T520 or W520?

[hman]

I searched for a tread like this in both T5x0 and W5x0 forums, but could find it.

So, I was this close ( => <= ) to pulling the trigger on the T520, and then Lenovo offers two other
choices - i7 dual core processors on the T520 and W520. To boot, the W520 comes up LESS expensive!
So, why not just get the W520?

Advantages to me are the USB 3 ports and extra DIMM slots. I don't think I need the killer graphics, with
the associated high power draw when off the dock, but this review indicates it might not be such an issue http://blogs.technet.com/b/keithcombs/a ... eally.aspx
Size and weight of the T520 and W520 units themselves are the same.

Perhaps the discrete card can simply be turned off completed when off the dock? Does this make the power draw of the
W520 equal to the T520 ???

So what keeps me from just buying the W520? The [censored] (huge) power brick!!!! (see the URL above for pictures). I can't see hauling
this monster around in a carry bag! I really want the 90W power brick as an option for the W520!

Does anyone have suggestions / solutions? Do I simply stick to the T520?

Use is "heavy" mobile business use (mobility, reliability, quiet operation, good battery life is key - and so is the 1920x1080 FHD screen) and some lighter MATLAB and similar calculations. On the dock, I don't care about battery draw, as long as I can throttle it down to T520 levels of power use for use on the battery.

Here are T520 and W520 configurations to compare - might help. Price is about the same (W520 config. below is $130 LESS expensive than the T520):


T520:

System components
Intel Core i7-2620M Processor (2.70GHz, 4MB L3)
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64
Microsoft Windows 7 XP Mode - English
15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) LED Backlit Anti-Glare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
NVIDIA NVS 4200M Graphics with Optimus Technology, 1GB DDR3 Memory
4 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (1 DIMM)
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad plus Fingerprint reader
720p Camera
500 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD recordable multiburner
Express Card Slot & 4 in 1 Card Reader
9 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55++
Country Pack North America with Line cord & 90W AC adapter
Bluetooth 3.0
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (3x3 AGN)
Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable
Accessories
ThinkPad Battery 27++ (9 Cell Slice Battery - T410/420, T510/520, W510/520)
ThinkPad Mini Dock Plus Series 3 (US/Canada/LA)


W520:

System components
Intel Core i7-2620M Processor (2.70GHz, 4MB L3)
Genuine Windows 7 Professional 64
Microsoft Windows 7 XP Mode - English
15.6" FHD (1920 x 1080) LED Backlit Anti-Glare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
NVIDIA Quadro 1000M Graphics with 2GB DDR3 Memory
8 GB PC3-10600 DDR3 SDRAM 1333MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)
UltraNav with TrackPoint & touchpad plus Fingerprint reader
720p Camera
Internal RAID - Not Enabled
500 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
DVD recordable multiburner
Express Card Slot & 4 in 1 Card Reader
9 cell Li-Ion Battery - 55++
Country Pack North America with Line cord & 170W AC adapter
Bluetooth 3.0
Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 (3x3 AGN)
Integrated Mobile Broadband - Upgradable
Fingerprint Reader
Accessories
ThinkPad Battery 27++ (9 Cell Slice Battery - T410/420, T510/520, W510/520)
ThinkPad Mini Dock Plus Series 3 (170W) (US/Canada/LA)

Replies appreciated!

[Q-Ball]

"So what keeps me from just buying the W520? The (huge) power brick!!!! (see the URL above for pictures). I can't see hauling this monster around in a carry bag! I really want the 90W power brick as an option for the W520!"

So you did read the text as well and not the pictures, right?
That power brick might be large but it's actually somewhere (in weight) between the 90W and 135W.

Also, the 90 watt power supply simply isn't enough for the W520- you can't run, at full load, 35W (CPU) + 45W (GPU) + ballpark 15W for everything else and expect to have power left over to charge the computer with. You could try finding a 135W adapter and see how that works out for you but I think you'll need the 170W to go at full speed.

