Thinkpads Forum

I've been at home in Elk Grove most of this summer, mostly to take on a pretty harsh job that I did not enjoy (selling Pest Control door to door for $50 a day + commission, and for 7-8 hrs a day) but also to spend time with High school friends and family. I've also had the chance to talk over laptops with some of my friends who lost theirs or have had to deal with constantly repairing theirs; I've mentioned it on this forum elsewhere (I think on the article topic) but most of the laptops have broken in various ways, simply because of the terrible engineering of the laptops sold nowadays. So they've conversed with me about simply getting them Thinkpads, and you won't believe how much that's spread.

I've sold 6 W500s, all to friends, and more are interested but haven't set anything in stone. I'm writing down their opinions that I've sort of gotten from them in asking, so I can make sure I haven't jipped anyone up. All these testimonies are W500 units, with the full FireGL V5700 and T9400/T9600, with either a WSXGA+(1680x1050) or WUXGA(1920x1200) screen.

Allyson(my stepsister) - first to look into it, spent 6 months saving up $300 in cash to get it, pretty funny. She's annoyed at the wobbly screen, which I keep telling her the screws that hold the cage firm are probably not tight, and I keep forgetting to tighten them for her. Other than that, she enjoys the laptop a ton, and frequently uses it to edit video in Sony Vegas and chat with her Japanese friends, as well as game with us during gaming get-togethers. She got one with a T9600, the WSXGA+ screen, a webcam, and 4GB RAM. She says hers overheats sometimes(shuts off without warning during gaming) but she often puts it on a pillow when she uses it on her lap to keep the heat getting to her thighs. Other than that, she hasn't had any issues. What's pretty awesome is that she's also gone out of her way to install a Japanese regional keyboard on her W500, layout looks like this
Jackson(friend) - His last laptop was an HP DV7(his mom paid $800 for it) that he had me repair at least 3 times, I told him if he kept it, I'd suspend free repairs. He got fed up of it being fidgety and broken anyway, so he decided to look into buying a Thinkpad. Because he doesn't have any money to spare, he originally was looking at buying one of my junky 14" T60s for $70, but I found a parting W500 for $100 and convinced him he should pounce on it. I did the final assembly and his unit ended up being a nicer one with the T9400, but 6GB of RAM(salvaged from his busted HP DV7), and a WUXGA screen. We had to buy a HDD, battery and charger, but still in the end he only had to spend $160 to get a complete unit for daily use. Most of the other W500 buyers are extremely jealous and teeved at him He's reported no problems and says it's a total dreamboat over his HP DV7.
Caleb(friend) - His last laptop was an HP Pavilion laptop his mom handed down to him. It had overheating problems and was just old, but after trying out some W500s I had handy, he was interested in getting one. He got a WSXGA+ screened one with 3GB RAM(he's upgraded it since then), a webcam, and a T9400. He's also since then bought a 2503 Advanced Dock and got a Radeon 6450 (via my recommendation) and used it to plug into his HDTV with HDMI. He's also bought an UltraBay HDD tray. His I think was $220 for the laptop without an HDD. He's also reported no reliability issues and enjoys the more solid feel over his HP, and also loves the dock and the UltraBays. His I think was $270 altogether.
Andrew(co-worker/friend) - looking for a college laptop, Andrew decided to look into buying a W500. His unit is a very nice one with the WUXGA screen, T9600 CPU, 4GB of RAM and a webcam. He bought his from me VERY recently, so he doesn't have a formed opinion over reliability, but he loves the extraneous features(Thinklight, Displayport, UltraBay) and looks forward to gaming on it.
Joseph(co-worker/friend) - pretty much same thing as Andrew, except he's far less tech-savvy. He's constantly called or texted me reporting that the laptop won't power on, but then texting me back 5 minutes later saying "nvm, I figured it out." His was $280, and had the T9400, but was nice otherwise: 4GB RAM, came with a 500GB HDD, a webcam, and the WUXGA display. It functioned perfectly with no issues when I was using it for quality-assurance purposes, so I'm always quite skeptical and antagonizing whenever he pesters me about it failing. He says he likes it otherwise however.
Josh(sister's boyfriend/friend) - His is probably the nicest W500 I've ever come across, his was a Feb 2010 unit(10/02) and is in near mint condition, would've sold it on here if he didn't offer $360 for it. It was also loaded: T9600, 4GB RAM, webcam, Intel Turbo cache, WUXGA display. He was originally going to purchase a MacBook, and I think he still might since to him $360 for a laptop wasn't anything. He loved the looks of it and was a bit thrown off by how old it was... but after seeing how well it played games, he decided to buy it. He also bought his very recently, so he doesn't have a reliability report yet, but otherwise reports total satisfaction and excitement about getting it.


