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W500 Memory? Issues.

W500/510/520 and W700/710 series specific matters only
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DiagonalArg
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W500 Memory? Issues.

#1 Post by DiagonalArg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:32 am

I have two pairs of 4GB memory modules that I've tried in my W500. Both pairs are 2Rx8 DDR3 1333Mhz, and are known good:

Micron MT16JSF51264HZ-1G4D1, PC3-10600S-9-10-FP
Samsung M471B5273CH0-CH9, PC3-10600S-9-10-F2

How do I know they are good? I've hammered on them with memtest86+ for a day each in a T500. In that W500 on the other hand, they cause lock-ups. (That's v.5.01 in default mode, not in SMP.) The lock-ups are always in the same place, test #10, "Modulo 20 Random Pattern", and happen on either the first or second pass. They also happen if I test each module individually. No modules give me any "Error"s, though.

On the other hand, when I put in a pair of known good 2GB (1Rx8) modules, memtest seems to bang away just fine (I'll need to run it all night to be sure):

Hynix HMT325S6CFR8C-H9 NO AA, PC3-10600S-9-11-B2

Is there something I'm missing about the W500? Is there something specific about its memory requirements?

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:58 am

You'll need DDR3-1066 a.k.a. PC3-8500 (both run at 1066 MHz) instead of DDR3-10600 (runs at 1333MHz).
Some RAM does not work well at lower speed and/or some mobos don't like higher-speed RAM.
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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#3 Post by DiagonalArg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 6:27 am

@RBS - Thanks for that input. Any idea if there is any of the higher speed ram that would work at the lower speed in that W500? I ask because the 1333MHZ RAM also runs in the W/T520, and so if possible I'd like to keep to memory that can work in both class of machines.

Oops. Ok, those Hynix 2GB modules (see first post) are also freezing memtest. Oh, well. Why is it my T500 isn't having trouble with any of these modules??
Last edited by DiagonalArg on Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#4 Post by MikalE » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:41 am

The 500 series are most particular about what memory works in each machine. Don't know why, but I've been through this same thing a few times with T500's.
T500 C2D 2055-BE9
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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#5 Post by ajkula66 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:16 pm

MikalE wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:41 am
The 500 series are most particular about what memory works in each machine. Don't know why, but I've been through this same thing a few times with T500's.
+ 1

I don't own any of the *00 series at the moment and doubt that I ever will again, but they are a royal pain when it comes to RAM. The next (*10) generation was only marginally better in that respect, and then Lenovo finally got it right with the *20 series.

IME, sticking with PC8500 RAM seemed to minimize the problem in most cases.
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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#6 Post by TPFanatic » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:56 pm

Is the W500 running the latest BIOS?
lenovo T61 T7500, SXGA+, 8GB
lenovo T430 i5 3320m, HD+, 8GB
lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
lenovo X201 i5 520m, WXGA, 4GB
lenovo T520 i7 2760QM, FHD, 8GB



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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#7 Post by thinkpadcollection » Thu Dec 28, 2017 1:34 pm

Yes replace the pair with matched pair from ebay, DDR3 1333 do work too due to 1066 MHz programming timing bins programmed in to modules. 1066 modules are rarer and expensive.

Elpida, Micron & crucial, hynix or samsung. Matched pair too, 2Rx8. One module of yours is marginal, no matter how it passes in other machine, I reject this.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#8 Post by DiagonalArg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:25 pm

@TPFanatic - On your advice, just updated the BIOS, thanks. Testing again and waiting on results.

@thinkpadcollection - I am using matched pairs: Micron, Samsung & Hynix. Have not tried Crucial or Elpida; but it sounds like you think one or all of those should work.

On the other hand, it sounds like others have had trouble. It's at least good to know it's probably not a problem specific to my W500.

I'm looking at eBay. Any thoughts on whether that Apple memory will work?

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#9 Post by DiagonalArg » Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:37 pm

Sadly, that W500 still freezes with the updated BIOS.... :cry:

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#10 Post by RealBlackStuff » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:04 am

Face it, you need slower RAM, like I said before!
Try this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/202164225750
Mac RAM also works in a Lenovo/Dell/HP etc.

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#11 Post by DiagonalArg » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:58 am

Ok, my resistance is buckling!

