Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

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Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#1 Post by xsixt » Wed May 03, 2017 11:56 pm

I am interested in those who have compared the W510 to W520 /w equivalent i7 Quad processors.

How much faster is the second gen cpu / gpu?

While I haven't used a W520, my current W510 (I7 720qm cpu / 8gb ram / 180gb SSD / 135W adapter) feels a lot more sluggish than a Dell M4600 precision (2720QM, FirePro 1gb, 16gb Ram), even with only 4 tabs open in a browser, browsing ebay. No throttling seems to be occuring on the W510.

Is the W510 really that sluggish compared to a W520 or equivalent 2nd gen i7 Q?
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Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu May 04, 2017 4:31 am

Doesn't need much to see the difference: http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-7 ... -i7-2720QM
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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#3 Post by xsixt » Thu May 04, 2017 5:19 am

I found a (the?) problem -

The W510 is not hitting turbo boost. It sits between 900Mhz-1.6Ghz on the four cores.

In contrast the M4600 hits 3.3Ghz, on one core or more, it actually reports 3.3G on four cores (but I'm sure if this is technically possible).
T60p 15" UXGA T7600 | T61p 15.4" WUXGA T9500 |
Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#4 Post by RMSMajestic » Mon May 22, 2017 3:40 pm

difference is huge.

i7 940xm performs a bit worse than i7 2630qm. 2720qm is 10-20% faster than i7 2630qm and i7 940xm is also 15% faster than 720qm.
Even a i7 2640m dual core will outperform i7 720qm in most situations.
Unless you are emotionally attached to W510, go for W520 instead
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#5 Post by xsixt » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:24 am

RMSMajestic wrote:
Mon May 22, 2017 3:40 pm
difference is huge.

i7 940xm performs a bit worse than i7 2630qm. 2720qm is 10-20% faster than i7 2630qm and i7 940xm is also 15% faster than 720qm.
Even a i7 2640m dual core will outperform i7 720qm in most situations.
Unless you are emotionally attached to W510, go for W520 instead
Yep I can confirm this - 2nd gen Sandy eats 1st gen for breakfast. Added to that the FX 880M is slow compared to a 1000M etc. so the pair probably bottleneck each other. If I have to stick with 1st gen (for aspect ratio reasons), I'd prefer a model with a replaceable GPU, otherwise sandy it is.

I can also confirm the W510 ran like rubbish (slower) when docked, which made the situation worse. It's really an OK laptop for portable purposes, but the "i7 quad" really gives you a false sense of security when used as a desktop.

But all in all, the W510 is good if priced significantly less than a W520, if you know what to expect.
T60p 15" UXGA T7600 | T61p 15.4" WUXGA T9500 |
Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#6 Post by MisterB » Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:29 pm

The W520 is much faster and uses much less wattage at the same time. I don't know why but the W510 with a 720QM that I had years ago burned more watts than my W701 with an 820QM. The W520 is much faster than either but the W701 has a great display while the W510 doesn't have any advantages at all over the W520. A W520 with an SSD and 16+gb of ram is still a great system all these years after they were in production. That being said, the W510 is still a decent machine, much faster than the core 2 duo Thinkpads that were being made at the same time. It's just that the W520 is so much better.
Currently using: A W500, a W520, an X201T, an X220T, an X61T, a 14" T60P, a 15" UXGA T60P, a W700 and a W701.
Currently idle: A spare W500, a spare X61T, a 14" T61, a 15" SXGA+ T60, a 14" T60, and my first Thinkpad, a 770X.

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#7 Post by thinkpadcollection » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:45 pm

Anything that are 1st gen processors (Nehalem & Westmere) will not be much improvement over C2D & C2Q processors. Best to go to Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge (best for current use).

