Choice of ThinkPad?

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hunterman223 · #1 Post by **hunterman223** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:58 am

It's been a while since I've been on here!

I finally got around to selling my toshiba laptop and am in business for a thinkpad. I am looking for used, open box, or lenovo refurbished T400s and T500s, but have also looked at R400/500. Here are some links on ebay that I am watching. I am just looking for some opinions to help me decide. They seem expensive to those in the US, but it is actually quite a good deal. I actually got more here for my used toshiba than what I bought it for in dollars.

I have them listed in order of my preference at the moment, but now I have read that the *500s do not have LED screens. Can anyone confirm this? I am currently preferring the top one because of the WXGA+ screen, discrete graphics, and the 4GB of ram, but number 2 also has ATI graphics and includes a docking station, so I am pretty torn.

T400 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
R500 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
T400 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
R400 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
T400 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT
T400 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... K:MEWAX:IT

Thanks in advance, Hunter

Colonel O'Neill · #2 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 12:09 pm

Some T500's have a WXGA+ LED backlit screen.
The HD3470 GPU in the T400 kinda sucks. The T500 HD3650 GPU is considerably better. (You can overclock though

)

Any discrete T400/T500 should come with a 90W adapter... not a 65W adapter...

The T400's and R400's are structurally identical, whereas the R500 is built more so out of ABS plastic.

WXGA+ is definitely a benefit. The Txxxx CPU's also have more undervolting options than Pxxxx CPU's, so battery life should be about the same.

Have you tried checking your local Craigslist?

hunterman223 · #3 Post by **hunterman223** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:15 pm

Hi, you say that some T500s have the LED backlit display, is that also true for the T400s? Also is this true for the R series?

Right now I have Intel "HD"

processor graphics on my laptop, so I would assume that would be some kind of an upgrade. I had an R40, so I am used to the ABS plastic and don't mind it, but it would be nice to try the T series style casing. I don't think there is a craigslist in England.

Neil · #4 Post by **Neil** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 3:23 pm

http://london.craigslist.co.uk/

There may be others too, I didn't check.

hunterman223 · #5 Post by **hunterman223** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:55 pm

Thanks for the link. I guess I never really thought about craigslist over here. They have one for my area, but unfortunately no thinkpads listed. Any comments on the screens in the R series? And just to confirm, the R4/500 do not have a rollcage in the lid? Or am I mistaken? If so that's another thing to add to the list for the T400.

Colonel O'Neill · #6 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:02 pm

The R400 does, but the R500 doesn't. Not to say it's not durable, bot probably less so than the T500 counterpart.

hunterman223 · #7 Post by **hunterman223** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 5:09 am

Okay, can anyone comment on the screen quality of the CCFL backlit displays vs the LED variety?

Also, I said earlier that I have been using a laptop with intel HD processor integrated graphics. Would the T400 3470 GPU be better than this? I would think so since it has 256mb dedicated memory, while the intel does not.

Colonel O'Neill · #8 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:38 am

If you mean the Intel HD Graphics 3000, then no, the HD3470 would not be better than the Intel graphics. In fact, it's only about half as powerful. The HD3650 exceeds the Intel one, but not by much.

I had an LED backlit screen with my T400, and the reds sucked pretty bad:
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/4035/dsc00543m.jpg (displaying pure red)
For general usage, it's fine unless you want to edit photos.
Can't comment on CCFL ones.

hunterman223 · #9 Post by **hunterman223** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 12:03 pm

I'm not sure if it's the 3000. It's a Pentium Dual Core P6200, and the specs sheet just says intel HD graphics. I would assume it would be the lower end 2000 type, and probably the 3000 for the higher end core i* series, but I am just guessing.

Whoa. That's what the red's look like? That's orange!

Can anyone else confirm this?

Colonel O'Neill · #10 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:05 pm

AFAICT, it'll be the GMA 5700... doesn't seem like a Sandy Bridge generation IGP. In which case, the HD3470 will indeed be better.

And yeah, that is what the red looks like. Most other laptops are the same though. If you're looking solely at the laptop screen, it's not very noticeable unless you're photo editing. For regular web surfing it's fine. For watching videos, you might have to turn up the saturation some.

hunterman223 · #11 Post by **hunterman223** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:13 pm

It could be. All I know is I installed a driver from intel's website for intel HD 2nd generation processor graphics, and the specs say the same. Not a huge deal I suppose, but I wish better specifications would be released.

