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W700 Reliability

W500/510/520 and W700/710 series specific matters only
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taichi
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Re: W700 Reliability

#31 Post by taichi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:52 pm

Thanks for the response. So the Core i7-640M is taking a step back, performance-wise...as in game?

There are no other patchable CPU options?

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Re: W700 Reliability

#32 Post by taichi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 3:10 pm

wujstefan wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 1:58 pm
Your system will work perfectly fine for couple of extra years. It's still very future-proof.

However, it has flaws (color distortion at the edges, poor backlit keyboard), but it is definitely the best system with 1200 horizontal lines available, and there is no argue. I like my 8770w better, but this is like getting used. I need to make some comparison in the non-tp thread in the nearest future :)
So what's the best screen (IPS non PWM) on a 16 x 9 laptop...hopefully an HP with a Trackpoint?

The Trackpoint on the HP is inferior to IBM/Lenovo's, but replacing the HP rubber tip with an IBM is supposed to help a little bit. Have you tried this?

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Re: W700 Reliability

#33 Post by TPFanatic » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:48 pm

If HP still uses Synaptics I see no reason you cannot use Thinkpad Ultranav drivers on the HPs, when we can previously use HP Synaptics drivers on Thinkpads.
lenovo T61 T7500, SXGA+, 8GB
lenovo T410s i5 520m, WXGA+, 4GB
lenovo T430 i5 3320m, FHD, 8GB
lenovo T500 P9700, WUXGA, 8GB
lenovo T520 i7 2760QM, FHD, 8GB



Enable 2 finger scroll on any Synaptics touchpads with registry: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=122612

taichi
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Re: W700 Reliability

#34 Post by taichi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:02 pm

From what I know it's not the driver but the mechanism itself. Apparently Lenovo had (has) access to the best Trackpoint hardware due to an exclusive agreement. Other iterations of Trackpoint are somewhat lesser in quality.

The Hp's version is heavier in action, and its associated buttons more awkward in use.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#35 Post by Screamer » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:06 pm

taichi wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 2:52 pm
Thanks for the response. So the Core i7-640M is taking a step back, performance-wise...as in game?

There are no other patchable CPU options?
Yes, but in general tasks that do not involve gaming will not suffer a noticeable perfomance drop. Most games, nowadays utilize 4 cores instead of 2 cores back then.

I am afraid so. If I had seen a processor that was a quad-core and had the patches for it, I would have told you sooner.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#36 Post by taichi » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:13 pm

Apparently it's possible to install a six core CPU on this machine, based on what I read today on a different forum.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#37 Post by Screamer » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:41 pm

If you are talking about the 8740W, it is not possible. The 8740W uses Socket G1/Socket rPGA988A, and the six-core processors of the same generation were only available for LGA1366. What that forum was talking about was most likely referring to a Clevo D900F that utilized LGA1366 to accept a six-core processor.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#38 Post by wujstefan » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:42 am

It booted fine, HOWEVER I needed to remove video drivers first. Got a BSOD on boot first, but this may be due to the fact both my T60p and 8740w are ATI-loaded.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

taichi
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Re: W700 Reliability

#39 Post by taichi » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:02 am

Very cool. So the T60P and 8740W both have ATI GPUs, but wildly incompatible drivers? So you loaded the appropriate 8740W video driver, and everything seems normal so far?

You imaged rather than cloned?

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Re: W700 Reliability

#40 Post by wujstefan » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:55 pm

Yup, everything worked out-of-the-box; there were some driver issues but I was able to buut - so able to recover all the data as well.

GPUs are that different, but removing ATI drivers did the trick.

I have reimaged the system.

Out of the box: why don't you actually just reinstall the system? It's the data you want to recover?
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

taichi
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Re: W700 Reliability

#41 Post by taichi » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:47 pm

Some old programs, the disks and installers for which are misplaced, would be lost.

Also not all Documents are placed in "Documents" but are in several locations. I have backed up most all of them, but it would be great to migrate to a different machine with everything the same.

