Thinkpads Forum

Puppy wrote:

Troels wrote:That's the trick i fear HP is doing with their "Dreamcolor" displays - perhaps this is the same display Lenovo uses?

I guess so. We are being cheated.

HP says this is a true 24-bit display and my guess is Lenovo is using the same one. Must be an S-IPS or a sibling.

TorAtle wrote:HP says this is a true 24-bit display and my guess is Lenovo is using the same one. Must be an S-IPS or a sibling.

If it is "true" like "dynamic contrast" or well-known "PMPO" parameter for audio devices I wouldn't be suprised. The meaning of words is changing when the business comes into play ...

Here is a story on the W700... looks really good.

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/101616 ... ch-laptop/

Puppy wrote:Yep, so called "8 bit TN" displays are just 6 bit ones with dithering technology. There are no true 8 bit TN panels. Don't mention it would not make sense because colors are getting very distorted with even small change of viewing angle anyway.

They could as well exist, but the gain in banding reduction might be too small to be worthwhile or noticeable.
The public is beginning to be aware of 6 bit and 8 bit terms and LCDs, so they probably will start a "race" on bitdepth soon regardless of if it's worthwhile. It's at that point one can say specs don't tell anything about perception.

There is still one thing I don't get it. Other lcd panel technologies are not that more expensive than horribe TN ones. Currently I think that consumer S-PVA or S-IPS panel might be two or three times more expensive than TN one.

Not sure, but if had to design a well selling laptop, i'd be glad that if i can save $2 on a component that is used in every laptop, i'd rather save that and choose the cheaper alternative. This could mean millions $ earned in the end. In the real world, very few complain about the lcd.

Puppy wrote:And W700 videos http://www.notebooks.com/2008/08/11/thi ... et-videos/

BTW, the third video is a good illustration of how (badly) the picture changes with the vertical viewing angle. (Note the screen changes at closing/opening the notebook.)

Really upclose look of W700 and X300 at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lenovophot ... 5/sizes/o/

nonny wrote:Really upclose look of W700 and X300 at http://www.flickr.com/photos/lenovophot ... 5/sizes/o/

Can anybody comment on why the keyboard (keys surfaces) texture looks so different on X300 and W700?

Unless you can get buy with the basic model with no options/changes, you will be looking at closer to 5K with warranty (gulp!).

agarza wrote:OMG!! A monster Thinkpad has been born.
I could expect a price of at least 2,700USD depending on the options you select. Interesting laptop.

Oops, didn't read completely the article, almost 3K for this beast. I will try to convince my employer to buy me one of these laptops. With the excuse that we draw a lot of AutoCad drawings.

W700's battery life is listed as 1.8 hours, so I'd expect around 1 hour of battery life. Definitely not the laptop to move around...

Well, that could be a deal breaker. I assumed it would be bad, but well under 2 hours probably makes it unusable for me. It's been at least 10 years since I've had a laptop with less than 2 or 3 hours of battery life, especially on something like a 9 cell. Not sure how it could be any better given the power use of the processor, discrete graphics and that huge bright display, but you have to be able to use a computer for at least a reasonable amount of time without plugging in. Why no 12 cell battery with this one??

morgandog wrote:Why no 12 cell battery with this one??

It already weights ~8 lbs ... A 12 cell battery would make it even heavier.

Disclaimer: All my opinion and nothing more....

It looks like the W700 has its niche, trying to steal those away from Macs in the graphics world and maybe even some gamers.

However, as a power user (developer), I think that the W500 might be better suited for the "mainstream" higher end power users, especially those which are on the move all of the time.

Some thoughts that I have concerning the W700:

- Really big - does Tumi make bags big enough for this thing?
- Can you fit it under an airline seat or in a seatback pocket?
- How about the battery life, seems to suck the power at an enormous rate
- Can you get it with out the pen "thingy"
- It would take time getting used to the off center keyboard
- Why no higher resolution (greater than WUXGA) for a monster screen? WUXGA already looks alright on a 15.4
- Price

Although it is nice that she has all top line components and options. 5 USB ports is really good, better than the W500. I also like the idea of dual drives, but why not offer the Hitatchi 320 GB 7200 RPM drives as an option?

From a traveling consultants point of view, the W500 is going to have to be my choice in the W series, basically all the same high end components (who really needs 1GB video if you have 512mb?) with a much better form factor and reasonable price for all of the bells and whistles. Heck, I might even have a reasonable chance of getting it open far enough on a plane to actually use it.

I'm glad I bought the W500, I think it is the best thing out there for those that must travel.

mdjtlj wrote:- Can you get it with out the pen "thingy"

Apparently so - from the Customize options on lenovo.com:

Pointing Device
Ultranav + FPR [New]

Ultranav + FPR + Pantone Color Sensor [add $70.00] [New]

Ultranav + FPR + Pantone Color Sensor + WACOM Digitizer [add $150.00] [New]

mdjtlj wrote: - Can you fit it under an airline seat or in a seatback pocket?

As long as you sit in business or first class, this shouldn't be a problem.

I'm glad I bought the W500, I think it is the best thing out there for those that must travel.

