W510 is locking up, power manager problem?

[cannongeorge]

WIN 7 64 bit W510 laptop.

Interesting puzzle, happens docked or undocked, machine works great and after 20 to 30 minutes boom everything is locked up, mouse still works but even then all I can do is ctrl-alt-delete and re-start machine. The other notable indication is twopower manager indicators (battery symbols) in the tray; and a blinking vertical line between them. Power Manager Version is 6.67.5.

This problem arrived at the same time I had loss of WiFi problem, device manager pointed to WiFi drivers, since resolved by rolling back Centrino 6250 AGN drive from V.15.11.08 to V.7.5.1007.26.

Nothing that stands out in the event viewer; but then I don't know what to look for, either.

Anyone else experience this? Don't really want a machine that fails intermittently like this.

Thanks in advance for tips/troubleshooting advice.

[RealBlackStuff]

Are you using a 90W power supply?
If so, ONLY use the 135W that originally came with it!
Maybe your machine overheats?
When did you last clean the fan and replace the thermal paste?

[Dekks]

After checking overheating as suggested above, unintsall power manager and test?

[cannongeorge]

Thanks for the tips, I was not aware overheating could be an issue!

This laptop is normally docked, so has full power available. Based upon my "add a gadget" CPU temp monitor, temp is running between 140 to 150 degrees F across all 8 cores. (65 degrees C).

Interesting, as I type this message the peculiar "double" battery symbol is now appearing and the blinking vertical line between the two appearing. Machine still working but probably not for long. Temps are now 67 degrees C (indicating (varies) 156 degrees F) I will research further into overheat issues with the W510, I never heard of the need to apply thermal paste but appreciate the advice!

[cannongeorge]

I'm not too ashamed or at all embarrassed to admit I believe I owe the Thinkpad Community a big thanks!

THANK YOU!

I simply blew out the "dust" over the (tiny) W510 air inlet ports, that alone has dropped CPU temp to indicated ~125 -130 degrees F. I believed (likely mistakenly, upon hindsight) that a home operating environment was "cleaner" than my workspace; it appears I was wrong!)

So far, since cleaning the W510 laptop is more stable. Hopefully this solves the trouble!

I cannot speak for other W510 users reading this. But the vast majority of W510 folks I have met are extremely bright people; creative as *ell; all I suggest is for you to tuck this obvious maintenance step into your list of things to do; keep your machine running the way you expect it to.

Personally, this is especially embarrassing to me; as a former SYSOP and JCL programmer on very large Control Data and IBM mainframes heat and cooling airflow were always one of the operational considerations. Underdeck floor air cooling supplies, 400 Hz Generators, humidity controls, etc. I should know better!

Thanks, Thinkpad! - For pointing me to the obvious!

[cannongeorge]

I still owe thanks to the community, but it looks like I spoke too soon!
Cleaning out the air vents helped. I thought we were done. But the machine will sometimes, not always but most often, suddenly experience weird thermal "run away" cycles were CPU temps across the board run up to 145+ degrees F. Excessive simultaneous CPU usage may or may not be indicated; (over 40%) but nothing is actually running (I've checked boot loaders, TCIP traffic, disk traffic, nothing.....)

A previous commenter mentioned the "thermal paste" used on heat sinks might be bad. After more research, I'm beginning to agree.

Anyone know of any recalls/warranty issues over this? Best DIY guide to replacing this paste?

Thanks,

[ajkula66]

Anyone know of any recalls/warranty issues over this? Best DIY guide to replacing this paste?

There were a lot of complaints about these machines running hot. No recalls that I'm aware of, though.

As for re-pasting, download the appropriate HMM (available at the link that's at the top of the page) and simply follow the instructions as if you were replacing the fan/heatsink.

You'll have to clean the old paste using isopropyl alcohol, and then apply a thin fresh coat of new paste. Different people have varying preferences when it comes to choice of paste and application methods, but Arctic Silver 5 and Arctic Ceramique have worked well for me over the years, applied via the "credit card" approach. If you Google the term you'll likely come with a bunch of hits as well as some YT videos on how to do it.

Good luck.

[bit_twiddler]

Having just done this, I may be able to offer helpful advice.

This is an informative video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VSDkB-3st4
I used the Arctic Clean products, but alcohol may have done just as well.