What imaging program do you use? I have only cloned disks in the past...never imaged.

Once again, thanks for testing out the image/clone. That was quite generous of you, and should open the minds of some doubters.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#42 Post by taichi » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:41 am

A friend from another forum cited an article from early 2018 wherein Intel said that after they patch processors of the last 5 years, that they will work on and release patches for all processors going back an additional five years. So the processors for the 8740W may indeed get their patches.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#43 Post by Screamer » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:16 pm

This microcode update guidance file that was from my previous post mentions that only part of the Socket G1 processors got their patches, the others were marked as 'Stopped' which means they are not getting their patches.

If I were to use the official microcode update guidance file from 2 April 2018 for reference, this would mean that every quad-core Core i7 processor available for your 8740W would not be patched. Only the dual-core Core i3/i5/i7 processors would get their patches, as mentioned in the file.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#44 Post by dr_st » Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:14 am

taichi wrote:
Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:58 pm
My point was not that machines with older technology are less vulnerable, but rather that until they fix the problem, spending less on equipment make sense. Why buy several thousand dollars worth of computing equipment that is just as vulnerable?
Well, if you care not at all about raw processing power or modern features, and care a lot about esoteric vulnerabilities, then, yes, it makes sense.
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: W700 Reliability

#45 Post by wujstefan » Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:43 am

taichi wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:47 pm
Some old programs, the disks and installers for which are misplaced, would be lost.

Also not all Documents are placed in "Documents" but are in several locations. I have backed up most all of them, but it would be great to migrate to a different machine with everything the same.

What imaging program do you use? I have only cloned disks in the past...never imaged.

Once again, thanks for testing out the image/clone. That was quite generous of you, and should open the minds of some doubters.
Well wouldn't a simple fix of this machine be simply easier? T60/T60p boards are dirt cheap now :)
I used Symantec Ghost Solution software, but there are many others.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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Re: W700 Reliability

#46 Post by dr_st » Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:41 am

wujstefan wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:43 am
Well wouldn't a simple fix of this machine be simply easier? T60/T60p boards are dirt cheap now :)
Some people have a knack for avoiding the simplest solutions and finding creative explanations to why these solutions are not simple at all! :lol:
wujstefan wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:43 am
I used Symantec Ghost Solution software, but there are many others.
I used to use the old Ghost and hated it, Acronis was so much better in terms of features and compatibility (talking about 10+ years ago). I can only hope that the new Ghost is better than it used to be.
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

taichi
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Re: W700 Reliability

#47 Post by taichi » Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:45 am

dr_st wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:41 am
wujstefan wrote:
Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:43 am
Well wouldn't a simple fix of this machine be simply easier? T60/T60p boards are dirt cheap now :)
Some people have a knack for avoiding the simplest solutions and finding creative explanations to why these solutions are not simple at all! :lol:
Some people have a knack for not hearing other people's reasonong. In my case, the more I look at my 17 inch IPS screen and compare it to my 15 inchT60P Boe Hydis, the more I like the brightness, color, and extra real estate of the 17 inch.

Finding out that imaging works between the two machines has changed my perspective.

But I'm happy that I gave you a good laugh.



W

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Re: W700 Reliability

#48 Post by wujstefan » Tue Jun 26, 2018 1:43 am

Actually it's not like that - swapping board and getting the system back on its heels just to check&move data you still need comes cheap and easy :) Anyway, I've spent too much time in my life doing something others did not understand to laugh at anyone :)

I do understand your love to 17inchers - I've put down mine T601 to grab a 17". If you do not want to repair your system for any reason, disk imaging works.
And if you are going to get rid of the T60p, I'd be interested in byuing its remains and putting it back into service myself.

Gosh I just love those machines. My daily is a 8770w that has enormous amount of power and is close to having no weak points, but I still find myself smiling widely when handling my trusty R61i and T43 :)

EDIT: since you have the most praised DC2 panel: how big are the typical color distortions in the corners of your screen?
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

taichi
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Re: W700 Reliability

#49 Post by taichi » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:15 pm

Money is tight, I want to put it to good use, and I really have bad memories of taking electronics apart, even if 7 year olds love doing so.

