How do people (really) like the T520?

[hman]

I’m a T42p owner, and am looking for an upgrade. The computer is 6 years old now, going strong, but I’d like more speed, long battery life, and up-to-date interfaces (e.g. the T42p has a parallel printer port, IDE drives, etc.).

The T410 Buyer Remorse thread http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=94560 has me spooked, as does this thread on a returned T420: http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo- ... -week.html .

I guess I was under the assumption that Thinkpads have improved in the past 6 years. I’m getting the impression that some machines are a large step back.

Then again, all of the reviews and forum entries I’ve read so far don’t have the “best” components offered. For example, many people complain badly about the displays. However, I’ve only seen a few people comment on the T520’s FHD display, and basically all of them are very positive.

In general – there’s not a lot written about the T520 yet – I guess it’s very new. But many (most?) of the components are handed up from the T510, right?

I really don’t want to drop decent coin for a T520 that has me running for the exits, trying to figure out how I can get my T42p to work for another 6 years! This is a business desktop replacement system, that is used a lot for travel, running around to meetings, and also use for programming, some MATLAB, etc. You have to enjoy the machine you use every day.

Here’s what I need/value most:

1) Great, matte display – high resolution (so 1920x1080 FHD is a must. Is it very good?)
(I do like the “old” 1600x1200 aspect ratio – but can’t get that anymore it seems)
2) Great keyboard – love the T42p keyboard – hate flat, mushy keyboards
3) Great battery life with good performance (with WIFI on) – T520 has the 9 cell slice battery. Being able to run > 10 hours with 6cell + 9cell slice sounds GREAT
4) Trackpoint is VERY important – and not some bad substitute that non-Thinkpads have
5) Solid build and feel (one person complained badly about the T410 feeling “hollow”)
6) Quiet fan / overall quiet operation is VERY important (loud fans embarrassing at meetings)
7) on-board camera is a plus

I thought the T520 would be best, coming from a T42p (which has the highest quality 1600x1200 display for its time). X series display is too small, and W series is too much battery draw (and I prefer 6 cell to 9 cell battery).

What are your thoughts?

Any help greatly appreciated. Would like to order in the next two days of possible.

------------------------------
Planned configuration:

System components
- Intel Core i5-2540M Processor (2.60GHz, 3MB L3)
- Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64
- Microsoft Windows 7 XP Mode - English
- 15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) LED Backlit Anti-Glare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
NVIDIA NVS 4200M Graphics with Optimus Technology, 1GB DDR3 Memory
- 4 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
- UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad plus Fingerprint reader
- 720p Camera
- 320 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
- DVD recordable multiburner
- Express Card Slot & 4 in 1 Card Reader
- 6 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55+
- Country Pack North America with Line cord & 90W AC adapter
- Bluetooth 3.0
- Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (3x3 AGN)
- Integrated Mobile Broadband – Upgradable

Accessories
- ThinkPad Battery 27++ (9 Cell Slice Battery )
- ThinkPad Mini Dock Plus Series 3

3rd party add-ons:
- extra 4 GB RAM
- (optional) 256 GB HDD (to use a sole storage drive)

[Q-Ball]

Yes, the T520 should fill this order.

They've fixed the mushy keyboard problem since the Tx10 series.
Coming from 1600 x 1200, it would probably be a good idea to go 1920 x 1080.
You can usually get around 7 hours (especially with the new Intel processors) from a new 9-cell battery (the one that sticks out the back). I'd expect maybe 12 if you go with 6 + 9 cell, WiFi on, screen at 2/3 brightness.
T520 is still the last-gen T510 chassis with new internals: it's more solid than the T410 is and about as solid as the T420 (both use carbon-fiber reinforced plastics now, T410 only used glass-reinforced for the screen assembly).

By the way- the W520 is way, way better on battery life than the W510 was. It's finally got Optimus, and because the processor is Sandy Bridge-based as well, it's got pretty good battery life as well. If it's cheaper with this configuration I'd just get that instead.

Also, I'd step that machine down to 2 GB and add an 8 GB kit later. It's cheaper to just save the 2 GB that comes with it since 8 GB is 80 bucks anyways.

Also, why not 9-cell + 9-cell? Just don't want it to stick out the back?

Remember- if it has any issues, just send it back and get another one that doesn't have the issues. If it's not put together right (creaky keyboard, broken latch that holds the fingerprint reader up, fan speed issues, CPU whine, etc.) get it exchanged (find out if they'll let you do this before you order it, but they should).

[hman]

Hi Q-Ball,

Thanks much for the reply. It seems that I have a new decision now - T520 vs. W520. I thought I had
that fully decided, because I think quad-core is way overkill (I have quad core desktop as home machine),
and because of the larger battery consumption and much larger W520 power brick (easier mobility is important
as well). Dual core T520 gets away with 90W power brick. But, USB 3.0 on the W520 is nice too.