I didn't go for the Corsair, though. I've had bad luck with them before, and have read some others on this forum with complaints. It might not be real, but the words "Corsair", "RAM" and "problem" have become associated in my head. So, I went for Crucial.

(By the way, I went to the Crucial website, and when I fed their memory-finder tool "Lenovo Thinkpad W500", it wanted to sell me PC3-12800! Try it yourself.)

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#12 Post by thinkpadcollection » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:59 pm

PC3-12800 will work as long as the DDR3-1066 programming bin is there in the memory module. I have two in both T500 and T410 with these.

This is why I said go to ebay. Crucial website starting to run out of DDR3.

Elpida, Samsung, Hynix, Crucial or Micron all from ebay. DDR3-1333 is acceptable but DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) will work as long as they are these brands I mentioned only.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#13 Post by TPFanatic » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:35 pm

I never heard of this individual T/W500s being picky with RAM problem before so I am completely stumped...

I understand that of the PC3 8500s, 10600s, and 12800s RAM:

- All 2GB sticks work.
- Only 2rx8 4GB sticks work.

No PC3L (Low Voltage) 4GB will work because they are 1rx8.
lenovo T61 T7500, SXGA+, 8GB
lenovo T430 i5 3320m, HD+, 8GB
lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
lenovo X201 i5 520m, WXGA, 4GB
lenovo T520 i7 2760QM, FHD, 8GB



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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#14 Post by MikalE » Fri Dec 29, 2017 6:00 pm

I had the same trouble not too long ago. I finally took an 4 GB stick out of a T510 and paired it with the 4GB stick that was already in the T500. Booted right up and recognized it.

Truth be told i didn't even check to see what it was. I was just hoping it would boot, so I left it in and buttoned it up. !!! :lol:
T500 C2D 2055-BE9
T510 i5 4384-DV7
T510 i7 4349-A64
T520 i7 4242-4UU(CTO)


T520: i7-2760QM(2.40GHz),16GB, 500GB SSD/500GB 7200 RPM Drive, 15.6in 1600x900 LCD, 1GB NVIDIA, DVDRW, Smartcard reader, media card reader, FPR, Win10 Pro64, whitelist BIOS, Ultimate-N 6300 AGN, German KB, Bluetooth 4.0.

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#15 Post by DiagonalArg » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:10 am

@thinkpadcollection -
PC3-12800 will work as long as the DDR3-1066 programming bin is there in the memory module. I have two in both T500 and T410 with these.

This is why I said go to ebay. Crucial website starting to run out of DDR3.

Elpida, Samsung, Hynix, Crucial or Micron all from ebay. DDR3-1333 is acceptable but DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) will work as long as they are these brands I mentioned only.
Could you clarify this a bit for me? Maybe with some specific memory codes/part numbers? What does it mean when you say "as long as the DDR3-1066 programming bin is there in the memory module"? How would I know whether it is?

The way things are <<appearing>> to me right now, after having gone through all the memory I have, is that Micron 1333Mhz is simply not working. I have some Samsung that seems to, but only in the T500's, not the W500. (They all appear to work when I run an OS, it's Memtest86+ that locks up.) I also have the Hynix 1333Mhz which are not working.

I have a Micron 4GB PC3L-12800S-11-11-B2 (MT8KTF51264HZ-1G6E1), which definitely does not work in my 500 series machines, but as @tpfanatic points out, those low voltage modules are 1Rx8.

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#16 Post by N33dF0rSp33dFan » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:13 pm

I have no problem with 2x 4GB Micron MT16JSF51264HZ-1G4D1, PC3-10600S-9-10-FP on my W500. I installed them Thursday and I found no issues whatsoever. I ran a memtest86+ on them upon arrival and everything checked out fine.
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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#17 Post by thinkpadcollection » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:48 pm

DiagonalArg wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:10 am
@thinkpadcollection -
PC3-12800 will work as long as the DDR3-1066 programming bin is there in the memory module. I have two in both T500 and T410 with these.

This is why I said go to ebay. Crucial website starting to run out of DDR3.

