Thinkpads Forum

Hi!


The subject is my question. Is R series officially dead and will be replaced with L series?
Is it worth to buy and R400 today(because of the rollcage and the price)? Wiil be enough acessories to this notebook after the end of the R series?

What do you think about this laptop? I would use for average things: internet, word proc., watching movies (not HD). I primarily worry about the processor's performance.

Processor type: Intel Core 2 Duo T6670 (800MHz FSB, 2MB L2 cache) 2,2 GHz
Memory: 2GB (1x2GB) max. 4GB PC3-8500 1066MHz DDR3
Harddrive: 250GB/5400rpm HDD, ThinkPad Shock Mounted Harddrive, Active Protection System
Screen: 14,1" WXGA, LED (1280x800, 185 nit, 300:1) anti-glare
Optical Drive: DVD±RW DL (fix)
Chipset: Mobile Intel GM45 Express
Video: Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 4500MHD
Battery: 6-cell


(z)

zlad wrote:The subject is my question. Is R series officially dead and will be replaced with L series?

Yes.

zlad wrote:Is it worth to buy and R400 today(because of the rollcage and the price)? Wiil be enough acessories to this notebook after the end of the R series?

Cannot say what is worth and what isn't, as it depends mostly on your preferences, but T and R series share most of their accessories (basically everything except the optical drive), so as long as there are accessories for T, there will be accessories for R.

Generally, some of the accessories (batteries, docking stations) have been changed with the latest generation (T410/T510 and others), and won't be compatible with older machines. However, if experiences teaches me something, older accessories will still be available for years and years, like now you can still buy docks/batteries/adapters for T4x/R5x, in fact you can often buy them very cheaply in perfect (even if not "new") condition.

zlad wrote:What do you think about this laptop? I would use for average things: internet, word proc., watching movies (not HD). I primarily worry about the processor's performance.

The laptop itself is essentially a slightly thicker T400. The differences are negligible. As far as the CPU goes, the tasks you listed are quite average, as you say, and even far weaker CPUs will cope with no difficulty.

Thanks for your reply. Now I think I will buy one before they disappear from Hungary like the cheaper T400 models.


(z)

i recall seeing an R400 in the marketplace .. it could have been sold, but no harm in looking

zlad wrote:The subject is my question. Is R series officially dead and will be replaced with L series?

Don't think of the R series as officially dead. To me, the L series is really the R series but with a new name and design (they're both "mainstream enterprise" ThinkPads).

I think the they SL has morphed into the L series, which has replaced the R series.

Looking back at 14" models, who needs the R series now that the T series is nearly the same size? Why have another line (that basically uses the same components) for one tenth of an inch?

R50/R51/R52/R60 --> 1.35 - 1.46" thick
R61 --> 1.2 - 1.37" thick
R400 --> 1.2 - 1.4" thick
T410 --> 1.1 - 1.3" thick

The T40 came out seven years ago, you would think that evolution of a laptop would see some weight loss and reduction in thickness, but it didn't happen. The Z60t/Z61t were on the right track, but mistakenly call Z series, not T series. They added performance, but didn't balloon in size or weight.

T40 --> 1.0 - 1.2" thick
Z60t/Z61t --> 1.05 - 1.22" thick
T60 --> 1.0 - 1.2" thick
T61 --> 1.09 - 1.26" thick
T410s --> 0.83 - 1.02" thick

The T series fattened up since the T4x line. There's no place for the R series now.

Another way to look at it is this, the spirit of the T40 is now found in the T410s models. The T410s model is actually thinner than the T40, but it took 7 years to create.

The spirit of the R50 is now found in the T410 models. The T410 is only one tenth of an inch thinner than the R400! T410 could easily have been called the R410. However, why do that, T series sell for more and in higher volume!

Bottom line, the T400s/T410s are the only true T series machines, the rest are R series with T series stickers and rubberized covers masqueraded to sell at higher prices for corporate buyers that have bought "top of the line" ThinkPads since the 90s.

It's a possibility anyway!

underclocker wrote: Bottom line, the T400s/T410s are the only true T series machines, the rest are R series with T series stickers and rubberized covers masqueraded to sell at higher prices for corporate buyers that have bought "top of the line" ThinkPads since the 90s.

It's a possibility anyway!

Ummm, disagreeing on that
I have a T43 and T410. My father has a T30. Last time I checked the T410 qualifies as much as being a T series as the T43 and T30 does.

However, there is this movement of people who love to scream the T4x0s is "The Last True (Lenovo) Thinkpad" and only if you have a SSD on it and they will utterly scream at you when you try to bring up logic with them, especially in anything engineering related. Obviously touchy-feely is more important than actual facts and truth.

The T410 I have is a huge improvement over the T43 (15") and in terms of fatness, it doesn't really seem to of "grown" compared to the T43. That is, if you count the giant magnesium alloy frame inside there that the marketing guys call a rollcage. Beautiful work to prevent motherboard flex failure and it protects the harddrive much more than the T43 does.