Typically, I like getting the fastest and most capable device (and keep it forever), which seems to be
the W520. But as I understand, the really key difference in the W520 is the discrete graphics card, which
is very power hungry (I believe 55W vs 17 W for the T520).

Getting 12 hours battery life with the T520 sounds awesome, and very welcomed. 9 + 9 cell is possible,
but the flush 6 cell battery + slice is probably all I need and no bulge. It's easy enough to pick up a 9 cell
later is needed.

Perhaps others have opinions - on the original post, and T520 vs. W520, given the comments above?

[Q-Ball]

Just thinking about which one is cheaper, is all- you do know about coupon codes and stuff like that, no?

Also, the Quadro 1000M is only 45 watts instead of 55W for the 2000M but, on the other hand, you might also want to keep in mind the information here:
http://blogs.technet.com/b/keithcombs/a ... eally.aspx
And that's with discrete on, and the 55 watt'er to boot.

So I'd assume that the battery life for the T520 should be about the same at full load (55 W + 10 for CPU on W520 = 6.5 hours so I'd assume that 17W + 35 for CPU on the T520 should be about right). I could get about 6 hours on a single charge just taking notes on this machine with all power managing features enabled so I'd assume it would be at least a little bit larger for the T520.

Also, though that 170 watt brick is large, it's not all that heavy- it weighs less than the old 135 W adapter for the W510.

[hman]

Hi Q-ball,

Thanks for the reply. I'll try to configure the equivalent W520. At the moment, with all coupons
added, I have a quote for almost exactly $2k for the T520 configuration listed above.

[hman]

More reading makes me feel more confident about the T520 (or W520)

1) I haven't seen huge complaints about the keyboard
2) the few posts I've seen about the FHD diaplay are all positive and raving.This is in stark contrast to the lowest resolution screen, which many put down on all *520 devices, and mixed reviews on the HD+
3) mixed reviews on the trackpad (textured), but nothing bad said about the trackpoint - gotta believe that wasn't downgraded (hopefully not!)
4) Specifically speaking about the T520 and W520, many say the build quality is very good.

What do others think? I guess I'll have to see for myself.

[FragrantHead]

As a business user who also keeps his machine forever, I can empathise. I bought a T410s last year. Looked great on paper, but the screen was a major let-down, so much so that I'm still using my by now 8-year old T30. I have an X220 with IPS screen on order.

Keyboards are getting ever shallower. There is a small difference coming from the T30, though I find the feeling of the keys very good, a light touch but firm landing, not mushy and better in that regard than my T30 keyboard.

As you probably know, the Esc and Del keys have doubled in height. This means the row of function keys is slightly shifted to the right, with smaller gaps between each 4 function keys. They also narrowed the gaps of all keys to reduce dust and crumbs building up underneath. For me, while I appreciate the thought that went into the redesign, I can take it or leave it. The narrowing of gaps and shifting of keys makes it marginally harder to feel your way around the keyboard, though that is probably just a matter of getting used to it.

I believe the redesigned keyboard is being fitted to all new Thinkpads now. As ever Lenovo probably has multiple suppliers. While I really like the one of my T410s, I also have the external USB travel keyboard and the feel is quite different. It has a more obvious pressure point at the beginning of key travel that I, for one, do not like.

The trackpoint hasn't changed in many years, I think. Whatever has been good and bad about it - it simply hasn't changed. The middle trackpoint key is a slight step backwards though, as it is marginally shorter. I have to retract my thumb a slight bit, otherwise my fingernail hits the plastic beyond the key. This is more noticeable on the T410s where the middle mouse button must be pressed just a little deeper than on the USB travel keyboard. Manufacturing tolerances.

I got the touchscreen on the T410s, which came free at the time. I do not recommend one, unless needed. It adds 300g to the weight and makes the machine more top heavy and liable to tumble off your lap, if you lean forward to reach for something. Although matte, it is also shinier than my matte T30 screen and from the way I remember business screens in general. I would say about a 3rd of the way towards fully shiny. I don't know whether this is due to the touch-screen coating. From youtube videos I have the impression many Lenovo screens are like this in general now, possibly to compensate for the poor contrast ratios and color reproduction of the standard screens.

[simplify]

Does no one have concerns about fan noise or CPU whine?

I've read that the CPU whine issue has been going on for *three years*, and at the lenovo.com forums the thread on the whine has 343 posts in the past year alone - and that doesn't even include posts on t4xx models, only the t510!

I bring this up because I'm on the brink of getting a t520 myself. Will post a more general noise question in a new thread.

[Colonel O'Neill]

Intel CPU whine has been around for more than that. And it's not specific to Lenovo laptops or 15" ThinkPads.