I opened paint on my toshiba laptop with an led screen, and the red appears about the same as your t400. I never noticed that before, but that reassured me that it won't be that noticeable since I like the screen on my toshiba. Thanks for all the great info.

Is there anything else that I should consider? A member on the forums has a really good deal on a T500.

Colonel O'Neill · #12 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:17 pm

The default red in Windows 7 paint is (237, 28, 36) rather than (255, 0, 0). Might make a difference, probably won't.

Better wifi is better, especially in places with lots of laptops like lecture halls.

The T500's HD3650 is way better than the HD3470. I've been trying to overclock the weaksauce HD3470 to play Crysis 2 better, but even then, it's still weaksauce. Depends what you need the graphics card for.

hunterman223 · #13 Post by **hunterman223** » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:38 pm

Oh, well I looked at the default red with Windows XP, so who know. I'll take your word that it's fine.

The models I am looking at all have 802.11n, so wifi should be good. I have read that the 3650 is as much as twice better than the 3470, but they seem to be harder to find. I mentioned earlier that someone on here has a T500 for sale, and it is fully loaded, including a 3650. I have pretty much decided on that one now, and I am just checking into a few things to be absolutely sure. Pretty exciting! I loved my good old R40, it got me hooked on thinkpads. I am hoping whatever I end up as will impress me just as much.

LegendaryKA8 · #14 Post by **LegendaryKA8** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:27 am

Colonel O'Neill wrote:The default red in Windows 7 paint is (237, 28, 36) rather than (255, 0, 0). Might make a difference, probably won't.

Better wifi is better, especially in places with lots of laptops like lecture halls.

The T500's HD3650 is way better than the HD3470. I've been trying to overclock the weaksauce HD3470 to play Crysis 2 better, but even then, it's still weaksauce. Depends what you need the graphics card for.

Interesting... you're getting Crysis 2 to run on the HD3470? I thought it wouldn't even go on the T500's HD3650!

To the OP, if you are needing the GPU power and don't mind the larger form factor, the T500 is the way to go. I'm not sure how intense these titles are, but I've been playing MW and MW2 as well as Far Cry 2 on medium-high settings with pretty smooth results. Haven't tried Crysis yet, but I could get it working on the T400 on mostly low settings. I only game at native resolutions, so if you're willing to deal with the slight 'fuzz' of gaming at lower resolutions(or deal with a T500 with the 1280x1800 LED display versus the 1680x1050 CFFL) your mileage will vary. Also, the T500 has the best graphics out of any T-series up to the T510. The newer Sandy Bridge models, the W510, and the W700/W701 have more punch, but that's about it.

hunterman223 · #15 Post by **hunterman223** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:47 pm

Every once in a while I do a little gaming, nothing hardcore or anything. I also only play at native resolution and usually sacrifice quality for screen resolution. The T500 I am considering is a 1680x1050 CCFL. Can anyone comment on the quality of this display vs. the WXGA LED one? I am also not used to very high resoltions, my previous laptops have only had XGA or WXGA screens. Will this be a huge shock for me? My eyesight on it's own is pretty terrible, but I can read small text/images etc. fine with my glasses.

LegendaryKA8 · #16 Post by **LegendaryKA8** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:57 pm

hunterman223 wrote:Every once in a while I do a little gaming, nothing hardcore or anything. I also only play at native resolution and usually sacrifice quality for screen resolution. The T500 I am considering is a 1680x1050 CCFL. Can anyone comment on the quality of this display vs. the WXGA LED one? I am also not used to very high resoltions, my previous laptops have only had XGA or WXGA screens. Will this be a huge shock for me? My eyesight on it's own is pretty terrible, but I can read small text/images etc. fine with my glasses.

I would say if you can, go to a big-box store and ask if they have any 15.6" laptops in 1600x900(this resolution is sometimes called HD+). It won't be quite as high resolution as the T500, but it should give you a good idea of what to expect on the T500. For me personally the 1680x1050 resolution is just fine, though I will admit that I am toying with the idea of getting a 1920x1200 display as I do quite a bit of writing and appreciate more vertical pixels whenever possible.

As far as display quality itself, it won't win any awards for outstanding color accuracy and clarity but it does fairly well. Viewing angles are about average. If you're doing professional photo apps and all of that I can see where things might leave a bit to be desired, but other than that it's a decent enough panel.

hunterman223 · #17 Post by **hunterman223** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:14 pm

I'll check that out. I'm sure it will be fine either way though, I knew someone with a high-res monitor and I used their computer occasionally. I actually thought it was quite comfortable, but it was a big PC monitor, 20-22", so I think the T500 would be a bit higher res.