Oh right my aunt also has a T42 (14.1") with the ATI 7500 but it seems to be doing OK for a four point something maybe like five year old T42. No warranty issues either.

To me the L Series looks like crap and made out of less denser material more in common with the SL series that lacks support for some stuff like docking stations and more accessories. R series was perfect because you could tell it was a T series sibling and had the almost the same casing and perfection, now the L series makes me think of more of a cosumer machine than a business. I bought a new R 61 this year new because it was never used and has warrenty I rather stay with this machine for long time because it looks like it could take a hit.

dr_st wrote:but T and R series share most of their accessories (basically everything except the optical drive)

Actually, you can use the optical drives and hard drive bays of the T-series in the R-series, but not the other way round.

makaveli559m wrote:To me the L Series looks like crap and made out of less denser material more in common with the SL series that lacks support for some stuff like docking stations and more accessories.

I'm getting so sick and tired of people judging something (or someone for that matter) before they even know if its true or not (or before they get to know them). Next time, do your research before you judge.

thePCxp wrote:I'm getting so sick and tired of people judging something (or someone for that matter) before they even know if its true or not (or before they get to know them). Next time, do your research before you judge.

Settle down. He's as entitled to his opinion as you are to yours.

Hi, everybody. I can't believe what I read. How lucky I am . Some time ago I was about to buy Thinkpad R 61, as recommended from a friend who has one, and he asked instead of me in IBM, and guess what... that one already was gone. Then I start looking at other R series. And i was going to look for R500. And now this... . So what to do now? So long and me without one thinkpad, which I desire since i first met this laptop, thanks to my friend who is guilty that I am frustrated now. And yes I want exactly thikpad.
So what you guys here, recommend me now? What to look for now, hopefully it won't be missing until I buy one . And I have more question but I'll look to the forum closer, for different topic for my questions, or somebody can link me where to put my questions about marketing for thikpad in Europa?

Ok so now, who is willing to give me ideas?

You could look at the T410i or T510i. They're probably the budget ThinkPads now.

Thanks, Fred. I'll check it out.

FredGarvin wrote:You could look at the T410i or T510i. They're probably the budget ThinkPads now.

That is true. They are actually a very good value. My wife was just issued a T410i. It's nicely configured for well under $1K, but it is thick. Hardly an evolution in design from the original T40. The T410/T410i models are even thicker than the 14" T61/T400 models. It's nearly identical in size and weight to a 14" R61 model.

After handling this machine and several T410s models, I am further convinced that for 14" units, the R-series is now the T410 and T410i models and the T-series is now the T410s or T410si. Calling as many models a "T-series" is just good marketing. How long has GM milked "Cadillac"?!

One thing to keep in mind is that while the new T410 is thicker than previous generations (and a bit awkward to carry with the lid closed), it is actually lighter. Yes, indeed, lighter than the 14" T60 even, which surprised me. The extra thickness of the base allows for the stacked USB ports to be father apart, which can come handy sometimes. Although I think really it was to accommodate for the DisplayPort with its thicker cables.

Overall I like the design of the T410. I was looking at the T410s, but the couple IT guys here who testified about lots and lots of problems with them (T400s mostly, but still) make me wonder.

In some ways you can look at the T400s series as the evolution of the T-series, but not in all aspects. It really is much thinner than the classic T, and you pay a price for that.

Non-upgradeable CPU, no extended battery support, no 15" variant - these are all things we've had in the T-series since T4x - and the new slim variants don't offer them. In some ways T410s is more an X series evolution.

underclocker wrote:That is true. They are actually a very good value. My wife was just issued a T410i. It's nicely configured for well under $1K, but it is thick. Hardly an evolution in design from the original T40. The T410/T410i models are even thicker than the 14" T61/T400 models. It's nearly identical in size and weight to a 14" R61 model.

After handling this machine and several T410s models, I am further convinced that for 14" units, the R-series is now the T410 and T410i models and the T-series is now the T410s or T410si. Calling as many models a "T-series" is just good marketing. How long has GM milked "Cadillac"?!

I'd say that's a well reasoned conclusion, but then question becomes, do you wish to emulate the T4x machines, which had a lot of reliability issues due to their thinness? I thought the R series offered a lot of value because you could get them for less than T unless you needed some of the premium features the T offered like WWAN of the GPUs. The R series was close enough size/weight wise, at least for the 14" models, I don't think most people would notice it. Perhaps at the end of the day, Lenovo wanted to create some separation between the T(the star of the Thinkpad line) and the R series since they had become so close, which is how you get the L series.

dr_st wrote:One thing to keep in mind is that while the new T410 is thicker than previous generations (and a bit awkward to carry with the lid closed), it is actually lighter. Yes, indeed, lighter than the 14" T60 even, which surprised me.