I went from Core 2 to Ivy Bridge for this reason as main PC (HP Z220 tower) and still have T420, now looking at 15W haswell or boardwell but unfortunately not lenovo due to 1 socket memory if looking at U series 15W processors, I just got 2 Dell latitudes 3330 and 3340 and liking them now. Go with W530 instead and GPU is much better due to data width over W520's 64bit GPU vs W530's 128 bit GPU.

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#8 Post by xsixt » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:02 pm

MisterB wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:29 pm
I don't know why but the W510 with a 720QM that I had years ago burned more watts than my W701 with an 820QM. The W520 is much faster than either but the W701 has a great display while the W510 doesn't have any advantages at all over the W520. A W520 with an SSD and 16+gb of ram is still a great system all these years after they were in production. That being said, the W510 is still a decent machine, much faster than the core 2 duo Thinkpads that were being made at the same time. It's just that the W520 is so much better.
thinkpadcollection wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:45 pm

Anything that are 1st gen processors (Nehalem & Westmere) will not be much improvement over C2D & C2Q processors. Best to go to Sandy Bridge or Ivy Bridge (best for current use).

I went from Core 2 to Ivy Bridge for this reason as main PC (HP Z220 tower) and still have T420, now looking at 15W haswell or boardwell but unfortunately not lenovo due to 1 socket memory if looking at U series 15W processors, I just got 2 Dell latitudes 3330 and 3340 and liking them now. Go with W530 instead and GPU is much better due to data width over W520's 64bit GPU vs W530's 128 bit GPU.
Being the 1st iteration of 1st gen, the 720QM might be a bit of a dud? I have an 840QM (In a Dell Precision), and that runs much better - faster and the same if not less heat.
T60p 15" UXGA T7600 | T61p 15.4" WUXGA T9500 |
Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#9 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:21 am

Swap those CPUs (perfect time to also refresh thermal paste) and see how that goes.

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#10 Post by thinkpadcollection » Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:06 pm

Reasoning behind processor performance is I do count on per core performance as well as combined cores performance especially using OS that can use many cores which is linux and windows 10. For users using windows 7 and prior depends heavily on 1 core performance except for few software to use combined cores.

The 1st gen i core series do rather poorly on 1 core (slight better than core 2 processors in general).

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#11 Post by xsixt » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:48 pm

thinkpadcollection wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 1:06 pm
Reasoning behind processor performance is I do count on per core performance as well as combined cores performance especially using OS that can use many cores which is linux and windows 10. For users using windows 7 and prior depends heavily on 1 core performance except for few software to use combined cores.

The 1st gen i core series do rather poorly on 1 core (slight better than core 2 processors in general).
Makes sense! I could have sworn that my T61p T9500 felt snappier, sometimes, compared to the W510 720qm. Maybe I imagined it, but interestingly like you say, some benchmarks indicate the T9500 edging out the 720qm in single core mode.
T60p 15" UXGA T7600 | T61p 15.4" WUXGA T9500 |
Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#12 Post by MisterB » Sat Nov 04, 2017 7:24 am

Windows 7 and Vista handle multi core processing well. The only OS I've tried that had problems was XP x64. I've never seen one core pegged and the others idle in 7. Processing is evenly distributed regardless of app unless there is some special setup to use one or two cores as in a VM. The W510 and W520 quad cores came with 7 and Windows 7 has no problems with using all cores. The Windows 10 task manager is dumbed down so you can't see what each core is doing as in 7 but I don't think there are any vast improvements in multicore handling for these processors in W10. In newer processors perhaps that came out after 7 but not in the first and second generation i7s.
Currently using: A W500, a W520, an X201T, an X220T, an X61T, a 14" T60P, a 15" UXGA T60P, a W700 and a W701.
Currently idle: A spare W500, a spare X61T, a 14" T61, a 15" SXGA+ T60, a 14" T60, and my first Thinkpad, a 770X.