That sounds fine to me, I was just wondering about LED vs CCFL, as I have used both and I find that it varies with the quality of the panel itself. I do think that the whites and blacks tend to be better on LED displays.

Colonel O'Neill · #18 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:19 pm

LegendaryKA8 wrote:Interesting... you're getting Crysis 2 to run on the HD3470? I thought it wouldn't even go on the T500's HD3650!

Yeah... Except I'm running Crysis 2 at 800x600 at ~22 FPS (FPS is a lot more stable in Crysis 2) with a significant overclock. I have everything at High (the new term for Low

) and Effects/Shadows/Sound/Physics/Textures at Very High (the new term for Medium

). All AA/AF is off, and the horribly annoying motion blur is set to minimal (none causes blackouts in certain situations). I once bumped it to 1440x900 while standing on the FDR and it dropped to 8FPS. (Still better than when I tried Crysis 1 on an X61 with X3100

)

Crysis 1 I used to run at 960x600 but updating to the 11.4 drivers lost that resolution setting so I have to set it manually. Tweaked with the settings a lot and ended up breaking it (D'oh!). Got okay framerates there. IMO, both Crysis campaigns and engines are good in their own respects, but I preferred Crysis 1 by a smidge.

I've also gotten MW2 to run well at 1440x900 on the HD3470 (Any AA or AF kills it though) with all effects on (pre-overclocking).

The NVS3100M in the T410 and T510 are harder to overclock because the NVidia drivers lock into 2D power mode as soon as it detects some sort of graphical glitch, needing a restart or reapplying PowerMizer settings using PowerMizer Manager. Might have better luck forcing it to use 310M drivers. That said, you can lock the NVS3100M's voltage whereas with the ATI ones you can't.

@OP
Supposedly, from what I remember, the WSXGA+ CCFL panel was pretty good.

hunterman223 · #19 Post by **hunterman223** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:40 pm

That definitely sounds a lot better than most what I have been reading about the 3470. That makes me feel even more reassured about the 3650. Like I said, I don't do a ton of gaming but when I make a big purchase like a laptop, even if used/refurb, I want it to be future proof, VERY hard these days.

Colonel O'Neill · #20 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:17 pm

I may just be a lucky one whose HD3470 has plenty of overclocking room (680/800 to 850/900); another forumperson said his HD3470 couldn't sustain as high a clock.
(ref. http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=94162)
(same procedure should work for a T500's HD3650; still have to figure out how to lock voltages, though)

The graphics performance goes something like this:
HD3650 > Intel HD Graphics 3000 > NVS3100M >>> HD3470.

If you replace the thermal paste with a better one (lower temps; more stable under higher clocks) and overclock, you'll probably have more graphics headroom.

hunterman223 · #21 Post by **hunterman223** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:29 am

I suppose if I get one I'll see how it goes. How does overclocking affect battery life?

Colonel O'Neill · #22 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:07 am

Not sure. My T400 stays plugged in for the most part now. In theory, because the voltages remain the same, the battery life should remain the same...

You can switch back to the integrated graphics on battery life anyway. That half remains unchanged.

hunterman223 · #23 Post by **hunterman223** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:23 pm

I forgot about the switchable graphics. Overclocking would be alright for me then, since I would plug in before doing anything intensive anyways. How well does the switching work? I read that there were some problems. I will be using windows 7 x64.

Colonel O'Neill · #24 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:26 pm

It works just fine, as long as you don't muck around with the drivers.
One of the limitations that you couldn't switch while an external monitor is plugged in doesn't seem to actually apply; at least not with the built-in VGA. YMMV with a docking station.

We're dealing with a particularly nasty issue involving the Intel card and GPU-accelerated browsers/messenger clients/Skype, etc. There's a driverfix in progress, but not sure when that'll get here. In the meantime, you can disable GPU acceleration in some programs (such as IE9 and Firefox 4).

You can/should also update the ATI-side drivers to the 11.4 Mjolnir release for better performance. Not sure if doing this will have an impact when the new switchable driver package hits.

hunterman223 · #25 Post by **hunterman223** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:43 pm

Okay, I have pretty much exhausted my endless stream of questions.

Thanks everyone for all the great info.