6 New Thinkpads Officially Announced

[w0qj]

6 New Thinkpads Officially Announced:ThinkPad T420, T420s, T520, L420, L520 and the W520.
http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=6042

All of them seems to be 16:9 ratio screen

[pianowizard]

All of them seems to be 16:9 ratio screen

For me, that's a good thing for the T4** because the resolution went up from 1440x900 to 1600x900. But it's a bad thing for the T5** (and all larger laptops in general) because the resolution went down from 1920x1200 to 1920x1080.

[Colonel O'Neill]

There's a few new Youtube videos on the LenovoVision channel.
Apparently, the new designs are supposed to be 50% stronger than the designs of two years ago.

Kinda sucks that the T420 only has two USB ports and one eSATA port.

[AMATX]

AHA! Thx for the heads up. Probably explains why I saw a new-to-me TV commercial last night showcasing the T4xx(? couldn't tell for sure). Nifty little commercial that drew my attention, which doesn't happen with most pc commercials.

W520 caught my eye, as I need a power box. I'd prefer a W720, but not gonna happen. The W520 has most of what I want, so will check it out in more detail in coming weeks.

[Colonel O'Neill]

The company that does Lenovo's ads choose really spectacular music tracks, which sets them apart. It's classy.

IMO, the Lenovo Turbo Boost+ idea is a "why didn't the other manufacturers think of that" idea.

[dr_st]

Kinda sucks that the T420 only has two USB ports and one eSATA port.

That's gotta be a mistake. I remember it having 3 dedicated USB and one combo USB/eSATA. Of course it is still a downgrade in some way from T410 which had 4 dedicated USB and one eSATA, but with the transition to 16:9 chassis space was reduced a bit.

[smh]

If we are to believe this, then the T420 will not be available with quad core processors Or at least at the launch they won't.

Otherwise i like them, especially the T420s

[AMATX]

If we are to believe this, then the T420 will not be available with quad core processors Or at least at the launch they won't.

Otherwise i like them, especially the T420s

Well, that .pdf is already out of date on cpu chip speeds and max memory, so I wouldn't get your panties too ruffled up just yet

Will be interesting to see what the final production versions have on 'em...

[ssd_thinkpad]

T420s and W520 do have a flickering display:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=94404

Now lets search for panels or configuration options where the display does not flicker.

[Colonel O'Neill]

It's just a camera thing. Some past ThinkPad reviews have had flickering screens as well on camera.

[ssd_thinkpad]

It's just a camera thing. Some past ThinkPad reviews have had flickering screens as well on camera.

And these thinkpads had a bad display, too. You improve battery life by increase flickering, that's what they famously did for the x30x. And these are professional made official lenovo videos, sure no "cheap camera thing".

[Colonel O'Neill]

Define "bad" for the T510, W510, T520, W520. (I assume they use the same panels.) Exclude the HD panel due to known issues. Can you actually see the flickering with your eyes in reality?

[smh]

...is already out of date on cpu chip speeds and max memory...

What do you mean by that?

Another question: does anyone know if it will be possible to get a better gpu than the 4200M for the t420/t420s?

[ThinkRob]

And these thinkpads had a bad display, too. You improve battery life by increase flickering, that's what they famously did for the x30x.

Come again?

[AMATX]

...is already out of date on cpu chip speeds and max memory...

What do you mean by that?

Another question: does anyone know if it will be possible to get a better gpu than the 4200M for the t420/t420s?

Well, the pdf didn't list the higher cpu chip that was in the announcement, and the pdf doesn't mention 32G memory max, via 4 slots. Note that the pdf has a January date. Things often change going from prototype stage into production.

[Pirx]

I keep seeing 420 and 520 models, but has anything surfaced in regards to 420s (aside from unrealistic claims of working for 30 hours on a single charge)?

[Colonel O'Neill]

The 30 hours is a 9-cell standard + 9-cell slice on the T420. T420s is 10 hours with a 6-cell standard + Ultrabay battery.

[Pirx]

The 30 hours is a 9-cell standard + 9-cell slice on the T420. T420s is 10 hours with a 6-cell standard + Ultrabay battery.

Tempting, but I'd still go for 420s since it's a lot lighter. And, again, no data in tabook about 's' model.

[Colonel O'Neill]

The data's in tabook now.

[Pirx]

The data's in tabook now.

Comtraya! Found it!

Not sure what the end price would be (including warranty, etc.) but it looks like new 13" Macbook Pro with Core i7 will turn out cheaper than 420s with Core i5...

[sanjuro]

Not sure what the end price would be (including warranty, etc.) but it looks like new 13" Macbook Pro with Core i7 will turn out cheaper than 420s with Core i5...

This round of upgrade is bit of a yawner. Now that Apple has released quad core i7 for their mainstream 15" and 17" macbook pros, will Lenovo follow suite and release quad core i7 for 14", 15" & 17" notebooks?

[Colonel O'Neill]

T520 will have dual and quad Sandy Bridge options. T420/T420s are still dual, AFAIK.

W701 is now "resellers only" on the Canadian site. Has it been discontinued like the X30x or the X20xs? (Although apparently the X220s returns.)

[Pirx]

T520 will have dual and quad Sandy Bridge options. T420/T420s are still dual, AFAIK.

If I understand the niche for 420s - it shouldn't have quad core option, but it would be reasonable to expect HD/HD+ screens.

