Chinese Palmrests... Genuine or not?

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hunterman223 · #1 Post by **hunterman223** » Fri May 27, 2011 7:04 pm

I see a lot of these on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lenovo-T400-PalmR ... 2768wt_989

They seem to be missing the touchpad and the fingeprint reader electronics, but I could swap over. Has anyone ever bought one of these? I'm concerned about build quality, as I don't think a genuine Lenovo would be missing the electronics, or be so cheap.

In the meantime I have posted a WTB over in the marketplace, if anyone has a palmrest available.

#2 Post by **Harryc** » Sat May 28, 2011 5:35 am

I don't recall having bought any Chinese manufactured plastics for Thinkpads, but I may have. I usually try to go for genuine FRU's, particularly when dealing with plastic base replacement. The base is such an integral part of the laptop, and it is so time consuming to replace, that I just want to make sure it is genuine quality and that I don't have to repeat the replacement in the future. I might try a palm rest...it's easy to replace and it's not very expensive (usually).

hunterman223 · #3 Post by **hunterman223** » Sat May 28, 2011 5:47 am

I thought it must have been to good to be true. The original Lenovo palmrest for the T400 are going for around £35 ($55) used here, so it's not terribly expensive but the Chinese made ones are going for less than $20.

Hopefully someone has a spare that they are willing to part with, otherwise i'll just go for the Lenovo one on eBay.

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ThinkRob · #4 Post by **ThinkRob** » Sun May 29, 2011 11:50 pm

hunterman223 wrote:I see a lot of these on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lenovo-T400-PalmR ... 2768wt_989

They seem to be missing the touchpad and the fingeprint reader electronics, but I could swap over. Has anyone ever bought one of these? I'm concerned about build quality, as I don't think a genuine Lenovo would be missing the electronics, or be so cheap.

Several things:

1) I haven't purchased from that particular seller, but I have purchased other palmrests and case plastics from various CN and HK-based sellers with no problems.

2) A tremendous number of FRUs are "Chinese manufactured plastics" since that's where a vast portion of that sort of manufacturing takes place. Yes, even the "original" ones.

3) A plastic part's a plastic part. I really doubt that there is any measurable difference between a "genuine" one that you buy from Lenovo for $30+ or one such as the one you linked. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the latter *was* identical, perhaps even being surplus from a production run (official or otherwise.)

4) The electronics assemblies are interchangeable and can indeed be swapped over.

hunterman223 · #5 Post by **hunterman223** » Mon May 30, 2011 6:23 am

Thanks. You said you have used these before; do you notice any difference in colour, and does everything "fit" like it is intended? Since a palmrest is something you see a lot of I don't want it to be a different shade of black or creak or something like that.

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ThinkRob · #6 Post by **ThinkRob** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:07 pm

hunterman223 wrote:Thanks. You said you have used these before; do you notice any difference in colour, and does everything "fit" like it is intended? Since a palmrest is something you see a lot of I don't want it to be a different shade of black or creak or something like that.

The ones I've ordered (both for X series and some T series machines) basically *were* identical, as far as I can tell. Same markings, same tone, etc.

Also keep in mind: there are variations in plastic hue/tone even with "genuine" parts, as there are often multiple suppliers (and multiple FRUs) for a given part.

#7 Post by **erik** » Mon May 30, 2011 4:28 pm

ThinkRob wrote:3) A plastic part's a plastic part. I really doubt that there is any measurable difference between a "genuine" one that you buy from Lenovo for $30+ or one such as the one you linked. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the latter *was* identical, perhaps even being surplus from a production run (official or otherwise.)

having purchased supposedly "genuine" case parts for previous blackberry devices, i vehemently disagree with saying "a plastic part's a plastic part." considering that the original molds for these parts can cost upwards of $10K USD, i don't see aftermarket companies spending much on injection molding dies for $20 parts. at that price they're either originals at "fell off the truck prices" or very poorly-made copies.

if it's not 100% original, there's absolutely no guarantee it will fit correctly. one may end up buying the part twice as a result.

hunterman223 · #8 Post by **hunterman223** » Mon May 30, 2011 6:07 pm

Both very good points. One more question about the CN-made ones, ThinkRob. I see from the listing photos that the surface of the touchpad, e.g. the part with the scroll arrows, is present, but no electronics underneath. Why is that? It doesn't make sense that part of the touchpad is there, and part missing.