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#13 Post by xsixt » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:20 pm

Now that I've learned the 1st gens are a bit behind the 2nd gens, I am wondering if the higher clocked 2nd gen quads represent much real world improvement over the 2720qm - I started a new thread here: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=124932
T60p 15" UXGA T7600 | T61p 15.4" WUXGA T9500 |
Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#14 Post by RMSMajestic » Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:29 pm

xsixt wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:24 am

Yep I can confirm this - 2nd gen Sandy eats 1st gen for breakfast. Added to that the FX 880M is slow compared to a 1000M etc. so the pair probably bottleneck each other. If I have to stick with 1st gen (for aspect ratio reasons), I'd prefer a model with a replaceable GPU, otherwise sandy it is.

I can also confirm the W510 ran like rubbish (slower) when docked, which made the situation worse. It's really an OK laptop for portable purposes, but the "i7 quad" really gives you a false sense of security when used as a desktop.

But all in all, the W510 is good if priced significantly less than a W520, if you know what to expect.
Breakfast is overrating the 1st gen i7..... It's just some afternoon tea/snacks/ fortune cookies XD

FX880m is even more pathetic. It's an architechure from 2007, not to mention that even FX3800m is choking on youtube videos nowadays (because architecture is too old to support newer stuff properly). And I can't even scroll my facebook homepage smoothly on W701. Even though FX3800m performs better than Q2000m in benchmarks.

lack of DX 11, CUDA (which can get quite handy some times, and yet FX 880m/FX3800m has a fossile version of CUDA which neither matlab nor any other program supports), excessive amount of heat, lack of SATA 3.0, etc. I see no reason getting a W510 even if it's just $200, especially now W520/T520 has OC enabled BIOS. The only reason I might get one is if it's in extremely good condition and I might swap a W520/T520 motherboard in.
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#15 Post by MisterB » Tue Nov 07, 2017 7:36 pm

I have no issues with Facebook on a W500 with the switchable graphics set to Intel Graphics. It might be the browser, not the GPU that makes it burp on a W701. Facebook is a monster script wise and I have it thoroughly adblocked and script limited and on the server side, all games and apps disabled due to privacy concerns. I use my W701 primarily for Photoshop and other photography software. It is mid spec with only an FX2800 but does everything I need it to. I had a higher spec W701 with an FX3800 for a short while but it wasn't that big of an improvement and I sold it. Fast and slow are relative to what a computer is used for. A quad core, 16gb ram and decent GPU satisfy my photography needs. The W700 was a bit slow for that but not the W701. For just business--eBay trading, Word, Excel etc, a W500 is still enough. A T61 might be but the ram is too expensive. For the Thinkpad forum, my T60P is more than enough and that is what I use for all the forums I post on.

I agree about the W510. $100 is a reasonable price for one these days, forget $200.
Currently using: A W500, a W520, an X201T, an X220T, an X61T, a 14" T60P, a 15" UXGA T60P, a W700 and a W701.
Currently idle: A spare W500, a spare X61T, a 14" T61, a 15" SXGA+ T60, a 14" T60, and my first Thinkpad, a 770X.

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#16 Post by xsixt » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:40 pm

RMSMajestic wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 1:29 pm
FX880m is even more pathetic. It's an architechure from 2007, not to mention that even FX3800m is choking on youtube videos nowadays (because architecture is too old to support newer stuff properly). And I can't even scroll my facebook homepage smoothly on W701. Even though FX3800m performs better than Q2000m in benchmarks.

lack of DX 11, CUDA (which can get quite handy some times, and yet FX 880m/FX3800m has a fossile version of CUDA which neither matlab nor any other program supports), excessive amount of heat, lack of SATA 3.0, etc. I see no reason getting a W510 even if it's just $200, especially now W520/T520 has OC enabled BIOS. The only reason I might get one is if it's in extremely good condition and I might swap a W520/T520 motherboard in.
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Gr ... 844.0.html

Good info! I didn't know the 880m was that old!.. but you're right and that makes sense based on its ranking! I guess it's just a tweaked 770m/570m? These cards are ranked 475, 539 and 592 on that list. So yep a bit rubbish they put the 880m in the W510 in 2010, when there were much better cards released before then.

