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R400 vs T400 keyboard

R400/R500 Series
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PhoenixR
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R400 vs T400 keyboard

#1 Post by PhoenixR » Sat Jun 01, 2024 2:52 am

Hey guys,
I've posted this in the T400 thread but seems no one has the knowledge of this there so I'm going to post it here, too.
Are the keyboards of R400 & T400 identical or different in terms of thickness & solidity? I know R400 being slightly thicker & heavier, so I've been thinking if the keyboard would be thicker & more solid, too. I'm sure someone had an opportunity to compare, it would be interesting to learn :wink:
T400 P9600 8Gb/480 SSD/Hybrid graphics/WXGA+

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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#2 Post by axur-delmeria » Sat Jun 01, 2024 6:14 am

There's no difference because they use the same keyboards.
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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#3 Post by Saucey » Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:15 pm

Essentially they are the same height, but the keys may feel different than others. Mostly because of the 3 different manufacturers, NMB, Alps, Chicony and corresponding FRUs for them.

But in my case, I liked how the R400 felt, I had s very nice condition one in the past that went against the T400. Yeah the T series is lighter, but stupidly I liked how the R400 felt. Idk if the height really made the difference or if there's just less flex on the keyboard. At least, that's what I remembered.
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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#4 Post by axur-delmeria » Sun Jun 02, 2024 12:52 am

Saucey wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:15 pm
Idk if the height really made the difference or if there's just less flex on the keyboard. At least, that's what I remembered.
Maybe it has something to do with the laptop's chassis, and how the keyboard is supported by it.
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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#5 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Jun 02, 2024 1:11 am

The difference might be in the details!

Some of these keyboard have stabilizers underneath them.
In the T400/R400 HMM they are not mentioned anywhere !
In the T500/W500 HMM they are mentioned under "Miscellaneous parts" as part of package 45N5500
In the R500 HMM they are also not mentioned anywhere.

There are 4 sets of parts depending on 14" or 15" chassis and whether integrated or hybrid/switchable graphics.
These make use of existing screws and tapped holes in the rollcage for mounting.
As such, they can be retrofitted to existing systems, but you need to be careful in how these are installed to ensure proper routing of wires, etc.

45N5365 T400 KBD support bracket for Integ model, 2 pieces
45N5366 T400 KBD support bracket for Hybrid model, 2 pieces

45N5367 T/W500 KBD support bracket for Integ model, 2 pieces
45N5368 T/W500 KBD support bracket for Hybrid model, 2 pieces

Don't know (and never tried) if these are also supposed to fit in the R400 and R500.

For some more info: viewtopic.php?t=75541 (from 15 years ago...)
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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#6 Post by PhoenixR » Sun Jun 02, 2024 3:08 am

Saucey wrote:
Sat Jun 01, 2024 10:15 pm
Essentially they are the same height, but the keys may feel different than others. Mostly because of the 3 different manufacturers, NMB, Alps, Chicony and corresponding FRUs for them.

But in my case, I liked how the R400 felt, I had s very nice condition one in the past that went against the T400. Yeah the T series is lighter, but stupidly I liked how the R400 felt. Idk if the height really made the difference or if there's just less flex on the keyboard. At least, that's what I remembered.
For some strange reason I hear that R400 has a nicer feel than T400 not the first time :D Which seemed strange to me as the T-series were considered a higher & more expensive segment being business machines after all while R-series being a lower budget alternative transformed into SL-segment for consumers on a budget, right? :-)
(Firstly, I thought that was just some R400 owner's biased opinion but looks like I might be wanting to prefer R400 to T400? :) )

As to the keyboard info it was pretty enlightening, thnx guys :) . So, if I got everything right:

If the keyboard of a T400 flexes, the solution could be:

1. Get the stabilizers (for a laptop produced before March 2009) - that is to say, how could the manufacture date be verified and where to get these parts?
2. Replace the keyboard with another one - a T61 one or a T400 one - which would be better to get? And if to get a T400, which one to stick to - NMB, Alps or Chicony and how to verify the maker visually?
T400 P9600 8Gb/480 SSD/Hybrid graphics/WXGA+

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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#7 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:59 am

Keyboards between the R60/R61/T60/T61/Z60/Z61/R400/T400/T500/W500/X200/X201 are interchangeable.
Edit: X200/X201 do NOT belong here.

Best: NMB
Second: Alps
Third: Chicony.
IMHO overall best are the keyboards from R60/R61/T60/T61.

Don't know the KBs from Z60/Z61.

All other KBs from there on have a thin backpanel with lots of holes, making them rather weak.
That's probably why they needed those stabilizers.
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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#8 Post by TPFanatic » Sun Jun 02, 2024 7:33 am

My first thought was one of your keyboards was the perforated swiss-cheeseboard version introduced for *400,*500,even W700 and w701 got swiss-cheeseboard. It is lighter but flimsier than the older ibm-style solid backplate keyboards last used in *61, but entirely interchangeable.

Z series uses solid-backplates like other 60/61.

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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#9 Post by dr_st » Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:02 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Sun Jun 02, 2024 4:59 am
Keyboards between the R60/R61/T60/T61/Z60/Z61/R400/T400/T500/W500/X200/X201 are interchangeable.
Surely not the X200/X201? They look slightly different and have 4 screw posts instead of 1. Can they be hacked in somehow still?
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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#10 Post by TPFanatic » Sun Jun 02, 2024 5:40 pm

The x200 and x201 keyboards are shaped different at the top bar, the ribbon goes in a different spot, and the keys are electrically mapped differently. They’re totally physically incompatible.

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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#11 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jun 03, 2024 12:13 am

You are right, X200/X201 is not part of this group.
I had this info in some old file from 2008.
I have corrected my above post
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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#12 Post by PhoenixR » Sun Jun 09, 2024 3:18 pm

So guys I disassembled one & pulled keyboard out. But there's no hint of a manufacturer. No NMB, Alps or Chicony. Just the following info:
Part Number
FRU
ID Number
Model
& some numeric info. That's all.
The pic is available here:
https://ibb.co/0f1sgvn

How to determine the manufacturer :?:
T400 P9600 8Gb/480 SSD/Hybrid graphics/WXGA+

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Re: R400 vs T400 keyboard

#13 Post by TPFanatic » Sun Jun 09, 2024 3:59 pm

Enter the FRU number into lenovos parts lookup https://support.lenovo.com/id/en/parts-lookup

42t3958 is NMB, and it's the swisscheese version

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