Thinkpads Forum

So I got my T420s recently. It's a regular i5 with Intel 3000. It's a nice machine although I now see what people were complaining about when it came to screen. That plastic filler at the bottom looks awful.

Anyway, I upgraded mine with 8GB of RAM and an Intel 160GB G2 SSD I had laying around. So I'm trying to reinstall W7 Ultimate x64 and I switched the disk to GPT and BIOS to EFI only. After partitioning the disk (2 partitions - 40GB for system and about 120GB for everything else) I installed the Windows successfully.

This is where the issues roll in. I downloaded a bunch of drivers from T420s from Lenovo website and it seems that the Intel videocard driver causes a blue screen after a reboot to the point where I can't boot into Windows. Fingerprint software also caused a blue screen but it disappeared after another reboot. So any thoughts on what I might have missed and how to make it work?

On top of that there are a few devices I can't find drivers for. One is the infamous SM Bus as well as another Simple Comm Device and a Base System device. None of these seem to update by going through the Windows update. Any ideas?

synchromesh wrote:Anyway, I upgraded mine with 8GB of RAM

Since you just upgraded ram, have you tried the original ram or tested with like a linux memtest boot cd?

Blue screens + new memory... I would tend to look there 1st.

I ran some loops memtest, seemed ok. I can run some extra ones but memory worked ok in another computer so I doubt it's the culprit.

synchromesh wrote:...it seems that the Intel videocard driver causes a blue screen after a reboot to the point where I can't boot into Windows.

I've read you need to have Win7 SP1 installed before installing the Intel video driver under UEFI or you'll run into exactly the problem you described.

pao wrote:I've read you need to have Win7 SP1 installed before installing the Intel video driver under UEFI or you'll run into exactly the problem you described.

Yes, I heard that too. Problem is I can't get to SP1 installation because once I install the first set of Win7 updates (76 or so) I get another bluescreen on startup. IRQL_NOT_LESS_THAN_OR_EQUAL one.

I swapped the RAM to original, updated SSD firmware and updated EFI to latest. Still happens.

Might want to uncheck the Intel graphics driver before SP1.

Or download a legit SP1 iso (ie, no hacks, it'll activate fine with your key+is legal). Or slipstream SP1, but that's messier.

Colonel O'Neill wrote:Might want to uncheck the Intel graphics driver before SP1.

Yeah, I figured that part out when I stepped into it for the n-th time. Appears that SP1 is necessary to get this machine going before installing any drivers. Once installed it all went ok with no bluescreens. I guess that's a lesson learned.

blackomegax wrote:Or download a legit SP1 iso (ie, no hacks, it'll activate fine with your key+is legal). Or slipstream SP1, but that's messier.

Will do that at some point since my W7 install has no SP1 included.

So where do I get the SM Bus and other drivers? I couldn't find them on Lenovo's website.

Try running this utility then google the device ID's it finds.
http://www.zhangduo.com/udi.html

Thanks Harry, that helped. Got all the drivers, it's working well now.

Now on to my other gripe - the screen. I just don't understand how Lenovo could put such a crappy screen on such an expensive system. Even Apple doesn't have the guts to do that lately. It feels like the lower part of the system was designed by a team of engineers and upper part was designed by bean counters and marketing people. It's so bad that I can discern individual pixels on the screen without much concentration and I haven't been able to do that for a long time. Also 16:9 ration is just awful with barely any room on the screen itself for content.

So that got me thinking. Does anybody has any idea if T410s screen is electrically and physically compatible with T420s? Yes, I know it will void the warranty but at least the screen will be usable. Is it otherwise of better quality at all or is it the same exact thing with 16:10 ratio?

It's probably about the same with the T410s screen.

No one really produces good 14" screens (certain exceptions).

synchromesh wrote:It's so bad that I can discern individual pixels on the screen without much concentration and I haven't been able to do that for a long time.

I doubt that. Unless you're just a couple inches from the screen what you're actually observing is an artifact of the matte coating on the panel. At normal operating distance, most people's eyes lack the visual acuity to resolve the border between individual identically-colored pixels.

Now that doesn't make the grain effect any less annoying if you keep spotting it, but at least you know what it is.

It bothered me too for the first couple days, but then I stopped looking for it -- now I don't even notice it.