And if that wasn't enough, I think I'll go ahead and report on here right now that I've come into two very nice W500s recently and am using them at school for quality-assurance purposes. I'm probably going to be able to sell them on here, if anyone's remotely interested(if none of my friends, or friend's friends, or friend's moms, etc. don't call dibs first).

I'm just flabbergasted myself by this whole level of interest, but I think at the moment the T400/T500/W500 generation of Thinkpad are amazing at this particular time, because they're forgotten about enough and old enough to be found for cheap online, yet still modern and powerful enough to do anything you could need, and even far more. They also are some of the last Thinkpads to see the appropriate Thinkpad quality-engineering construction, being ridiculously and brutally tough and able to endure most of anything. Parts are also abundant, in the event something DOES go wrong.

If you have a testimony yourself of a T400/T500/W500 laptop you owned at some point, I'd love to hear about it. Even if it's negative.

Medessec wrote:I think at the moment the T400/T500/W500 generation of Thinkpad are amazing at this particular time, because they're forgotten about enough and old enough to be found for cheap online, yet still modern and powerful enough to do anything you could need, and even far more. They also are some of the last Thinkpads to see the appropriate Thinkpad quality-engineering construction, being ridiculously and brutally tough and able to endure most of anything. Parts are also abundant, in the event something DOES go wrong.

Got 3 T500 and 1 W500 and feel the same way you do. Love the fact that a lot of components from my T60, T61 and T500 are compatible with each other. Having said that I really really like the Flexview screen on my T60. If only I can do a T60-T500 Frankenpad, that would almost be perfect.

I've used a pre-production W500 as a "daily driver" for 6+ months when these were first released.

Loved everything about it apart from its absolutely lousy Samsung WUXGA panel.

Great machine in all other respects.

I've had mine 2 weeks and even with the broken hinge/cage and a very dim Samsung WUXGA screen it is one of the best laptops I've owned.

It is fast and very cool. One of the coldest laptops I've ever ran in my life.

Best of all it is easy to modify the hardware and add on and take off stuff that you need. Right now I'm in the midst of a roll cage overhaul to fix the hinge issue and an upgrade to the current dim Samsung panel. Both easy projects.

I've had mine 2 weeks and even with the broken hinge/cage and a very dim Samsung WUXGA screen it is one of the best laptops I've owned.

I read about that on another topic on here... I've never encountered that issue myself in my experience(and via proxy, my "customer's" experience), it must be related to extreme age or abuse. But I've got two spare W500/T500 rollcages from experiments, in case this issue affects any of my friend's W500s. I'll have to ask them about it.

The dim-ness of the screen isn't as much of an issue for me- I can tell pretty much when I'm using my W700ds or Frankenpad alongside a W500 I'm testing. I've noticed they obviously didn't put much work into the WSXGA+ screens.

It is fast and very cool. One of the coldest laptops I've ever ran in my life.

My friends have constantly reported the W500 scalding their thighs, or leaving hotspots on their tables. But we game on our W500s, so I suppose it depends on what you use yours for. I would agree 100%- the cooling is superb for what it has. Also-probably best to put AS5 on the CPU and GPU if you can, so every ounce of heat can go into the copper.

Best of all it is easy to modify the hardware and add on and take off stuff that you need. Right now I'm in the midst of a roll cage overhaul to fix the hinge issue and an upgrade to the current dim Samsung panel. Both easy projects.

I'd be curious about the screen upgrade if you finish it. I don't know if I'd be 100% pushed to do it myself, but I'd like to see if it's that easy. I've upgraded screens before(from the cruddy 1280x800 to a WSXGA+)

I've had about 4 W500's go through me, 3 of em bought and flipped through eBay, one of those three my brother didn't like.
I have to say, the WSXGA+ is great to see, I dunno which panel it was but it was amazing to say the least, quite happy with it, the colors just pop well with the backgrounds I throw on it. Gaming-wise, it isn't the best, I didn't mind gaming with a buddy and potential customer.
I have to say, the palmrest does get hot with the expresscard, the right side doesn't, its my only complaint.
T500 is nice as well too, but who am I kidding, I want the full on performance model, so I'll always be looking for a W500 unless its T-variant is spec'd out fully.