Thanks to both of you for replying.

Tony Chan · #9 Post by **Tony Chan** » Mon May 30, 2011 6:42 pm

My understanding is that most of those from China/HK are coming from "fell off the truck prices" - coming from the same factory and assembly line. Who know how they get them !!

I've also saw few "refurbished" ( i.e. used but re-painted etc ). I've saw LCD coover, palmrest. Yes even keyboard can be repaint to made it look better, but I can spot right away that it's not new. Make sure you check their feedback before make any purchase from eBay.

I've yet to see any "cheap clone". I guess it's way easier to find a buddy who works in one of those factory and have him get you a few boxes. No need to setup injection molding machine to made pennies parts.

ThinkRob · #10 Post by **ThinkRob** » Mon May 30, 2011 7:52 pm

Tony Chan wrote: I've yet to see any "cheap clone". I guess it's way easier to find a buddy who works in one of those factory and have him get you a few boxes. No need to setup injection molding machine to made pennies parts.

I suspect that this is what is happening for a number of the various ThinkPad parts for sale on eBay, Alibaba, some of the B2B sites, etc. I've never seen something that was obviously a fake -- but I have come across a number of parts with all the normal QC/ID numbers which never had the customer-facing stickers added... One of my most recent purchases was an HD UltraBay caddy that was part-for-part identical to an "official" one, with the exception of the warning stickers flanking the hard drive slot. Perhaps it was liberated from the prisons of Foxconn, perhaps not -- but either way it was identical yet cost a fraction of Lenovo's price.

As far as why it would have the surface of the touchpad but no touchpad electronics... well that's something I haven't seen. No idea. The ones that I've seen (that I assumed you were referring to) simply lacked the entire touchpad assembly: the touch surface, the buttons, etc. On a T60 that entire chunk is removable, so it's common to find the palmrests with no pads since you're probably going to swap in one from an existing machine anyways.

hunterman223 · #11 Post by **hunterman223** » Mon May 30, 2011 8:01 pm

ThinkRob wrote:As far as why it would have the surface of the touchpad but no touchpad electronics... well that's something I haven't seen. No idea. The ones that I've seen (that I assumed you were referring to) simply lacked the entire touchpad assembly: the touch surface, the buttons, etc. On a T60 that entire chunk is removable, so it's common to find the palmrests with no pads since you're probably going to swap in one from an existing machine anyways.

Yeah, it is strange. If you check out the link from my original post you will see that the surface is there and the buttons are not. Do you think the surface is removable for the T400 as well? I could always have a look at it tomorrow. I don't really know how you could even have one and not the other, unless the surface can somehow be separated from the electronics.

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ThinkRob · #12 Post by **ThinkRob** » Mon May 30, 2011 8:43 pm

Yeah, I missed that on my first read-through :/

I haven't replaced a T400 palmrest with a third party part yet, so I don't know if the surface is removable -- but if it's anything like the T6x series it is. You should be able to tell if you pop the palmrest off your existing machine and take a look for screws on either side of the palmrest. If you unscrew them should be able to remove the entire assembly. I think.

#13 Post by **lead_org** » Tue May 31, 2011 4:17 am

There are quite a few manufacturers in China that is manufacturing old superseded parts for Thinkpads, some are quite inventive with their designs and patterns.

IBM parts are also sourcing from some non-traditional manufacturers in China for the end of life machines. Some manufacturers probably bought the old moulds from OEM, and they become second source supplier for old parts.

Some really bad cottage industry creates a mold from the actual plastic part, then they use this new mould to create new plastic part, this usually results in uneven finishes, etc.

hunterman223 · #14 Post by **hunterman223** » Tue May 31, 2011 5:41 am

Hopefully someone can help me out here. I currently have the palmrest disassembled down to just the touchpad PCB and surface, but there are no more screws or seemingly anything else to hold it in place, but I can't figure out how to remove it. I would like to get that CN-based one reading everyone's replies, but I want to make sure it will go as planned before I buy.

ThinkRob · #15 Post by **ThinkRob** » Tue May 31, 2011 8:49 am

lead_org wrote: IBM parts are also sourcing from some non-traditional manufacturers in China for the end of life machines. Some manufacturers probably bought the old moulds from OEM, and they become second source supplier for old parts.