Elpida, Samsung, Hynix, Crucial or Micron all from ebay. DDR3-1333 is acceptable but DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800) will work as long as they are these brands I mentioned only.
Could you clarify this a bit for me? Maybe with some specific memory codes/part numbers? What does it mean when you say "as long as the DDR3-1066 programming bin is there in the memory module"? How would I know whether it is?

The way things are <<appearing>> to me right now, after having gone through all the memory I have, is that Micron 1333Mhz is simply not working. I have some Samsung that seems to, but only in the T500's, not the W500. (They all appear to work when I run an OS, it's Memtest86+ that locks up.) I also have the Hynix 1333Mhz which are not working.

I have a Micron 4GB PC3L-12800S-11-11-B2 (MT8KTF51264HZ-1G6E1), which definitely does not work in my 500 series machines, but as @tpfanatic points out, those low voltage modules are 1Rx8.
Like I said about SPD programmed into true OEM is properly done in my experience compared to third party which is are not OEM. They typically have 4 speed bins columns starting from 800 thru 1333 range for DDR3-1333 OEM modules, and with DDR3-1600 is usually 800 thru 1600 bins. If you see DDR3L or PC3L they are 1.35V, which you have to find is 1.5V which has no L (means Low voltage).

Just the ebay search will do, all you do is look for this in the ebay auction is: 2Rx8, photo shows 8 chips on one side of module will be 16 chips total per module, OEM names only like Elpida, Samsung, Hynix, Crucial or Micron, 8GB 2x4GB. Thus ebay search looks like this:

8GB 2x4GB "DDR3-1333" or "PC3-10600" Micron (change the OEM name for other Elpida, Samsung, Hynix, Crucial or Micron).

I'll pull up a search and show you a example to look for:

Search string: 8GB 2x4GB DDR3-1333 Micron:
Search result link:
https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_sop=15& ... 5573.m1684

EDITED:
One of this links from this search list:
https://www.ebay.ca/itm/For-Micron-8GB- ... SwJ3VZea2F

PS: if the auction title says hynix but the memory module is not branded with OEM name even it does have hynix label and hynix memory chips on one module (correct) but Ramaxel labels with elpida chips in the auction photo (examine!) do not buy like this since this is third-party brand by Ramaxel then this is not right idea to purchase.

https://www.ebay.ca/itm/12GB-3x4GB-Desk ... SwMz5aJJfb

Does that helps?

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#18 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:48 am

A better eBay search would be: 8gb 2rx8 (pc3-8500,ddr3-1066) (laptop,sodimm,so-dimm,204-pin) (elpida,samsung,hynix,crucial,micron) -1gb -2gb
And rather search for PC3-8500.
And search on eBay.com rather than eBay.ca

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#19 Post by DiagonalArg » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:12 am

@N33dF0rSp33dFan -
I have no problem with 2x 4GB Micron MT16JSF51264HZ-1G4D1, PC3-10600S-9-10-FP on my W500. [...]. I ran a memtest86+ on them [...] and everything checked out fine.
Alright, well now I am totally at a loss. And I'm using two different copies of memtest86+, so it's not that my copy is damaged. Taking the advice of @thinkpadcollection, I pulled out some dual rank 1600Mhz modules from my T520. I also found one 2GB stick of 1060Mhz:

1600Mhz: Hynix 4GB 2Rx8 PC3-128000S-11-12-F3, HMT341S6EFR8C-PB NO AA 1337 A
1333Mhz: Various Micron, Hynix & Samsung. Model#'s in previous posts.
1060Mhz: Samsung 2GB 2Rx8 PC3-8500S-07-10-F2, M471B5673EH1-CF8 0911

Here are the specs/memtest results (All Core 2 Duo, Integrated Graphics):

T500 - 2242-CTO, L3B5066 (09/04) - P8400 @2.26Ghz - runs on 1060, 1333 & 1600 (back room)
T500 - 2242-CTO, R8HDN87 (09/08) - P8400 @2.26Ghz - runs on 1060, freezes on all 1333 & on 1600
W500 - 4061-A51, L3ACN4T (08/12) - T9600 @2.80Ghz - freezes on 1060, all 1333 & on 1600

WTH?? :eek: Particularly on the W500, which was a hardly used machine. I mean, it's pristine. Later, I'll see if there's a way to look up the FRU's of the planars for those two T500's and see if they're the same.