[ThinkRob]

I've read that the CPU whine issue has been going on for *three years*, and at the lenovo.com forums the thread on the whine has 343 posts in the past year alone - and that doesn't even include posts on t4xx models, only the t510!

It's "been going on" *at least* since the Pentium M.

And it's not really like it's some long-standing issue that Lenovo's failed to address -- it's an electromechanical characteristic of a large number of mobile Intel CPUs. It has nothing to do with the laptop itself, but rather the processor. That's just the way it is.

Don't worry. When you get older your upper range of hearing will taper off a bit and you'll no longer hear it.

[ThinkRob]

Oh, and to the OP: don't read too much into those threads. For every single ThinkPad ever made, there's *always* someone who's convinced that it's "OMG THE WORST EVER", "more Chinese garbage", "the end of the line", etc.

I have a T410 and a T420 (plus a number of other ThinkPads, going back all the way to a 750cs from the early 90s.) The T420 is every bit as worthy of the brand name as its predecessors.

[simplify]

For every single ThinkPad ever made, there's *always* someone who's convinced that it's "OMG THE WORST EVER", "more Chinese garbage", "the end of the line", etc.

I picked up on this "only unhappy customers post" phenomenon early in my weeks of searching for a reliable, sturdy, fast, quiet laptop. ("Mostly" would be more accurate than "only".) It's entirely understandable and I sympathize, but still it's driving me completely bonkers.

Not limited to computers, of course. Though at least with vacuum cleaners, I can tell you, things are more black and white. People are consistently outraged at most major brands and consistently delighted with a few super-expensive lines. But that's OT...

[ThinkRob]

Not limited to computers, of course. Though at least with vacuum cleaners, I can tell you, things are more black and white. People are consistently outraged at most major brands and consistently delighted with a few super-expensive lines. But that's OT...

I've been finding the same is definitely true with furniture. I'm furnishing a couple rooms at the moment, and pretty much any piece of home office furniture has reviews with people praising the sturdiness of the piece and reviews with people complaining about how quickly it falls apart, etc. Same piece, completely different opinions.

Of course you don't sit on a ThinkPad, nor do you assemble it yourself, so I guess it's a little different...

[dbonds]

I just received my T520 w/ 2720QM, FHD, NVS 4200M, 8GB RAM (4 from Lenovo, 4 aftermarket), 120GB Intel 320 SSD (aftermarket) w/ 500GB Seagate (Lenovo) in Ebay ultrabay caddy (apparently the factory ones leave a bit of gap).

Regarding the FHD display, I love it. Just so you know where I came from, I had a T42 w/ SXGA and T61 w/WSXGA before this model but haven't ever used an IPS display. Having said that, the FHD display has easily been my best display yet. I've actually turned the brightness down to about 50% because it was so darn bright at 100% (a "problem" I never had with the T42 or T61 displays). Going from 4:3 to 16:10 to 16:9, the display does still feel a little squished vertically, but I'm sure that's been well hashed out here and I'm sure it's something I'll get used to.

Regarding the keyboard, that's pretty subjective but I'm quite happy with the T520 keyboard. I'm much more of a "quiet", possibly even mushy keyboard person though and was never into the clacky style keyboards. In any case, it seems to be pretty comparable to my previous Thinkpad keyboards and I'm happy with it.

Regarding the build quality, again I don't have any complaints. My current reference for comparison is a 3.5+ year old T61 and it's definitely more solid than that, but that's no surprise. I guess the point is that I haven't run across anything here to complain about. Same with quiet operation - I haven't noticed any fan noise.

I opted for the 2720QM processor and discrete graphics partially because there was a deal at the time that I purchased, but also because I'm plugged in most of the time and thought the tradeoff to be worth it for the extra performance. This also meant I got the 135W power supply (which I wasn't thrilled about), but as someone here in the forums pointed out, I got a 90W brick with my docking station and carry that one around with me leaving the 135W for the dock. It sounds like battery is a little more critical to you, so the dual core and possibly integrated graphics might be a better choice for you. FWIW, I also considered the W520 but the pricing/spec didn't work out as nicely at the time and I really didn't want to touch that 170W brick. The main appeal of the W520 for me were the 4x SODIMM slots (16GB for relatively little money) and USB 3 (don't really have a need for right now, but assume this will be more important over the next couple years). As noted above, I also bought my first SSD with this upgrade and have been very pleased with the performance. They're still pretty pricey, but it does make the whole system a LOT more responsive.

I've just barely got myself transferred over to the new T520, but do not regret the purchase at all. The only things that are close to pangs of regret would be that I don't have the 4x memory slots and USB 3 that would have been on the W520. Regardless, I think that's the right compromise for the degree or portability that I wanted. Feel free to ask if you have any specific questions about anything and good luck with your decision.

Daniel

[blackomegax]

You can evade the regret of USB3 by taking advantage of the eSATAp port, and 2nd gen expresscard slot.