Uh... even many of the first-run parts come from China.

Hopefully someone can help me out here. I currently have the palmrest disassembled down to just the touchpad PCB and surface, but there are no more screws or seemingly anything else to hold it in place, but I can't figure out how to remove it. I would like to get that CN-based one reading everyone's replies, but I want to make sure it will go as planned before I buy.

As I said, I haven't ever stripped down a T400 palmrest assembly, so it's possible that it changed from the T6x series. In the T6x series once you removed the screws from the silver mounting brackets you could lift out the pad assembly pretty easily. That may not be the case on the T400 -- if not... well... I'm out of ideas.

hunterman223 · #16 Post by **hunterman223** » Tue May 31, 2011 9:55 am

ThinkRob wrote: As I said, I haven't ever stripped down a T400 palmrest assembly, so it's possible that it changed from the T6x series. In the T6x series once you removed the screws from the silver mounting brackets you could lift out the pad assembly pretty easily. That may not be the case on the T400 -- if not... well... I'm out of ideas.

Me too, so I sent in an offer for this palmrest:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 1618wt_989

It looks to be in pretty good condition, and it will be a nice drop-in solution hopefully. I am also going to pick up a Windows 7 decal to replace that Vista one. It should turn out pretty nice. Thanks again for the help.

#17 Post by **erik** » Tue May 31, 2011 3:54 pm

the touchpads on new systems (save for the X220) are adhered to the palmrest using 0.010" thick 3M VHB tape. it's an absolute bear to remove these touchpads since the tape is strong, pads are delicate, and touchpad plastics quite thin.

if the seller is offering just the palmrest without the touchpad, that alone would equate for the price difference. it would be missing $30 in electronic parts alone and potentially any EMI/RFI shielding typically stuck to the backs of palmrests.

the "original" might be more expensive but would save a lot of headache. that to me would be worth $30 without question.

hunterman223 · #18 Post by **hunterman223** » Tue May 31, 2011 4:11 pm

That explains it. I seems like it would come off, but not without a fight. And like you said it felt delicate. I guess I made s good choice with the one above than.

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Bánh mì · #19 Post by **Bánh mì** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:09 am

You are better off getting genunine Lenovo parts. Otherwise, its like driving a MBZ (fabrique aux Germany) and going into AutoZone and looking for parts.

ThinkRob · #20 Post by **ThinkRob** » Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:25 pm

Bánh mì wrote:You are better off getting genunine Lenovo parts. Otherwise, its like driving a MBZ (fabrique aux Germany) and going into AutoZone and looking for parts.

As someone who does drive an older Mercedes and who does go to local, non-dealer parts stores and mechanics, I think that's a pretty good analogy.

Yes, you *could* buy everything from the dealer. That's an incredibly expensive way to do maintenance though, especially since the only difference between a great number of the "genuine" parts and the "generic ones" is the label. So too it is with laptops.

Here's what I'd recommend with regards to where to get your parts:

Batteries - Lenovo-branded unless you have a good source otherwise.

AC adapters - your call. Considering you can get Lenovo-branded ones for so little via the outlet, etc. third party ones don't make much sense.

Memory - skip the Lenovo-branded stuff. Memory is memory. It works or it doesn't. The Lenovo logo offers nothing other than a higher price-tag.

Planars - you don't have a choice. There are no generic ones.

Screens - depends on the model. Some models require specific Lenovo-only screens. Many don't. If you have one that doesn't, don't bother with Lenovo-branded screens -- get the unbranded (but identical) panels.

Plastics - generic unless you have reason to be suspicious. I've only ever seen one third-party plastic part that was *possibly* not identical (a T60 latch slider), and even then it worked perfectly, it just had slightly different seams.

Software - OEM stuff only (unless you like having your machine compromised from day one.)

Accessories - varies, but usually I'd say generic.

Really though, just use some common sense. If a part is dirt cheap, but from a reputable vendor... well... it's probably one of the many "fell off the back of a truck" "generic" parts. If it's dirt cheap, generic, and from some dude with a 85% feedback rating, I'd pass.

Bánh mì · #21 Post by **Bánh mì** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:34 am

I'm not advocating that the OP buy everything from a dealer. But certain mission critical parts should come from Lenovo.