I just put the T410i on the scale, it weighs 4 lbs. 15.9 oz. This is the exact same weight that any T40/T41/T42/T43/T60/T61 would weigh, with a similar configuration. I have also commented in previous threads that there can be variation by as much as 2-3 oz. with any model due to the sourcing of the parts. Some panels, batteries, hard drives, memory sticks, optical drives, etc. weigh slightly more or less than others. I've purposely built T4x machines to a couple of ounces under 5 lbs., but I've also seen some a couple of ounces over. AFAICT, the T410 models weigh the same as their relatives.

I suppose this thread should be taken too seriously. What I'm really saying is that the cutting edge aesthetic design that was associated with the T23's and T40's really seem lost on today's big T410 models.

It may be for a good reason (reliability), but Apple, for instance, still knows that aesthetics equals consumer desire.

To put it another way, I feel the T410 is a great machine that is well layed out and designed for modularity, but my consumer attraction and design appreciation is far greater for the more limited T410s. Head vs. heart!

underclocker wrote:I just put the T410i on the scale, it weighs 4 lbs. 15.9 oz. This is the exact same weight that any T40/T41/T42/T43/T60/T61 would weigh, with a similar configuration.

This is with the 6-cell battery, and it is a bit lighter than the T60 with the same battery, but as you say - the differences are very small, and within the margin of error you mentioned. I guess when I said lighter, I should have said that I am mostly referring to the 14" widescreens, esp. T61. To get down to the weight you mentioned, you would have to use the 4-cell battery on those models.

I understand your point about aesthetics. And indeed I favor the T410s, that's no secret. However I feel that despite some aesthetic shortcomings, the regular T410 is already a huge step forward in terms of design compared to the abysmal T61/T400.

underclocker wrote:To put it another way, I feel the T410 is a great machine that is well layed out and designed for modularity, but my consumer attraction and design appreciation is far greater for the more limited T410s. Head vs. heart!

Well put.

dr_st wrote:However I feel that despite some aesthetic shortcomings, the regular T410 is already a huge step forward in terms of design compared to the abysmal T61/T400.

I completely agree. The T410 is a solid design and I wouldn't hesitate recommending it. With the T61/T400, I was always torn, thinking that the 15.4" T61 or T500 models just made more sense, since most people would prefer the 6, 7 or 9 cell batteries over the 4 cell! Adding an inch of battery depth and another 1/2 pound put you close to the size and weight of a comfortable 15.4" widescreen machine with a 6 cell.

Unless a two hour, 4 cell battery works for you, the 14" T61/T400 design is not well thought out.

underclocker wrote: .....
Bottom line, the T400s/T410s are the only true T series machines, the rest are R series with T series stickers and rubberized covers masqueraded to sell at higher prices for corporate buyers that have bought "top of the line" ThinkPads since the 90s.

It's a possibility anyway!

As a T410 owner, and by looking all the current thinkpads offering from Lenovo, i think the statement above have a strong substantial claim. T410s with T410 is like a T60 compare to R60 in those days.

Would it be logic, the next step they will eliminate T410 and replacing it with T410s design platform only? Look what happened with X30x series, the "extreme thin and light" principle have been morphed to T410s.

Beside they already have too many lines : L, T, Ts, X, SL~is it still current?... and not mentioning Edge... the house is full...

sapibobo wrote: Would it be logic, the next step they will eliminate T410 and replacing it with T410s design platform only? Look what happened with X30x series, the "extreme thin and light" principle have been morphed to T410s.

Beside they already have too many lines : L, T, Ts, X, SL~is it still current?... and not mentioning Edge... the house is full...

Pessimistic prediction:
The T410s is left to wither and die like the X301. The SL series is retired, making the L-series the "low-budget" line. The Edge is promoted to the same level as the R was, and the existing T-series continue their (d)evolution towards R-level build/design. The X100e remains a rebadged IdeaPad, but is given more of the X-series spotlight (at the expense of the X201(s)) as Lenovo continues its race towards the bottom.

Optimistic prediction:
Elements of the T410s design move to the next T4xx. The SL series is taken out back and shot. The Edge series stays where it is, and is not updated. The T410s evolves, getting closer to where the X301 was. The T5xx series and W5xx series continue to slowly converge. The X2xx series receives only incremental performance boosts and a slightly improved keyboard design, as the chassis design is about perfect IMO. The X100e gets Atom, but remains in its sort-of-netbook-sort-of-ThinkPad role.

The x100e is really an Edge, so I suppose what you're saying about the T series is possible.

I love my R61's thick bezel: with a few inches of 3M Dual-Lock tape, I can (and do) secure a pair of Logitech V20 USB speakers to the top bezel or side bezels. I also Dual-Lock a Samson Go Mic to the top. You can't do this with a narrow bezel.