ThinkRob wrote:At normal operating distance, most people's eyes lack the visual acuity to resolve the border between individual identically-colored pixels.

I'm missing every second column of pixels (long story) and I no longer notice it except on patches of text. XD

ThinkRob wrote:I doubt that. Unless you're just a couple inches from the screen what you're actually observing is an artifact of the matte coating on the panel. At normal operating distance, most people's eyes lack the visual acuity to resolve the border between individual identically-colored pixels.

Now that doesn't make the grain effect any less annoying if you keep spotting it, but at least you know what it is.

It bothered me too for the first couple days, but then I stopped looking for it -- now I don't even notice it.

Thank you, at least now I know. Hopefully I'll teach myself to ignore it. But I must admit that implanting a T410s screen is still on my mind. Just hate that 16x9 ratio.

synchromesh wrote: Thank you, at least now I know. Hopefully I'll teach myself to ignore it. But I must admit that implanting a T410s screen is still on my mind. Just hate that 16x9 ration

The 16:9 ratio is only annoying if you're looking at physical size. In terms of the resolution, the T420/T420s is superior to its predecessors: 1600x900 is (obviously) better than 1440x900 in terms of pixel real estate.

synchromesh wrote: Now on to my other gripe - the screen. I just don't understand how Lenovo could put such a crappy screen on such an expensive system. Even Apple doesn't have the guts to do that lately. It feels like the lower part of the system was designed by a team of engineers and upper part was designed by bean counters and marketing people. It's so bad that I can discern individual pixels on the screen without much concentration and I haven't been able to do that for a long time. Also 16:9 ration is just awful with barely any room on the screen itself for content.

Quoted for truth. My ten year affair with Thinkpads may be coming to a close because of this. I had a Sony Z series and the screen on it is stupendous. High contrast, great clarity, really easy on the eyes despite the high PPI. It's a pity the HINGE THAT HOLDS IT TO THE COMPUTER is made of spongecake and loctite, thank goodness Thinkpad got that right. I went from my Sony Z11 to a T420s and all I can say is: that is a really big bezel and a really ugly screen. Everything else about the machine is superb which just makes the screen that much more frustrating.

There's a point to having large bezels.

The fact still remains: Lenovo just doesn't make money putting great screens into this lineup.

Colonel O'Neill wrote:There's a point to having large bezels.

The fact still remains: Lenovo just doesn't make money putting great screens into this lineup.

What is the point of having large bezels? I sure would like to know.

I don't understand why bezels are bigger in non-4:3 thinkpads either. Some say it's because of cables for antenna and webcam. It may be also for structural stiffness for holding the LCD panel assembly. Others say it's for putting in full size keyboard.

Regarding putting in T410s LCD into T420s, T420s is wider and narrower; so it will be hard to fit in T410s LCD into T420s. Probably better off getting a different notebook if having a better display is important. Once enough people start abandoning Thinkpads, may be they will notice and put in better displays. Lenovo makes profit on volume so even $10-20 change in margin is important to them. Most buyers don't complain so bad LCD will be a norm.

MIMO antennae and the webcam are pretty much it. 16:10 and 16:9 also marked the change to a different structural paradigm with different materials with different physical properties, which probably necessitates the increased bezel.

And of course they notice the feedback. We're still too insignificant a portion of their market share for it to be economical to cater to. You'd need entire corporations abandoning ThinkPads for their screens (which then implicitly means each machine would have to cost more to pay for the extra screen, and corporations don't like that).

synchromesh wrote:So where do I get the SM Bus and other drivers? I couldn't find them on Lenovo's website.

Use ThinkVantage System Update to get your drivers, it'll download and install the newest ones automatically.

http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... PDATE.html

What is the point of having large bezels? I sure would like to know.

MIMO antennae and the webcam are pretty much it. 16:10 and 16:9 also marked the change to a different structural paradigm with different materials with different physical properties, which probably necessitates the increased bezel.

It's not the webcam or the antenna or the new materials or anything like that. It's the same reason they switched to 16:9 in the first place. It's cost cutting. That's all it is. This way they can do minimal modifications to the T410. If they were to shrink that bezel there would be less space for the keyboard and touchpad. They would have to redesign the keyboard and touchpad or make the touchpad tiny. The T series is no longer the no compromise notebook it used to be.

sir_synthsalot wrote: It's not the webcam or the antenna or the new materials or anything like that. It's the same reason they switched to 16:9 in the first place. It's cost cutting. That's all it is.