#22 Post by **Harryc** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:49 am

Bánh mì wrote:...certain mission critical parts should come from Lenovo.

My point also ...

Bánh mì · #23 Post by **Bánh mì** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:20 pm

About the only non-Lenovo parts I would use are memory, mouse, keyboard skin and AC adaptor. Also a HDD caddy. As far as memory only Crucial or better. AC adaptor would be a spare only not the main source of juice. For HDD caddys you have to find the right vendor on eBay. As far as mice only Logitech not MSFT.

Colonel O'Neill · #24 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:30 am

Bánh mì wrote:As far as mice only Logitech not MSFT.

I was gifted an MS BT 5000 mouse, and it works acceptably. The acceleration curve on it is a bit funny though.

hunterman223 · #25 Post by **hunterman223** » Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:25 am

Thanks everyone. Yesterday I got my palmrest, and it looks brand new. A real improvement from the old one in appearance. (there's pics over in the "Pictures of Your ThinkPad" section)

The FRUs stamped on the back of it are all one number higher than my old one. Strange. My only gripe was the touchpad buttons. They were the squeakiest, squelchiest most God-awful things I have seen on a ThinkPad. Luckily they are replaceable so I switched them out for the buttons on my old palmrest. We're both "A" okay now.

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nichevo · #26 Post by **nichevo** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:10 pm

Bánh mì wrote:About the only non-Lenovo parts I would use are memory, mouse, keyboard skin and AC adaptor. Also a HDD caddy. As far as memory only Crucial or better. AC adaptor would be a spare only not the main source of juice. For HDD caddys you have to find the right vendor on eBay. As far as mice only Logitech not MSFT.

Who do you like as an ebay caddy vendor? I bought an Ultrabay Slim PATA caddy and a 15" T4x caddy+cover from ny-compu-tek and ny-comptech (they both ship, free, from the same address in Flushing) and the plastic lever locking in the drive is thin and flimsy. Other than that it seems fine, and it works, but I wonder how this will stand up to much use - for instance the plastic lever hardly engages with the drive when shut, it's not tight and as I said it flexes, so under long use it seems it might allow shifting. The metal, the interface, external bezel, all seems right.

I also bought a 15" T4x HDD caddy/cover; the plastic seems fine but the metal caddy that bolts onto the drive is think metal, thin enough to get bent in shipping from NYC to Westchester and also to bend right back. I think it is actually good enough to use since it's not really load-bearing, but chintzy, cheap, would prefer better.

Meanwhile have considered some replacement plastics for minor things...if it is going to be cheesy, maybe i'm better off cleaning, buffing, repainting the originals. How does one retouch the case finish, is it possible? How can one get out scratches and scuffs? And does anyone have advice on buffing small scratches out of the screen?

rsutoratosu · #27 Post by **rsutoratosu** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:22 pm

Isn't Lenovo a Chinese own company now ? you figure they'll manufacture their own fallen off the truck stuff also

Anyway, I only buy drive doors and misc small part off the HK/China ebay seller.. and yeah they dont have good fit.. you can tell that some door is slightly off, color slightly off but its for personal use.. I dont care much..

Colonel O'Neill · #28 Post by **Colonel O'Neill** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 7:09 am

I don't think it's possible (or at least, reasonably easy) to retexture the plastics. The lid paint is difficult to apply, from what I've heard. There's also no similar replacement paint.

I suppose you could use some of the new fancy scratch repair stuff for glasses on the screen.

#29 Post by **lead_org** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:58 am

rsutoratosu wrote:Isn't Lenovo a Chinese own company now ? you figure they'll manufacture their own fallen off the truck stuff also

Anyway, I only buy drive doors and misc small part off the HK/China ebay seller.. and yeah they dont have good fit.. you can tell that some door is slightly off, color slightly off but its for personal use.. I dont care much..

Hum... , Lenovo don't manufacture their own parts, they are all done by companies like Flexitronics, Foxconn, etc. When these machines get older, some of the parts are second sourced from smaller manufacturers using the superseded moulds.

Also, if you want quality stuffs, you can always get it from IBM parts or get a parts stripped off broken machines. If you want to penny pinch on parts from these regular resellers, then don't expect too much.

chairsky · #30 Post by **chairsky** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 1:34 am

most of these palmrests are either refurbished (third-party refurb) or third-party manufactured