Of course. The W700 is a 17" luggable. If you want to travel, and especially do work while travelling, it is not the laptop for you.

gator wrote:

morgandog wrote:Why no 12 cell battery with this one??

It already weights ~8 lbs ... A 12 cell battery would make it even heavier.

Yes, but if you buy this huge computer you are already committed to dealing with a giant computer, so weight savings is not your priority. I would buy this to be my every day home use system (no longer have space for a desktop at home) and buy something like an x300 to travel with. I don't see many people buying a W700 as a travel system.

morgandog wrote:

gator wrote: It already weights ~8 lbs ... A 12 cell battery would make it even heavier.

Yes, but if you buy this huge computer you are already committed to dealing with a giant computer, so weight savings is not your priority. I would buy this to be my every day home use system (no longer have space for a desktop at home) and buy something like an x300 to travel with. I don't see many people buying a W700 as a travel system.

Yeah, that's why I would buy a nice full featured desktop instead.

lophiomys wrote:

morgandog wrote: Yes, but if you buy this huge computer you are already committed to dealing with a giant computer, so weight savings is not your priority. I would buy this to be my every day home use system (no longer have space for a desktop at home) and buy something like an x300 to travel with. I don't see many people buying a W700 as a travel system.

Yeah, that's why I would buy a nice full featured desktop instead.

I agree, but many people, like me, don't have a place for a desktop at home any longer (thanks to a tiny English house), and I need to be able to move around the house with a system depending on where I can work. In my office I have a nice 8 CPU system with a couple of huge screens, so it is confining to work on a small laptop. So for someone like me, the W700 is attractive since it is closer to a desktop experience in a laptop package.

That said, I work with a lot of people that, for some bizarre reason, work in their office on a tiny laptop. I don't see why anyone would use a laptop if they could be working on a decent desktop...

I agree, but many people, like me, don't have a place for a desktop at home any longer (thanks to a tiny English house), and I need to be able to move around the house with a system depending on where I can work.

Troels wrote:The public is beginning to be aware of 6 bit and 8 bit terms and LCDs, so they probably will start a "race" on bitdepth soon regardless of if it's worthwhile.

Matt Kohut has confirmed in the blog http://lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=153 (posting no. 32) that the panel is 6 bit and not IPS technology. So it must be just "better" TN with all its problems.

That's a shame. Well at least we still have HP 8730w and Dell Precision M4400 and M6400 to look forward to. I'm not dismissing the W700 totally though, let's wait for the first reviews.

I bet the HP DreamColor display is the same trick. So still no other option than refubrished R50/R51/T4x/T60 to get decent display.

Maybe, but did you notice that Matt in the blog said that he had seen the RGBLED screens which looked "quite nice"? The ones they wouldn't use because they were available from just one supplier...

HP clearly states "WUXGA RGB LED WVA", which to me sounds a lot like a non-TN screen...

Edit: the DreamColor upgrade is also reassuringly expensive

The WVA acronym is used for a long time by HP for WSXGA+ and more resolution displays. These panels were a bit better quality in terms on viewing angles but still TN. RGB LED backlight can not justify the TN techology problems at all. It improves color gamut but rest of parameters remains poor. It is just marketing fluff. Side-by-side comparison with former ThinkPad's flexview displays would be the definitive answer I hope there will be owners of both T60p UXGA and W700 soon to make some pictures.

I've noticed that HP labelled the 15" SXGA+ and UXGA screens used in nc8000 and nw8000 as 24-bit and wide viewing angles. Are those regular TN screens too? If so then I agree with you it might only be marketing fluff.

TorAtle wrote:I've noticed that HP labelled the 15" SXGA+ and UXGA screens used in nc8000 and nw8000 as 24-bit and wide viewing angles. Are those regular TN screens too? If so then I agree with you it might only be marketing fluff.

Very likely. Detailed pictures or a dead pixel would confirm it for sure. Also notice that both HP and Lenovo keeps the lcd panel technology as top secret

A good tip is searching ebay for the replacement part numbers for the HP OEM LCDs for the nc8000.
From searching all over ebay and google, the SXGA+ in use, is the LG philips LP150E06 which is TN, and definitely not 24 bit, but 18, and no dithering either.

For the UXGA nw8000 i found it to be HSD150PU15 - at least one of them, which is made by Hannstar. A data sheet can be found here: http://www.gblcd.com/datacenter/hannstar/HSD150PU15.pdf

As it is written, it is 6 bit (i.e. total 18 bit), says wide-viewing angle, but it turns out that those angles aren't wide at all from 3.1. Everything in there suggests TN.

So everything suggests 18 bit total, and not 24 bit, and no dithering.

No surprise, eh ?

Nope... the only surprise i got was the amount of data sheets that webpage contains http://www.gblcd.com/datacenter . Even data sheets from LG and Samsung which they usually don't send you.

Since my wife would prefer that I get a notebook to replace my desktop, this one might satisfy my occasional gaming needs.

Right now, the HP 8730w is also a consideration. After release, that may be a different story...

oskidbear wrote:Since my wife would prefer that I get a notebook to replace my desktop, this one might satisfy my occasional gaming needs.

Hahaha... With the W700's price tag, I believe you really love your wife

Today, an even more pricey version is available for order, the quad core model, see here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=65956