T400 is nice as well too, somewhat hard to get a WXGA+ screen, but well worth it. I do prefer the integrated graphics model over the discrete graphics, nice and light, cool running as well. When I had one I was testing it performed very well, I was surprised, it didn't do good at the gaming compared to a T61 140M but I had a P8400 CPU in that T400 I believe and that is one of the lower performance units.
But that's taking away what its meant for, nice to type on (Not as great as the T43p I am typing with at the moment ) plays music better than a T61 or X-series.

Cigarguy wrote: If only I can do a T60-T500 Frankenpad, that would almost be perfect.

Its feasible, there is a 'T62' that Medessec linked to on a different topic.
I'm trying to make one myself, I'm going to have to gamble on this extender, I got a SATA extender and a heavily filed and possibly ticking timebomb chassis, no speakers, no ultrabay, headphone jacks unavailable, the whole left side between the fan and expresscard slot is exposed. Twas time consuming filing, if I had better tools like a skill saw and blowtorch, I'd just cut both chassis and make due with it.

Mod-edit: to make your "own" quotes, you need to put the name between "", like: quote="username"

Saucey wrote:T400 is nice as well too, somewhat hard to get a WXGA+ screen, but well worth it. I do prefer the integrated graphics model over the discrete graphics, nice and light, cool running as well.

Don't forget the switchable graphics on the W500. I prefer that over the optimus automatic switching.

Only complaint I have with the W500 is the slight screen wobble, but it's not really an issue.

Medessec wrote:She's annoyed at the wobbly screen, which I keep telling her the screws that hold the cage firm are probably not tight, and I keep forgetting to tighten them for her.

I was under the impression that wobbly screen was typical of all W500 units. How do you tighten the screen? I don't see any screws to tighten. I am not mechanically inclined.

SkiBunny wrote: Don't forget the switchable graphics on the W500. I prefer that over the optimus automatic switching.

Honestly, I wasn't impressed by either. The whole "switchable graphics" concept is lost on me, especially on a 15"+ system...

Only complaint I have with the W500 is the slight screen wobble, but it's not really an issue.

The second and third generation (*61 and *00 series) of 15.4" widescreen ThinkPads seem to suffer a lot from this issue, and I could never put my finger on why the hinge design and/or QC was so darn poor.

My own "daily" T61 has none of that - knock wood - but I've seen way too many of its siblings/cousins where the LCD assembly was wobbly to the point of getting dangerous...

The 'getting wobbly' is caused by abusive treatment of the lid.
If you are right-handed, you usually open the lid with your right hand, grabbing the right corner to push it up and out.
If you are left-handed, you usually open the lid with your left hand, grabbing the left corner to push it up and out.
WRONG!
You should always lift the lid at the TOP-MIDDLE when you open it!
Grabbing it at a corner distorts/bends/flexes the lid and eventually causes it to crack/break a hinge/lid/screen!

Grabbing it at a corner distorts/bends/flexes the lid and eventually causes it to crack/break a hinge/lid/screen!

Gotta count on RBS to come in here with a flaming torch and spear and tell us the root of the problem.

I understand that fully- but it just seems odd that the problem strikes T4x and earlier a lot less, or maybe it does anyway and I haven't noticed it. But they really should anticipate that in the design... it's ok though, because you can repair it one way or another, by getting new hinges or a new cage if that's necessary.

People are going to open lids that way... not much that can be done about that. But some laptops today have AWFUL hinge solutions- the HP DV7 had a little metal plate off the tensioner, and it heat stamped into the plastic of the bottom bezel. So of course, it comes out. We'd all expect that from such a poor solution. Except it gets worse: the metal plate pushes up on the copper heatpipe when the user *tries* to open his laptop screen, and yanks upward on the CPU assembly, putting pressure and force on the mainboard, eventually killing the laptop.

W500's hinges look any better now?

Yeah man that's some Real Bad Stuff. Only machine that this occured for me was a Dell E6400 and a T61. In both instances it was really really annoying which surprised me as I'd thought it was something I could live with. But nope! Thank goodness TuuS was able to supply me with good hinges for the T61 and I had to sell my E6400.

Fortunately all the hinges on my T/W500 are great so far.