Turning off the discrete graphics card on the T/W520 is as simple as closing every window and switching to Windows 7 Basic (no Aero) so that the graphics card automatically detects that there's no program that requires 3D needing its power. It's not very accurate.
You can also turn the card off in the BIOS when you're not going to be using the 1000M.
But it's not like you need to do this anyways since you already get 6 hours on a 9-cell battery at light loads.


I've got an idea for you- buy the W520, with the i7-2720QM (it's all of 40 bucks more than the 2620M model and gives you the quad-core board which has 4 slots for RAM instead of the dual-core one that only has 2 RAM slots), with the Quadro 1000M, with 4 GB of RAM (either one or two sticks- if you ever see yourself going to 16 GB of RAM, I'd take the 1 stick from Lenovo, and install another equivalent 4 GB stick yourself for much cheaper.

I'm assuming that you're NOT going to need to bring that 170W brick everywhere you go because you're also buying the battery slice, so you should expect 12 hours of battery life anyways (even more that reported since the 1000M uses 10 watts less than the 2000M does). Since I'm assuming that you sleep for about 8 hours a day, battery life should be all you ever need.

[Brad]

The W520 uses a keyed power connector that if you wanted to you couldn't use on any other ThinkPad. The other 20V adapters will fit. If you use them Power Manager complains that the incorrect adapter is connected and that you don't have enough power for your ThinkPad. I haven't used the other adapters for any length of time to offer any other usage comments.

My experience using the integrated GPU makes the W520 sip wattage. With the power manage watt meter I have seen usage go to 3 watts for a moment. Very rarely over 20 watts and usually in the 10-18 watt area. Add to the requirement of up to 20 watts with the discrete 2000M GPU. This is with the 2920XM CPU and one SSD.

Brad

[MikeM]

The W520 is the better deal here.

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

The W520 is the better deal here.

Against the advantages of longer battery life for the T520, and a reputation for the T-series very rugged? I've used a T42 and presently (and about to be replaced) T61 and been very impressed with their reliability. The, what, 6 year old T42 still works great and the battery life is about 1 hour, 25 minutes. Not bad after all these years. My brother had an R-series unit before his T-series and it was nowhere near as rugged, with connectors getting loose and various other little issues that required replacement after less than two years (we unfortunately didn't buy the extended warranty).

If the T-series actually is more rugged, that could be a point in its favor. Lower heat dissipation could also improve reliability. But I have no familiarity with the W-series machines so I don't know if these are valid considerations or not.

Thanks for any enlightenment, as I'm presently debating the same thing (W520, which is a fair amount less expensive, vs T520). --Mike--

[hman]

Thanks for the replies. Mike, I'm still running a T42p, and would just buy new batteries if I only wanted longer battery life. The slice battery on the T520 and W520 take it beyond the T42p. Oh, but how I like the older 1600x1200 screens...

Brad - what kind of battery life are you getting from the 9-cell battery at this low wattage? This with a quad core CPU as well? RSVP, and thanks.

[Q-Ball]

In regards to battery life, all I can say is to read the text in the link you posted in your first post.

And the W520 does get a bit warm on the bottom, but it's no MacBook Pro.
They built the cooling system properly (and if it isn't built properly send 'er back and get a new one)

And a bit OT but whatever: are you familiar with this mod?
Should be possible to install since you implied that you have a 15" model.

[Brad]

Brad - what kind of battery life are you getting from the 9-cell battery at this low wattage? This with a quad core CPU as well? RSVP, and thanks.

Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to use the W520 without A/C for any length of time. This is the 2920XM and the 2000M GPU but using only the Intel GPU.

Brad

[Q-Ball]

By the way- the W520 can basically be considered a T520p.
Same chassis, screen, weight, basic outlay, but more powerful guts (to be specific, a better GPU).

Actually, it uses the same chassis as the T510 line (T510, W510)- durability is quite good and is better than the T410 in that regard due to choice of lid plastics.
Same ports (exception is USB 3.0 on the W series replacing USB 2.0 on the T series), same locations.