It's cost cutting insofar as they don't want to spend the extra money to purchase LCD production facilities and start making the screens themselves.

They simply don't have the demand/volume to get the panel makers to make 4:3 screens just for them. Plain and simple It would be cost cutting if 4:3 notebook panels were still made, but Lenovo was choose 16:9 panels to save money. That's not what we have here though: *none* of the major panel makers currently produce stock 4:3 panels for notebooks. None. Since Lenovo lacks the volume to place an order for custom panels, about the only way that I see that they could get 4:3 screens would be if they were to acquire the means to produce them. If that sounds like a good idea, you might want to consider the fate of IDTech...

It's cost cutting insofar as they don't want to spend the extra money to purchase LCD production facilities and start making the screens themselves.

They simply don't have the demand/volume to get the panel makers to make 4:3 screens just for them.

I was actually talking about switching from 16:10 to 16:9. That's why there is a large bezel on the T420.

16:10 screens are still available, but 16:9 is cheaper so they went with that, and instead of redesigning the notebook to better fit the 16:9 screen they just made a giant bezel because again it's cheaper. That's just my theory though.

That's not what we have here though: *none* of the major panel makers currently produce stock 4:3 panels for notebooks. None. Since Lenovo lacks the volume to place an order for custom panels, about the only way that I see that they could get 4:3 screens would be if they were to acquire the means to produce them.

Since you did bring up 4:3 panels, Panasonic toughbooks still have 4:3. 4:3 panels are still being produced, just not for mainstream computers. 4:3 are still made for industrial applications. Of course I don't except Lenovo to go back to 4:3, and I'm not an industry insider, but the idea that 4:3 panels are so archaic that you couldn't pay anyone to make them for you, and you would have to build your own manufacturing facilities just sounds a little bit silly to me.

4:3, 16:9, 16:10, who makes 'em, who doesn't.

This is an old battle that doesn't need to be fought again here. Move on, or take it somewhere that I'm not.


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Yeah, this is an unfortunate set of circumstances. I just hope that they listen to their customers down the road and start making the screens better. I'm using my system now and I suppose it's possible to get used to but honestly speaking I shouldn't have to on a machine like that. I would've gladly paid for a larger better optional screen.

Not a fan of 4:3 screens though. Sold my T60 recently because got tired of its screen ratio even if it was the higher res one (1440x1050). Don't miss that screen at all.

JaneL wrote:4:3, 16:9, 16:10, who makes 'em, who doesn't.

This is an old battle that doesn't need to be fought again here. Move on, or take it somewhere that I'm not.

Nobody is twisting your arm to view this topic. If you don't like it feel free to ignore it.

synchromesh wrote:

JaneL wrote:4:3, 16:9, 16:10, who makes 'em, who doesn't.

This is an old battle that doesn't need to be fought again here. Move on, or take it somewhere that I'm not.

Nobody is twisting your arm to view this topic. If you don't like it feel free to ignore it.

You noticed the Admin rank, didn't you? No? Take a week off to think about it.

XD

Getting back to the point about the quality of LCD, here is a wild idea.

Selection of LCD panels at 14" is pretty limited. By going to 15.4" diagonal size, it's possible get a decent panel with 1680x1050 resolution. Samsung and LG are known to supply decent 1680x1050 LCD panels for Apple's 15 inch Macbook Pro. Not as good as IPS but considerably better viewing angle, contrast, and black level than what Lenovo supplies. You can check the article in Anandtech for review of 15" macbook pro with high resolution anti-glare LCD for test results.

The dimension of 15.4:" panel is 13.1"x8.2". T420s size is 13.5" x 9.1". If one is brave enough to trim the bezel, then it may be possible to squeeze in a decent TN panel with wide viewing angle. Potential issues are many: connector, LCD thickness and the width of the modified bezel. Not clear whether 0.2" wide bezel is enough to hold the LCD panel in place on the side,

May be it's a saving grace Lenovo lazily upped the width of T420s and gave it fat bezels.

@synchromesh, are you brave enough to try?