I'd be a serial killer if I would have speared all the people that came to me with such a maltreated lid!
Older models, like the T2x, T3x and T4x were much more solidly built.
Since then, lid-build and hinges have been going down in quality...
I get the occasional HP, Acer or Toshiba in for repair, and their lids are even worse!

I agree RBS, I have a T30 and 600X that feels like a tank.
But the slim/sleek designs overrule the tough factor.

Hinges were given the room to be chunky and well made back then too- with laptops being thicker. Slimmer laptops, coupled with worse quality assurance, has probably given us these slight issues with our T6x ad T5xx hinges, and all other hinges.

Medessec wrote:Slimmer laptops, coupled with worse quality assurance, has probably given us these slight issues with our T6x ad T5xx hinges, and all other hinges.

I don't know...T410/420 and T/W510/520 don't seem to suffer from these problems. Of course, you get that atrocity of a touchpad that is painful to look at, let alone touch...

And speaking of slimmer...X300/301 haven't really been known for weak hinges either...

They must've just slacked with the W500/T500 then. Sad... but again. Not as bad as it could be.

They must've done a good job with that X300 then. Weird since it was made around the same time, right?

Any other nasty issues with these things? We just dedicated a third of a page to the hinges...

Hang in there Medessec. Don't become unhinged on us.

LOL.

RealBlackStuff wrote:The 'getting wobbly' is caused by abusive treatment of the lid.
If you are right-handed, you usually open the lid with your right hand, grabbing the right corner to push it up and out.
If you are left-handed, you usually open the lid with your left hand, grabbing the left corner to push it up and out.
WRONG!
You should always lift the lid at the TOP-MIDDLE when you open it!
Grabbing it at a corner distorts/bends/flexes the lid and eventually causes it to crack/break a hinge/lid/screen!

Then why is the latch that opens the W500 lid positioned at the right corner? (instead of the middle)

Regardless of that oversight, IMO it's just poor design and/or build if the lid cannot be opened or repositioned (reasonably gently) by pushing anywhere along the top. Real world use by JQ Public demands that. Kinda like building a car that can withstand roads that are less than perfectly paved, though not the abuse of driving through potholes.

But thanks for the tip. I never knew it and I suspect I'm far from alone.

Something I commonly see ppl do is move and even lift their laptop by using the lid. Intuitively that seemed a no-no even to me.

ajkula66 wrote:I don't know...T410/420 and T/W510/520 don't seem to suffer from these problems.

That is what I wondered too. Although the shorter, wider lids of the 510/520 models have less vertical leverage and pressure on the hinges.

SkiBunny wrote:

ajkula66 wrote:I don't know...T410/420 and T/W510/520 don't seem to suffer from these problems.

That is what I wondered too. Although the shorter, wider lids of the 510/520 models have less vertical leverage and pressure on the hinges.

I think it is the sheer weight of the T500/W500 lids that leads to hinge/cage failure. I didn't realize of heavy the lid assembly was until I removed it when I was replacing the base cage.

The lid has to be at least 40% to 50% the entire weight of the laptop.

All that weight comes down on the LEFT hinge.

I had my T61 b4 getting a backup laptop my W500. I got lucky with mine as it has all top options on it. but 2 issues talked about above are not as easy to fix as stated. the loose lid hinge is due to the "rollcage" being made very thin on left rear corner allowing easy breakage. there is a youtube guy with 3 part video on changing this out (over 6 hours of tedious work) so be very careful with them especially picking laptop up by edge as any flex can bust it since screen is so big and heavy.

the other issue many have with over heating is mostly on the models with 2.8ghz processor due to no mods being done from the T61 heat sink design but thin screens added under laptop on air ports which restrict air and installed fan control dont compensate for these items. I found a guy online that created a simple TPFC = Think Pad Fan Control, app/file and designed some for other models/brands with same issues. its free download easy install and works fantastic no more overheating issues. I even put one on my T61 I liked it so much (didnt need it on the T61 though) the newest version even puts a desktop view and quick menu tab on and starts when booted up. these laptops have a temp limit of 93c when shutdown occurs, the new app stages fan speed by temp and when CPU and GPU are over 98% they never get withing 3 degrees of limit and fan RPMs get to near 5,000 then it cools down and slows down. way more sensitive than onboard control, plus you can monitor all temps, speeds etc.

I've recently acquired a number of used T500s and a W500. The one I'm currently using and two others have the wobbly screen syndrome, while the rest are super tight. I got a pretty nice one, P8600 with WSXGA+ and Switchable Graphics. Complete with TPFanControl I can play games without turning it into a lapburner.