At least the 3800m ranks quite a lot higher, 271! And so do the 3700m & 2800m.. But the 2700m ranks about as bad as an 880M.

A 1st gen i7 might well be worth it, but only if it has a MXM slot & a 16:10 aspect ratio. Otherwise, what's the point, right?

Like misterB, I have gotten away using a 1 i7 with FX 3800M (Dell M6500) as a desktop - photography use, multiple tabs. It performed well 90% of the time. But the cpu and the cards run a bit hot for desktop use. This sort of PC shines more as portable workstation.

I have also juggled between a W510, T61p and T60p for study/word processing. The W510 did not show that much benefit over the T61p, and the 16:9 ratio sucked. Unlike i7 1s with 16:10 & MXM, i7 1s with 16:9 screens and soldered in dinosaurs defeat the purpose! :lol:

Now if only someone could fit a 2nd gen MXM board into a 8740w / M6500 / W701- heaven - I could get away with 1 PC :mrgreen:
T60p 15" UXGA T7600 | T61p 15.4" WUXGA T9500 |
Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#17 Post by RMSMajestic » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:31 am

xsixt wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:40 pm


https://www.notebookcheck.net/Mobile-Gr ... 844.0.html

Good info! I didn't know the 880m was that old!.. but you're right and that makes sense based on its ranking! I guess it's just a tweaked 770m/570m? These cards are ranked 475, 539 and 592 on that list. So yep a bit rubbish they put the 880m in the W510 in 2010, when there were much better cards released before then.

At least the 3800m ranks quite a lot higher, 271! And so do the 3700m & 2800m.. But the 2700m ranks about as bad as an 880M.

A 1st gen i7 might well be worth it, but only if it has a MXM slot & a 16:10 aspect ratio. Otherwise, what's the point, right?

Like misterB, I have gotten away using a 1 i7 with FX 3800M (Dell M6500) as a desktop - photography use, multiple tabs. It performed well 90% of the time. But the cpu and the cards run a bit hot for desktop use. This sort of PC shines more as portable workstation.

I have also juggled between a W510, T61p and T60p for study/word processing. The W510 did not show that much benefit over the T61p, and the 16:9 ratio sucked. Unlike i7 1s with 16:10 & MXM, i7 1s with 16:9 screens and soldered in dinosaurs defeat the purpose! :lol:

Now if only someone could fit a 2nd gen MXM board into a 8740w / M6500 / W701- heaven - I could get away with 1 PC :mrgreen:
The problem is not the ranking. FX3800m has theoretical performance better than Quadro 2000m on W520 however it's so much worse in reality. (World of warships, FX3800m struggles 30FPS but Quadro 2000m can achieve 40 FPS with a little bit of overclocking)

The most inportant thing is hardware acceleration. When I use my W701 to play 1080p youtube video it jags and shutters. However Quadro 2000m have no problem with that. And also although W701 has MXM, there's no solution to install another card on it so far. Still FX880m is beter than FX570m/FX 770m in the way that it's manufactured in a 40 nm process(better power consumption and higher overclocking) and more vRAM.

As for Dell M6500, you can have much better graphics ATI M7820 or Quadro 5000m. Trust me, thery are so much better than FX3800m. 8740w can take 980m, Quadro M5000m (if you have the need) or W7170m max out
Chobits: W701ds i7-940|32G|FX3800m|Digitizer|Calibrator
Big ones: W701 top config T63p QX9300|8G|UXGA T61p dead, please go die as well nVIDIA
Small ones: X61sp P8800X61t SXGA X201 NIB
86 airplane models/ 27 ships/ 21 computers/ 300GB databases/ 0 girlfriend
It's always happier to live in lies and delusions.

