Thinkpads Forum

Is anyone able to post photos of a w500 or w700's screen adjacent to a T60p's? I've got a T60p that I'd like to upgrade, but I'm not letting go of this gorgeous screen without good reason!

If you have a 15" T60p don't even look at the new machines...you'll be sorely disappointed with LCD quality...

Yup. Forgot to mention. 15-inch, 1600x1200. Had a 61p for about a week, but the screen was just awful.

W500/W700 are TN screens. They will look like a crap comparing to T60p IPS panel.

Puppy wrote:W500/W700 are TN screens. They will look like a crap comparing to T60p IPS panel.

What about the T61p 15.4 WS screens? Are they the same as the T60p screens?

Puppy wrote:W500/W700 are TN screens. They will look like a crap comparing to T60p IPS panel.

I've got a T60p, and love my UXGA, but isn't the W700 WSXGA+, which gives 1920x1200 (compared to the 1600x1200 of the T60p)?

And with the built in color profiling, I'd think that the color rendition would be superior to the T60p's? Please enlighten me.

Thanks!

The W700 indeed offers WUXGA, so more screen real estate.

However, a TN screen, no matter which color profiling is used, will not look as good as an IPS screen, ever.

There is W500 review on my favorite site http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Len ... 683.0.html with detailed display section. The display is just ordinary crap as expected and the W700 will look pretty much the same. T60p display http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2864 looks like a product coming from far future (which is actually from the past ).

Puppy wrote:W500/W700 are TN screens. They will look like a crap comparing to T60p IPS panel.

But I don't believe the T60p or the IPS screen is still available - the T60 is still on Lenovo's web page tho.

First Light wrote:

Puppy wrote:W500/W700 are TN screens. They will look like a crap comparing to T60p IPS panel.

But I don't believe the T60p or the IPS screen is still available - the T60 is still on Lenovo's web page tho.

Did they ever produce the IPS screens in 15.4 WS format or just 4:3?

Also, isn't my T42 15" 4:3 Flexview Screen the same IPS screen that you are talking about with regard to the T60p IPS panels?

This is a bummer. I use a T60p that I love. I sent a T61p back because I couldn't see anything on the screen. When the W-series was announced, I thought I would be able to upgrade my T60p. Now it looks like I'll have to wait for the next iteration of the Thinkpad, and see if they put screen quality as a higher priority for the next model. Maybe I shouldn't hold my breath...

StevenD wrote:Maybe I shouldn't hold my breath...

No, you shouldn't. My guess is that it would take several generations of laptops at least, before we start seeing better screens, and it may only happen when the entire LCD technology gets a major overhaul.

dr_st wrote:My guess is that it would take several generations of laptops at least, before we start seeing better screens

Which is absolutely ridiculous while better LCD technologies are available for several years and costs no more than extra 100$ All this mess is caused by stupid managers only.

I think Lenovo needs to start making their own screens. Then, they wouldn't have to worry about unavailability of 4:3 screens and S-IPS panels. They could put IPS displays in all Thinkpads as an option, and re-offer the 4:3 Thinkpads.

comptiger5000 wrote:I think Lenovo needs to start making their own screens. Then, they wouldn't have to worry about unavailability of 4:3 screens and S-IPS panels. They could put IPS displays in all Thinkpads as an option, and re-offer the 4:3 Thinkpads.

This is as much wishful thinking as asking that Lenovo started making their own processors.

eecon wrote:Did they ever produce the IPS screens in 15.4 WS format or just 4:3?

Also, isn't my T42 15" 4:3 Flexview Screen the same IPS screen that you are talking about with regard to the T60p IPS panels?

Hi,
Not in 15.4", but they did do 16:10 ratios.. i'll get back to this after the reply to your second question:

The T42 15" SXGA+ used Idtech IPS panels, which is not the same as the AFFS panels (from hydis) of the T60p 15" UXGA, the viewing angles has been improved, especially when looking from the right hand side at a 88-90 degree angle. Also the color gamut has been changed a bit to make a bit deeper reds. But, this is not like going from a TN to IPS, the AFFS and IPS both have their pros and cons agains each other.

An UXGA for the T60ps offered sRGB remapped profile, which means that the color gamut of the LCD completely followed that of the sRGB curve but not as wide.
Hydis made/make (not sure) them in 12.1 and 13.3 Wide-screen too, using AFFS technology (which is just some sort of improved ips)

comptiger5000 wrote:I think Lenovo needs to start making their own screens.