About the DC2 screen, all I can tell you is that it's the best laptop screen I've seen.

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Re: W700 Reliability

#50 Post by wujstefan » Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:58 pm

taichi wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:15 pm
Money is tight, I want to put it to good use, and I really have bad memories of taking electronics apart, even if 7 year olds love doing so.
Well, 7 years old kids just don't care if they break anything ;) do not feel offended by any means, I just wanted to point that it's easy. I think T60/T61 are the easiest thinkpads to disassemble out of all I've been tinkering with.
taichi wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:15 pm
About the DC2 screen, all I can tell you is that it's the best laptop screen I've seen.
Well it has its pros and cons in my opinion. I'd close in "the best WUXGA screen I've ever seen" :) But, that's me :) I was wandering about color distortions because I was lucky to get one of those beuties with literally no color twist in the corners, and this is the first time I've seen it this way.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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Re: W700 Reliability

#51 Post by taichi » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:19 am

My screen seems pretty darn uniform to. me…no color distortion, and whites seem pretty white.

With regards to other screens, there are two considerations for me. First I don't believe that 4K is at all necessary and a screen of this size, and 16 x 10 seems more than just an aesthetic choice. 16 x 9 seems squashed to me, and as my primary use of computers is for writing, that additional vertical real estate is vital.

Besides 16 x 10 being close to the Golden Rectangle, there have been some studies based on real-world response to displays, showing that people gravitate to that ratio more when given a choice. In the studies we are not focusing on computer users who probably don't mind 16 x 9 when it's bundled with higher end features, such as more powerful CPUs and GPU's.

I know that 16 x 10 is far more relaxing for me, and for my eyes than any 16 x 9 screen. If I had a very large monitor…say 32 inches to 36 inches… I probably could live with it in higher resolution because there would be sufficient vertical real estate.

With regard to the 8740W itself, it's beautifully built, and solid as a rock. And now that I'm used to it, the pointing stick seems very accurate and comfortable/ The keyboard is not bad, and one thing I am considering is changing the backlit one for a regular one, as supposedly it has better feel.

But to reiterate, it's a beautiful screen

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Re: W700 Reliability

#52 Post by taichi » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:47 pm

If I remove the hard drive from my T60P, which has windows seven installed, is it possible to put it into a USB enclosure and connect it to the HP 8740W? A friend of mine told me that the HP will not be able to read any of the files due to some peculiarity of the ThinkPad file structure. Is this true?

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Re: W700 Reliability

#53 Post by dr_st » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:30 pm

Yes, you can connect it and read from/write to it, but not boot from it. No, what your friend said is not true.
Current: Thinkpad 25 (20K7), Yoga 14 (20FY), X220 4291-4BG, T410 2537-R46, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G
Collectibles: T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X32 (IPS Screen)
Retired: X61 7673-V2V, T60 1952-F76, A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

taichi
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Re: W700 Reliability

#54 Post by taichi » Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:43 pm

Thanks for the clarification. It really didn't make any sense to me, as all windows files are formatted the same. All that's important to me are my documents and other store media. And, as you say, I can write to it and use it as storage.

Any opinion on USB enclosures?

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Re: W700 Reliability

#55 Post by wujstefan » Fri Jul 27, 2018 4:30 am

I've got a simple NATEC USB3 enclosure running with 750gig Scorpio Blue inside, and am very happy with it. Cheap, working fine, even though abused heavily.
Dailies:
X201s - travel / garage
HP Elitebook 8770w (FHD IPS, SSD, Q4000M, 16Gb) - daily
Collectibles:
T43 (LED Flexview UXGA), Z60t, G41, R30, R50e, R61i
Under construction:
A31, R52p, T22, A22m, R40, T30, Z61m

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