[aceo07]

I'd love for the T420s or X220(s/t) have quad core processors and support up to 16GB of RAM. Is that too much to ask?

I don't need the 32GB of the Ws.. but it'd be nice to have more than 8GB without going to W series or desktop.

During the videos, the only flickering is from the new laptops. The other displays in the background are fine.

[ssd_thinkpad]

During the videos, the only flickering is from the new laptops. The other displays in the background are fine.

It's not that the camera is bad or so. Some lenovo displays have arguable "quality". The x300 is known for its display quality. The x300 is flickering on youtube videos. The new lenovo displays are flickering on official youtube videos.

[Colonel O'Neill]

So... What exactly do flickering displays mean in terms of quality? Have you actually seen a laptop display flicker in person?

[ssd_thinkpad]

So... What exactly do flickering displays mean in terms of quality? Have you actually seen a laptop display flicker in person?

I have seen the x301 display. I have bought the x301 for around 2.000 USD. I gave it back the next day because of its inferior display. I got headaches from the display. From what I read on this forum, this is because the refresh frequency of the x300 display is changed to have more colors visible and to reduce power. I am not sure if I remember this correctly. You can check yourself the technical data of this display.

The x300 and x301 displays were flickering on youtube videos from private reviews. You can see videos comparing x300 and macbook air where the x300 is flickering and the air has a nice stable display.

Now I see the new thinkpad line with flickering videos, too. But this time they are official produced by lenovo.

[ssd_thinkpad]

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=74103

user Puppy

Well, but current notebook lcd panels (especially the X300 one) are the lowest quality lcd panels ever. LCD panels might flicker but the technical reason is something completely different than low refresh rate known for CRT monitors. See links on that page http://www.techmind.org/lcd/ namely the "An application note from Intersil, concerning Vcom-originating LCD flicker".

The issue you are experiencing might be related to technology called "dithering". Super cheap LCD panels (read: horrible crap) used in all current notebooks including $3000+ ThinkPad models are trying to cheat your eyes/brain to pretend to display more than 262 000 colors by fast switching of two colors. Depending on the color conditions you might experience the flicker effect.

It is like single-chip DLP projectors and well-known rainbow-effect, some people can't stand the technology at all while some others barely notice the issue. So if someone says "the X301 display does not flicker" it means "s/he didn't recognize it". Solution ? None ... buy old ThinkPad with IPS panel

(...)

user Curious

It's possible this "flicker" is caused by the pulse width modulation (PWM) of the led backlighting. Some users of Thinkpad x200 tablets and certain Apple Macs are complaining of severe eyestrain caused by too low a PWM frequency (around 90hz, in the case of the x200 tablet, according to one report). Apparently, even though the brain doesn't "see" the blinking, some sensitive eyes do, and the eye muscles trying to react causes the eyestrain. Brightness of LED-backlit screens is determined by how long the LED is lit each cycle. That means the problem is actually worse at lower brightness settings, where the pulse is more defined.

(...)

user Troels

It applies to both CCFL/LED. In laptops/desktop monitors/tvs, PWM is used regardless of whether it is CCFL or LED.
You vary the duty cycle of the PWM signal, when you dim/brighten the display. A 50% duty cycle means that through one cycle, the "enclosed" area of the PWM signal, is proportional to the power. PWM is used mainly because it doesn't require any load resistors, which in a normal situation would have a voltage drop across them and thus dissipate heat. This and the fact that you can get programmable PWM generators in a small IC makes it easier to use - imagine the need to switch between resistors in a voltage divider, in order to dim/brighten the display light. Eww.

But a frequency of 90 Hz is just crazily low -especially for LED. One is supposed to choose the frequency not to be a multiple of any of the lcd refresh rate parameters - and not so low that people will notice the flicker. There is NO phosphor or "memory" in leds to smoothen out the flickering, like in CRTs or CCFLs for that matter - turning on an off the voltage (or reversing polarity) repeatedly on leds will be highly visible until maybe something like 500-800 Hz at least. Remember that the eye is much more sensitive to changes near the corners of the eye sight, so it might need to be even higher.

EDIT: I see that for the HV121WX6-100 LCD, the PWM frequency is allowed to be between 200 and 350 Hz.
If that's the usual frequency i'd hate to own an LED backlit panel.

user Curious

Yeah, both LED and CCFL backlight lamps are dimmed using PWM. The difference is that (1) a CCFL lamp does not instantly stop emitting light the way an LED does, so the LED on/off makes for a more distinct flicker; and, more important, (2) CCFL tubes apparently have a PWM frequency in the khz, while LED's have a PWM frequency typically between 90hz and 500hz (one poster measured the x200 Tablet at 90hz; another measured two other laptops at 500 hz; I have measured a Toshiba A605-P10 at 200hz). If you Google the issue, you will find people reporting severe eyestrain for the x200 Tablet and some Macs.

[ThinkRob]

I have seen the x301 display. I have bought the x301 for around 2.000 USD. I gave it back the next day because of its inferior display. I got headaches from the display. From what I read on this forum, this is because the refresh frequency of the x300 display is changed to have more colors visible and to reduce power. I am not sure if I remember this correctly. You can check yourself the technical data of this display.

In the last two years I've had two T60s, a T43p, three X40s, an X61s, an X60s, an X200, an X200s, an X300, a T400, a T410, and a T500.

None of the displays flicker. 'could just be my luck.

[tpribors]

I was hoping USB3.0 would be on the new T520. I guess I'll be getting another W series for work.