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#18 Post by thinkpadcollection » Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:43 am

What about sandy bridge or ivy bridge quad and 4 SODIMM slots and MXM slot in different HP notebook? I am not interested in 1st gen CPUs.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#19 Post by bit_twiddler » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:27 pm

Since this thread is semi-active again, I thought I'd point out that the OP has so little ram in his W510 that this fact alone
accounts for sluggish performance. Browsers like Chrome are particularly memory hungry.

I'd recommend upgrading any of the older machines (W510, W520, W701) to 32GB ram (which they all take) before
tossing them. The Sandy Bridge is about twice as fast as the previous generation, but would probably also
be sluggish with only 8gb ram.
Daily Drivers: W520 i7-2760QM | W520 i7-2860QM | T420 FHD IPS i7-2640m | W701
Others: W510 | 701C (on its shrine)
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Currently Experimenting With: T420s

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#20 Post by xsixt » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:12 pm

bit_twiddler wrote:
Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:27 pm
Since this thread is semi-active again, I thought I'd point out that the OP has so little ram in his W510 that this fact alone
accounts for sluggish performance. Browsers like Chrome are particularly memory hungry.

I'd recommend upgrading any of the older machines (W510, W520, W701) to 32GB ram (which they all take) before
tossing them. The Sandy Bridge is about twice as fast as the previous generation, but would probably also
be sluggish with only 8gb ram.
Fair suggestion - and I actually did upgrade the machine to 16gb soon after I started this thread, and it made unfortunately minimal improvement.

To rehash the original topic - It was likely one or more of the following
- Minidock series 3 caused sluggish performance
- Quad cpu (720qm) was not hitting turbo boost.

So these are the things to watch out for.

I was not the only one to experience this problem with the W510.
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... d-p/303052

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... d-p/359719
T60p 15" UXGA T7600 | T61p 15.4" WUXGA T9500 |
Former: X61 T8300 [Slow GPU] | W510 FHD QM [Top screen but 16:9 sucks] | T420s [Portable but worst LCD ever] | X201 | X200 | X60T [Slow & hot]

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#21 Post by bit_twiddler » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:53 pm

All I can say is that I have one with 32gb of ram, running on a mini-dock 3, and it isn't sluggish at all.
I'm running W10 on it, Lightroom, Photoshop, Chrome most of the time, and none of these problems
have shown up.

I think it has an FX-880M, but I'm headed to the airport, so can't confirm. I did upgrade the CPU to
an 820QM, but didn't notice much of a difference. It, as well as the 2 W701 machines that I have
with similar hardware, are all workhorses and perform well.

I'd suggest that whatever combination of OS and drivers that you are using are the problem, not
the hardware. If you're running windows, you might want to put an SSD in as the boot drive.
I haven't found it necessary, although it does take a few minutes for my W510 to boot
up and stop thrashing the boot drive.

You could try another browser, such as Opera or Firefox. Your problem might also be related to
your internet connection - do you have another machine that you can try?
Daily Drivers: W520 i7-2760QM | W520 i7-2860QM | T420 FHD IPS i7-2640m | W701
Others: W510 | 701C (on its shrine)
Non-TP: Dell m7510
Currently Experimenting With: T420s

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Re: Speed difference W510 i7 720QM vs W520 2720QM

#22 Post by bit_twiddler » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:10 pm

It just occurred to me that there could be another explanation:

Are you connecting to the internet via wifi, or ethernet? If you have a bad
wifi card, it would produce a lot of the symptoms that you describe,
such as stuttering of youtube videos. Another symptom of a bad internet
connection is that web browsers will "freeze up." They are complex
programs with concurrency issues, so if the browser is waiting for
a server to respond in one tab, all of the other tabs may freeze, even
if each tab runs in a separate thread (such as Chrome.)
Daily Drivers: W520 i7-2760QM | W520 i7-2860QM | T420 FHD IPS i7-2640m | W701
Others: W510 | 701C (on its shrine)
Non-TP: Dell m7510
Currently Experimenting With: T420s

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