best customer service.

Just to mention, Toshiba also ranks highly in these surveys, and the Toshiba R700 looks nice, and I presume the follow-on will too.

The Toshiba R705 is on sale right now on amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Port%C3%A ... 287&sr=8-1

Too bad the resolution is only 1366x768. On a 13.3" screen, I would prefer 1600x900.

[Colonel O'Neill]

Lenovo's at the top of a couple of rankings. I believe that one particular notebook reliability survey was due to the inclusion of the NVidia GPU failures that put Lenovo in at fourth. I haven't seen any other ones that put Lenovo at the middle.

"We also wanted to share this news from Spain: the Spanish Consumers' and Users' Organization ranked Lenovo #1 in notebook reliability. We thank them."
- Facebook fan site

ThinkPad's also been at the top of TBR's corporate satisfaction survey for six straight quarters.
http://news.lenovo.com/article_display. ... le_id=1391

As a side note, my friends with Asuses and Acers have experienced quite a few issues with their products, such as hinges coming loose in a matter of months, keyboard keys failing, and hard drive failures on both brands.

Also, 16:9? Sucks.

[pianowizard]

I believe that one particular notebook reliability survey was due to the inclusion of the NVidia GPU failures that put Lenovo in at fourth.

The Nvidia fiasco affected HP and Dell far worse than it did Lenovo (see http://nvidiasettlement.com/affectedmodels.html), and yet Dell wasn't far below Lenovo in these surveys.

I haven't seen any other ones that put Lenovo at the middle.

Google up the large-scale surveys by PC World, PC Magazine, and Square Trade.

[w0qj]

I'm a very satisfied customer of T410.

It would be brilliant if the upcoming T420 would have USB 3.0 as this would greatly speedup external USB data backup!

On the other hand, I'm horrified that T420 is rumoured to have 16:9 screen, it really kills productivity, as it is the vertical height that determines your productivity (try using MS Excel or Word).

My other wish had already happened--Optimus-enabled GPU on T410
(Now, I wish my T410 had this, but alas...)

[blackomegax]

as it is the vertical **height** that determines your productivity (try using MS Excel or Word).

**resolution.

1600x900 > 1440x900

[Shadowku]

I think the T420 is going to have a 16:9 aspect ratio though I don't know what the resolution will be. I guess we'll find out next month..

Anyway, thanks everyone. I think I will be settling with a T410 or T421s.. though I really can't decide. I'm going to make a new thread and ask for suggestions along with the configs and price that I can get it at.

I am going to pass up the T420 and T420s as I don't think I can get it at a deal when they come out. So rather than waiting for at least half a year I think I will just settle with the T410/T410s. I don't need the extra cpu power and the only thing I am interested in is a better battery for T4x0s.

[pianowizard]

1600x900 > 1440x900

That's how I see it as well. However, many people like to zoom to page width when viewing their documents, in which case a 16:9 shortscreen would require more vertical scrolling than a 16:10 widescreen. (The other day, I decided to start calling 16:9 a "shortscreen" from now on. 4:3 and 5:4 are "tallscreen", and 16:10 is "widescreen".)

There is another reason why some people may prefer 1600x900 over 1440x900. On a 14" screen, the pixel density of the former is rather high, causing eye strain. This problem could be remedied by using Windows' DPI setting to make things bigger, but by doing that the effective vertical real estate would go down.

[anthean]

The other day, I decided to start calling 16:9 a "shortscreen" from now on.

I've started calling them "squat screen".

"Come in and buy the new squat screen. Squatter is better !"

[newcomer]

Will Lenovo website still be offering T410(s)/510 after the new models are launched? If you're waiting for a new model release before purchasing the current T, you may be looking at losing the ability to configure the laptop to your specs since you will have to buy from other outlets. No other outlets other than Lenovo website allows consumers to configure their laptops before purchase. Besides, after a month of research and comparison, I find that Lenovo website is by far the cheapest place to get thinkpads with the ecoupons and whatnot.

In case you're thinking of buying a T now, I suggest you wait until after Christmas when demand drops. If it's of any worth, I have been recording the price history of T410 since Black Friday. Ironically, the lowest price was actually seen a week after Black Friday. Price hiked 15-20% from Dec 9th and has more or less plateaued. I believe price will drop 15-20% a week after Christmas, followed by a further drop in anticipation of the newer models. You could be looking at a savings of at least $200.

[Shadowku]

In case you're thinking of buying a T now, I suggest you wait until after Christmas when demand drops. If it's of any worth, I have been recording the price history of T410 since Black Friday. Ironically, the lowest price was actually seen a week after Black Friday. Price hiked 15-20% from Dec 9th and has more or less plateaued. I believe price will drop 15-20% a week after Christmas, followed by a further drop in anticipation of the newer models. You could be looking at a savings of at least $200.

I'm curious, what is the price for a base T410 now and the price of it before/right after black Friday from the Lenovo site you are looking at? I usually look at the Canadian site for prices but I only considered the T410 about two weeks ago so I don't know what the prices were like before. The price I am getting now is over 50% off for the configuration but I'm thinking of waiting for an even bigger discount.