I used MX-2, but there are many other thermal pastes; see

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/the ... ,3600.html
and
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/the ... ,3616.html

A few small tips:

To avoid stripping the screws, apply penetrating oil and let it work for 12 hours or so.
You'll save yourself some grief by doing this. Also, the socket on my unit's motherboard
which mates to the fan connector was not soldered in (this is the only time that I've ever
seen anything like this.) It is held in by some small clips which also grab onto the fan connector.
As a result, when I pulled on the fan connector I succeeded in pulling out the mating socket
on the motherboard. After considerable inspection with a 10x loupe, and several failed attempts
which resulted in my putting this socket in backwards, I finally figured out what I had done and
got it back together properly.

After everything was done, the machine runs about 20 degrees C cooler, although it spikes up
when a core is running in turbo mode. But, it quickly comes back down again without getting any
thermal alarms, so I guess Intel knows what they are doing.

[ajkula66]

^^^^^^

Very solid advice right there.

Once you're done re-pasting the system and running it for several days afterwards, you may want to look into Throttle Stop as well. It's free and plays very well with machines from that era.

[bit_twiddler]

And, while you're at it, you might want to check out this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lS5EBNhOgCc

The W520 is similar to layout to the W510, and sure enough, the insulation on
some of the left speaker's wiring had melted. I put some 3M Super 88 electrical tape
(a high temperature electrical tape) down on the heat sink to insulate these wires
from the heat sink (and some more on top to keep everything together), just to
avoid any problems in the future. There are also some wires running to the lid
which sit on top of the heat sink near the left hinge; I put some tape there
on top of the heat sink just to keep it from cooking those wires, as well.

[cannongeorge]

Thanks to everyone for the great advice.
Dismantled everything and got it apart, cleaned it and applied new Artic silver paste (you only need to buy the small tube, it is plenty for this). I used the "Pea size dollop" method, not the "credit card method," and reseated everything.

First time back in operation (while docked) was disappointing; temperature still shot up to 150°F; and the dual tray representation of the power manager and lock-up happened. (I'm presently operating in an environment that is ambient ~85°F.) I cannot verify, but have been told my older design docking station blocks important air exhaust ports (and I agree). Lots of CPU usage per add-a-gadget core monitor. But over the course of 20 minutes, after rebooting temperatures came down, CPU usage boiled back down to <10%, temps settled to ~<125°F. I'm guessing some thermal "flow" takes place to facilitate improved thermal conductivity? Note to others doing this probably wise to turn on computer soon after re-pasting to encourage "flow" of paste to maximize effectiveness. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope this problem is solved for now.

[RealBlackStuff]

AS5 takes up to 200 hours before it settles in.
Also, applying a "pea-sized dollop" is the wrong approach!
You only need a "rice-corn dollop" and use a credit card for best results.
If you check your CPU you'll probably find AS5 all over the place...

[bit_twiddler]

It's not a bad idea to pop everything out and examine the heat sinks
just to see how it distributed itself. There is also a GPU with its own
copper conductor, and some chips that make contact with the heat
sink via blue thermal pads.

125F doesn't sound bad under moderate load, though...
What is the temperature of the graphics chip?
On Linux Nvidia distributes a tool that shows that,
surely you have something on Windows that does likewise.

[cannongeorge]

Thanks. When I say "Pea" it was pretty small; but larger than a grain of rice. (remember grain of wheat light bulbs? (another topic)) But good suggestion, I'll drop it open and check to see if material flowed over anything.

I was unfamiliar with the GPU temp monitor, and will look into that. Thanks for the tip.

[bit_twiddler]

One thing to look for is that the conductor pads are actually making contact
with 4 little chips that are near the GPU. I replaced mine with an item that
you should be able to find on FeeBay or elsewhere by searching for:

"BLUE 100X100X1 mm Thermal Conductive Compound Pad"

In my case the thermal pads had deteriorated pretty badly;
I believe that 1mm is the correct thickness (determined empirically),
but, just in case you can get a heat-conducting silicone gel that
you should be able to find by searching for:

"K5-PRO gummy sticky thermal paste grease"

to fill in any gaps. You should only need a small amount on top of the thermal
pads, or none if the pads show slight depressions without it. The stuff that I bought
came from Greece, so you might have to wait a little bit until they straighten things
out over there.

Does anybody know what these 4 chips are? (I am too lazy to round up the board layout.)
I think they probably relate to the PCH, but am not sure. In any case, I'd like to
find out what they are just so that I can monitor their temps.