I jumped straight from R50p-T42p (IMO the best of the IBM, Pentium M era, literally loved them to death) to T500 (the last of the C2D era), and I really love the build quality on this machine. I'm really glad that Lenovo put metal framing in the cases, which seems to protect well against the infamous flexing moboard failure on the aforementioned IBMs.

I also really like the 16:10 aspect ratio on the T500. I've seen posts here comparing the heights of 15.4" 16:10 machines with 14.1" 4:3 machines and they're basically the same height, which is why I love 16:10 so much. It's supposed to be like 4:3 but with more pixels. Can't go wrong with more pixels. (In the meantime, 17" 16:10 like on the W700 should be comparable to the height of 15" 4:3, but I don't have a W700 to compare) I do miss Flexview though, but I hope the T500's CCFLs last longer than the Flexview backlights.

TPFanatic wrote: I do miss Flexview though, but I hope the T500's CCFLs last longer than the Flexview backlights.

While not an IPS panel, the Sharp WUXGA LCD (originally found in Dells from this era) is a very nice screen, and arguably the best one that can be installed in any 15.4" ThinkPad. I have it in my T500 and am very happy with it.

Obviously, YMMV.

On the wobbly hinge issue, my T410 has this.

If I put my finger on the top of the LCD and wiggle I get about 1/4" of play. Is there a simple fix? If not, I will live with it as it never really bothers me. It's just one of those "oh yeah, mine does that" things that pop up when reading the forums. Otherwise I don't really notice it.

I have a couple of T61 15.4" screens that wobble. Do those need new hinges? I have two or three T500 models one had hinge problems but I tightened the hinges reducing the wobble significantly. The other is a gem of a T500 with strong hinges.

Temetka wrote:
If I put my finger on the top of the LCD and wiggle I get about 1/4" of play. Is there a simple fix?

No.

Hans Gruber wrote:I have a couple of T61 15.4" screens that wobble. Do those need new hinges?

Yes.

Mine has play in it too, but I'm not that worried about changing the hinges out just yet.

I love my T500. I wish I could get that aspect ratio screen on my T510 & T520.

My T500 is used mostly as a music computer. It's also the computer I take outside for the patio table when I'm outside enjoying a Bitburger and playing with Lisl von Schlaf.

This T500 was a CTO and has nearly everything included that could be ordered with the T500 from the web site including the Ericsson Wireless HSPA WWAN Minicard for Verizon and the Intel 802.11agn+802.16e WiMAX wireless adapter.

Whoever ordered this wanted to make certain they stayed connected no matter where they were. I'm thinking part- or full time stock broker, investment banker, or other financier.

It also has all three card slots, nine-cell battery and 90 watt adapter/charger, security chip, ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3650 w/ 256 MB, and Firewire connector.

The processor and screen are not top of the line however, and this makes me lean towards the finance side of business for this system rather than a graphics or design application.

Core 2 Duo processor P8600 and the WXGA (1280 × 800 resolution) TFT color LCD, LED backlit screen are included.

Cosmetically, it's as new to new as you can get with just a little of the rubberized finish wear on the front lid corners. No keyboard wear nor on the trackpad.

I upgraded it to Windows 7 Pro 64 and 4GB of ram. It came with 100GB hard drive. I haven't decided to change this yet, since it's not really a computer i would use for storage and the 65+ GB left is really all it needs. I have the T520 with nearly 1TB internally and an external Seagate with 2TB for storage duty.

I'm going to put this 2TB drive on my network as soon as I get a USB connector adapter.

On the hinge issue: It depends on how they are designed. There is a guide on the German forums that explains how to fix wobbly hinges. I am just posting it here because of the pictures: https://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/17232 ... +scharnier

It's pretty obvious that, considering the manner in which these hinges are designed, they will wear out over time. So if you ask me, models that have hinges which never wear out (like the 600X or X300) probably have a completely different hinge design.

Quality is an issue as well, although I'd put that in a seperate category. The T60 and T61 demonstrate this very well. As far as I can tell they have the same hinge design, but while the T60 hinges do become wobbly, it never reaches the same catastrophic levels as the T61 and breaking hinges are only a known problem on the latter as well. Even when adjusting the lid the T60 hinges feel vastly more premium than the, by comparison, cheap and flimsy T61 hinges.