[hman]

Thanks Q-Ball, Brad, etc.

I'm leaning toward the T520 now. I'm thinking that I can use eSATA for an external
drive for speed (which is what I would basically want the USB 3.0 for), and being honest
about my needs - I just don't think I need the raw CPU power - as most CPU intensive calcs
I do are done on remote servers, and there won;t be any gaming on this machine - although
benchmarks I've seen aren't bad. In the end, battery life, portability, temperature, quietness
are really more important, and it seems that in the dock, this laptop will have no problem
driving two 1920x1200 displays, and will have good CPU for heavy "office level" and programming
applications (and light MATLAB). It's just tough for me not to buy the most capable CPU/GPU
out there, but the T520 with Core i7-2620M CPU is probably very fast for this application.
Funny how the W520 is actually a bit less expensive - but that power brick is the straw...
The 90W is so much more transport-friendly, and the ultraslim 90W is looking very good
as an option for even lighter travel.

Also - Q-ball the mod for the T42p display is cool - but I like the present display so much, I
wouldn't want to touch it. I was originally worried about the T520 FHD display, but people
seem to be raving about it. Perhaps it's better than the T42p 1600x1200. And, even though
the aspect ratio is very different, the FHD screen does have more pixels than the 1600x1200.

Thx

Hman

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

I fought over this one in my mind backward & forward... I really didn't like the idea of a 175-watt power supply (doesn't seem very green, nor friendly to the laptop power available on planes) and there is an implied increased durability in the T-series models. But in the end, the availability of a W520 with all the features I wanted, and then some, for $400 less than a slightly-less-well-equipped T520, along with the realization that the unit's internal battery alone would be enough on a transcon flight, tipped the scales to the W520.

So I ordered it today, a pre-build unit from PCConnection. $1599 with 1920x1080 screen, 8 gigs ram, 2720 CPU (that really seemed to be the sweet spot), 500 gig drive etc. Oh, and that included the factory 3-year warranty too. Seems like a very good deal. Had I found something to support the idea that the T520 actually was a lot tougher, or smaller, I'd have gone that way instead. --Mike--

[hman]

Hi Mike - I know what you mean. I went through the same logic, and the W520 and T520 were so close. Really, I shouldn't have thought about it so much! I went for the T520, but it's really no matter - both machines will be great. Best of luck with yours. I haven't read anything to suggest that the W520 is less durable - I think they have the same durability, as they are structurally the same.

[blackomegax]

The W series are MORE rugged than T series.
read lenovo docs on the milspec testing of the W520.

Add that: W has cheap quad core and vastly better GPU options (with optimus, so battery life will be that of the Intel HD 3000 in most instances), 4 ram slots, the fact that as someone said, the 170w is lighter than the 130w power brick...

[Colonel O'Neill]

Huh? The W520 and T520 are identical chassis. How could it be more rugged?

[blackomegax]

excerpt from the pdf "Milspec tested for ruggedness, power is complemented by the W520's innovative features"

[Colonel O'Neill]

Marketing material is still marketing material.
Facts are still facts.

[blackomegax]

I don't think they'd lie about a claim that serious.
Could just mean the T520 is tested as such too.

/edit, indeed they are. nvm\

[Mike Jacoubowsky]

Received my W520 Friday and have been configuring it to my working environment ever since. Very nice screen, very nice computer. But that brick? Oh my. When you're initially used to a svelte T42 and reluctantly upgraded to a T61P... and now this? The computer itself is fine, but somebody's got to come out with an aftermarket powersupply that can pack the required punch into a much smaller and lighter package.

I hope! --Mike--

[Colonel O'Neill]

Heh. Any smaller and the heat of 170W might melt the adapter.

[blackomegax]

Targus makes an uber-slim 90W i picked up for a T420. they might do higher currents.
Its not a matter of wattage melting it, just effeciency.
Could be worse, though. Xbox 360 power brickian.

[hunterman223]

Could be worse, though. Xbox 360 power brickian.

You could put wheels and an engine on that thing and commute to and from work on it!



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