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#20 Post by thinkpadcollection » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:22 am

Inconsistent errors on different T500/W500 memtest results does not make sense, and that is right there are many memtest version and they may be a reason. When a computer find a correct frequency bin in the SPD will be used for T500/W500 will be *1066* from any memory sticks that are 1333 or 1600 if used besides the 1066 memory modules. Was this tested with one module too, not in pairs?

May be the memory contacts, I usually fix this with small of piece of folded ripped from paper. Natually anti-static and rub this folded piece on the memory module contacts (both sides). No need to worry about the notebook's memory socket.

I can borrow friend's T500 and see what I get with 2 pairs of memory modules (both pairs are matched sets) from two T410.

Check the SPD tabs details with CPU-Z too if computer can be booted up? One more thing, T500/W500 share same northbridge chipset, make sure the thermal pad is good for that chipset. Also cooling heatsink dust cleaned out, always take fan off the heatsink by cutting the foil tape and gently bend tabs aside to free the fan. Then secure the fan with any tape over the cut foil and tabs bent over again. Peeled metal foil tape cannot be reused, that's the reason to cut them in two in place.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues. SPD Data.

#21 Post by DiagonalArg » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:03 am

So here's an interesting bit of information, provoked by @thinkpadcollection's suggesting I check the SPD data. Using the T500 that works with all three speeds of memory (1060, 1333 and 1600Mhz), I booted ubuntu and installed i2c-tools. In every case, running decode-dimms only returns a result if I tell it to ignore a bad checksum (-c). For example, the 1600Mhz:

Code: Select all

Decoding EEPROM: /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/eeprom/2-0050
Guessing DIMM is in                             bank 1

---=== SPD EEPROM Information ===---
EEPROM Checksum of bytes 0-62                   Bad      **Notice it's checking 63 bytes**
                                                (found 0x40, calculated 0x93)
SPD Revision                                    Invalid
Fundamental Memory type                         Unknown (0xff)

---=== Manufacturing Information ===---
Manufacturer                                    Conexant (Rockwell)
Custom Manufacturer Data                        00 4B CF 10 00 00 19 ("?K?????")
Manufacturing Location Code                     0xB7
Part Number                                     '
Manufacturing Date                              0x0F00
Assembly Serial Number                          0xB30A32B3

Number of SDRAM DIMMs detected and decoded: 1
I tried that 1600Mhz module in in W500 and found something similar, though this time it reported on two dimms, even though I only installed one, and gives (2) different values for the bad checksum. Note that memtest86+ does freeze on this machine with this module:

Code: Select all

Decoding EEPROM: /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/eeprom/2-0050
Guessing DIMM is in                             bank 1

---=== SPD EEPROM Information ===---
EEPROM Checksum of bytes 0-62                   Bad      **Again, it's checking 63 bytes, but ...**
                                                (found 0x50, calculated 0xDA)
SPD Revision                                    Invalid
Fundamental Memory type                         Unknown (0xff)

---=== Manufacturing Information ===---
Manufacturer                                    Invalid
Custom Manufacturer Data                        24 00 4B CF 10 00 00 19 ("$?K?????")
Manufacturing Location Code                     0x16
Part Number                                     1
Manufacturing Date                              0x0F00
Assembly Serial Number                          0xD10A32D1


Decoding EEPROM: /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/eeprom/5-0050
Guessing DIMM is in                             bank 1

---=== SPD EEPROM Information ===---
EEPROM CRC of bytes 0-116                       Bad      **Here it's checking 117 bytes**
                                                (found 0xFFFF, calculated 0x4FE6)
# of bytes written to SDRAM EEPROM              64
Total number of bytes in EEPROM                 64
Fundamental Memory type                         Unknown (0xff)

---=== Manufacturing Information ===---
Manufacturer                                    Undefined
Part Number                                     Undefined

Number of SDRAM DIMMs detected and decoded: 2
On the other hand, when I put that same 1600Mhz module in my T520, I get a sensible result. One dimm with a proper checksum:

Code: Select all

Decoding EEPROM: /sys/bus/i2c/drivers/eeprom/21-0050
Guessing DIMM is in                             bank 1