No need to. Lenovo needs to listen us. If they paid display manufacturers to get real display, they would get it. It is not rocket science.

Anyone knows what is the lowest volume of LCD panels you can get from serious manufacturer ? Maybe we could find an investor for such project. The good thing there is high probability that Lenovo will continue to offer the horrible trash and it won't improve in future. There are still people looking for a decent notebook display. The only problem is warranty void after display replacement with another type.

Another option is to start petition to get decent displays back as an option (BTW there http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=64736 is already one for T43 HDD compatibility problems) and advertise on major notebook sites how good those old dispays were (or better said what crap companies sell today).

Puppy wrote:

comptiger5000 wrote:I think Lenovo needs to start making their own screens.

No need to. Lenovo needs to listen us.

Unfortunately, no. Our problem is exactly that Lenovo does not need to listen to us at all. We have been told already that they only need to listen to the procurement managers of their enterprise clients, and that apparently these people are happy with TN screens.

The 15" UXGA "Flexview" screen is still available from BOE-Hydis. It is called HV150UX1, and here is the detailed technical specification:
http://www.beck-oled-lcd-tft-display.de ... X1-101.pdf

You can buy a single one from several parts resellers, or if you want more you can get in touch with a distributor. For instance, http://www.sgidirect.com/ claims to have several thousand units in stock in Massachusetts.

But how can we build our own notebook around our preferred screen? This is 4:3, which I actually prefer, but which will not fit into any new Thinkpad---aside from the need for the right interface and inverter.

Giacomo wrote:Unfortunately, no. Our problem is exactly that Lenovo does not need to listen to us at all.

I've noticed ...

Giacomo wrote:But how can we build our own notebook around our preferred screen? This is 4:3, which I actually prefer, but which will not fit into any new Thinkpad---aside from the need for the right interface and inverter.

Would a T400 motherboard fit into T60p casing (if the display interface is compatible) ?

I wonder if anybody makes a WUXGA 15.4" IPS, S-IPS, or S-PVA notebook display? Haven't found one yet. I'll see how the color is on the WUXGA W500 when I get mine (ordered yesterday, estimated ship is 10/27)

comptiger5000 wrote:I wonder if anybody makes a WUXGA 15.4" IPS, S-IPS, or S-PVA notebook display?

Nope

And in addition to that I read somewhere that things will get worse in the future. At the moment we have 16:10 and in the future we will have 16:9 displays because it fits with the TV industry and panel manufacturer would like to standardize on one aspect ratio.

I don't mind the widescreen, manufacturers just need stop putting out crap displays. Hopefully once Hydis is restructured, they'll save us, even if it's an aftermarket solution.

freakwave wrote:And in addition to that I read somewhere that things will get worse in the future. At the moment we have 16:10 and in the future we will have 16:9 displays because it fits with the TV industry and panel manufacturer would like to standardize on one aspect ratio.

So the primary use of notebooks is to watch TV ? Do we need a keyboard or simple channel switch only after all ? Someone should have told those managers that there are people out of there using notebooks for work (surprisingly). If the market is driven by "enterprise clients" I'm wondering whether their primary use it to watch tv/movies

comptiger5000 wrote:Hopefully once Hydis is restructured, they'll save us, even if it's an aftermarket solution.

I don't think so. Who would sell these panels to ? Lenovo does not care, they care of maximizing profit and selling "acceptable" crap to not lose majority of customers. Remember that IBM was the only company having a courage to put decent display in notebooks (well, there was one Compaq and Asus model as well but it does not count now).

All this discussion seems focused on comparing the T60p 15" panel to the W500 panel. I'm considering moving from a T60p 14" SXGA+ to the W500. I can't seem to find the old TABOOK for my machine to see the panel specs--anybody have any idea how my panel compares to the W500 panel?

ThinkPad's 14" SXGA+ panels were always bad (but not that bad as X300/X301 ones) so 15" WUXGA in W500 might be a little bit better regarding contrast.

Puppy wrote:ThinkPad's 14" SXGA+ panels were always bad (but not that bad as X300/X301 ones) so 15" WUXGA in W500 might be a little bit better regarding contrast.

Thanks. Sounds like I wouldn't have a problem...I don't even run the 14" at max brightness (it's docked most of the time anyway).