---=== SPD EEPROM Information ===---
EEPROM CRC of bytes 0-116                       OK (0xD173)      **Here it's also checking 117 bytes***
# of bytes written to SDRAM EEPROM              176
Total number of bytes in EEPROM                 256
Fundamental Memory type                         DDR3 SDRAM
Module Type                                     SO-DIMM

---=== Memory Characteristics ===---
Fine time base                                  2.500 ps
Medium time base                                0.125 ns
Maximum module speed                            1600 MHz (PC3-12800)
Size                                            4096 MB
Banks x Rows x Columns x Bits                   8 x 15 x 10 x 64
Ranks                                           2
SDRAM Device Width                              8 bits
Bus Width Extension                             0 bits
tCL-tRCD-tRP-tRAS                               11-11-11-28
Supported CAS Latencies (tCL)                   11T, 10T, 9T, 8T, 7T, 6T, 5T

---=== Timing Parameters ===---
Minimum Write Recovery time (tWR)               15.000 ns
Minimum Row Active to Row Active Delay (tRRD)   6.000 ns
Minimum Active to Auto-Refresh Delay (tRC)      48.125 ns
Minimum Recovery Delay (tRFC)                   160.000 ns
Minimum Write to Read CMD Delay (tWTR)          7.500 ns
Minimum Read to Pre-charge CMD Delay (tRTP)     7.500 ns
Minimum Four Activate Window Delay (tFAW)       30.000 ns

---=== Optional Features ===---
Operable voltages                               1.5V
RZQ/6 supported?                                Yes
RZQ/7 supported?                                Yes
DLL-Off Mode supported?                         Yes
Operating temperature range                     0-95 degrees C
Refresh Rate in extended temp range             2X
Auto Self-Refresh?                              No
On-Die Thermal Sensor readout?                  No
Partial Array Self-Refresh?                     No
Thermal Sensor Accuracy                         Not implemented
SDRAM Device Type                               Standard Monolithic

---=== Physical Characteristics ===---
Module Height (mm)                              30
Module Thickness (mm)                           2 front, 2 back
Module Width (mm)                               67.6
Module Reference Card                           F

---=== Manufacturer Data ===---
Module Manufacturer                             SK Hynix (former Hyundai Electronics)
DRAM Manufacturer                               SK Hynix (former Hyundai Electronics)
Manufacturing Location Code                     0x01
Manufacturing Date                              2013-W32
Assembly Serial Number                          0x1081FDE9
Part Number                                     HMT351S6EFR8C-PB
Revision Code                                   0x4E30

Number of SDRAM DIMMs detected and decoded: 1
I can now confirm that metest86 (no "+") v4.3.7 (their last BIOS version) also freezes the W500 with 1600Mhz memory on the same test, [Modulo 20, Random Pattern] (in this case, #9). On the other hand, a user space program called "memtester" and which runs under linux, but which only tests free memory, doesn't appear to be having any trouble at all on that same machine.

(@thinkpadcollection - Thanks on the other advice. I have tested with single modules, yes; and always in the lower socket. I have cleaned the dimm contacts, though in my case, with an eraser. Also, I am using only one memtest86+ version, 5.01, though more than one copy. For BIOS machines, the most advanced memtest is that one, though it forked from mtest86 around v.3.0. For UEFI, memtest86 (no "+") has a version 7.4.)

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Re: W500 Memory? Issues.

#22 Post by thinkpadcollection » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:15 pm

I use CPU-Z and it works very well for this and detailed. Requires windows running. You are not only one with i2C readout in linux, same problem with SPDtool in windows like this.

Memtest may be too new based on kernel as well. See if you can use a older one? Will these T/W500 boot and run any of the memory in windows and linux with no problem? I prefer cpu-z. I did have SPDtool and this is for windows, Not all computers allows direct SPD read out with certain utilities, I get blank or cannot find any on few certain computers too. I usually can with any computers that does and can modify the SPD as I had to on a ASUS P5K to repair mis-programmed SPD on 4x 2GB modules in order to work properly on OEM computers like Dell, Lenovo and HP from a known good 2GB module. Yet I cannot read SPD via SPDtool but can do any computers with CPU-Z for memory and SPD tabs on any HP and Dell, IBM/Lenovo computers.

Cheers, thinkpadcollection

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