Thinkpads Forum

Hi, I am looking to replace my t42 I've had for four great years with a w500.

I probably don't need all the power this machine provides, as I primarily use my laptop for basic functions like internet, Bittorrent, videos and gaming. But because I buy laptops so infrequently, I prefer to buy top performing machines that will last a long while. (thus I only consider Thinkpads. I also can't stand for touchpads, so I have little choice.)

I prefer the w500 to the t-series because it can display 1080p content, which I expect to be more available in the years ahead.

I don't care about the lack of blue-ray because I'm a streaming/BitTorrent guy anyway.

Not worried about storage because there's always external solutions.

I wonder if the (irreplaceable) graphics card will be able to play most games in say 3-4 years time.

I also wonder if I should add the Intel Turbo Boost now, or can I wait to get that later....(is it even worth it?)

Will wifi be obsolete in four years? WiMax?

Are there any other limitations I should be aware of that may arise in the next four-five years?

Thanks for your input!

Turbo memory is a waste, especially if you go for 4gb of RAM.

Lenovoate wrote:Hi, I am looking to replace my ... with a w500... I primarily use my laptop for basic functions like internet, Bittorrent, videos and gaming... I prefer to buy top performing machines that will last a long while. (thus I only consider Thinkpads... I prefer the w500 to the t-series because it can display 1080p content... I wonder if the (irreplaceable) graphics card will be able to play most games in say 3-4 years time... Intel Turbo Boost... is it even worth it?)... Will wifi be obsolete in four years? WiMax? Are there any other limitations I should be aware of that may arise in the next four-five years?

Regarding futureproofing:


DISPLAY - You may find that 1920x1200 resolution is not that usable at 15.4". So try before you buy. Also, the 1920x1200 display on the W500 is not very bright:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Len ... 683.0.html

And CCFL-backlit displays become dimmer as they age. And the dimmer the display, the harder it will be for your eyes to distinguish those higher-resolution pixels. So it may not be the greatest solution from a futureproofing standpoint.


GRAPHICS PROCESSOR - The GPU in the W500 is a mid-range solution, having a 3DMark06 score of 4,693 when accompanied by a T9400 processor, as shown in the following translated review:

"Lenovo ThinkPad W500 - 2 full Centrino" - from xntb extra notebook

That's about the same as the new MacBook Pros, about the same as the mid-range NVidia Quadro FX 2700M option of the W700, and about half the score of the Quadro FX 3700M option of the W700. Given Moore's law, reasonably-priced processing power doubles every two years.

Also, the GPU drivers for the W500 are not optimized for games. They're optimized for workstation apps like AutoCAD, Photoshop, etc. Although you may be able to run hacked gaming-optimized drivers.


WIFI VS. WIMAX - WiMAX is not designed to replace WiFi. WiFi is short-range, WiMAX is city-wide. Current WiMAX business models (i.e., for the current Baltimore WiMAX network) charge for each device you connect to the network. So you may want to keep your home WiFi network. WiMAX is like cable in that nearby users share bandwidth, so expect the same trend of bandwidth-capping that you're currently seeing for cable internet. I have a section on my web page on adding your own internal WiMAX card, so that it uses the high-performing antennas that are already in your ThinkPad's display housing (at least for the W700, see below).


TURBO MEMORY - The above translated article says Turbo Memory provides a significant performance boost. Lenovo says it's incompatible with their current RAID drivers, and that it slows down solid-state drives (SSDs). You should be able to disable it if you add an SSD to your computer. I have Turbo Memory, and plan to provide some performance test results on my web page (see below).



AN ALTERNATE CHOICE - If you want a ThinkPad having a 1920x1200 display, then you may want to consider the following W700 sold via retail outlets. I've seen it sold for only about $400 more than what Lenovo's site charges for a similarly-configured W500.

It has a 17" 1920x1200 display having a brightness rating of 400 nits, which is twice as bright as the W500's display, and 1/3 brighter than what you need to view the display in direct sunlight. Because it's larger and brighter, the resolution is much more usable.

It has dual 160GB 7200 RPM drives configured as a RAID-0. So you get a 320GB drive with sustained transfer rates of approx. 100MB/sec. That's significantly faster than what comes with the W500, so that's futureproofing.

Its NVidia Quadro FX 2700M/512MB graphics processor is on a card, so as prices later drop, you may be able to replace it with the W700's twice-as-fast Quadro FX 3700M/1GB option, although I have not researched that possibility.

Its CPU is socketed, and the W700's cooling system is designed to handle Intel's new quad-core mobile processor. That processor has roughly twice the computing power of the T9400. Note that you get the same cooling system & power supply with the W700 no matter what CPU/GPU you order. So that's futureproofing.

Here it is (if you do a search on Google's froogle.com, for instance, you'll find these at various prices):

ThinkPad W700 (Mfg Part No. 27584SU)
Intel Core 2 Duo T9600 2.8GHz 6MBL2
Windows Vista Business x64
17" WUXGA 1920x1200 400NIT display
Graphics Processor: nVIDIA Quadro FX 2700M 512MB
4GB DDR3 RAM
1.3 Megapixel Integrated Camera
2 x 160GB 7200 RPM configured as RAID-0
DVD-Writer
Smart Card reader + Express Card (34mm)
Intel WiFi Link 5300 AGN
9-cell battery
One-year depot warranty (you can call Lenovo to purchase an extension)

NOTE: The above configuration does NOT include the built-in color calibrator or graphics tablet.

But then again, you're not looking for the color calibrator or graphics tablet. You're looking for a futureproof ThinkPad with a usable 1920x1200 display, so maybe it's worth the extra $400 or so over a W500.


Anyway, if you want more info on W700s in general, see my ThinkPad W700 Resources page. It also contains a lot of information relevant to the W500:

http://www.buy-a-thon.com/reviews/W700-resources.htm

It lists/describes 12 reviews of the W700 (I'm about to add the 13th), compares it with competing laptops, has links to performance comparisions of the available Centrino 2 processors, has links to performance comparisons of virtually every current mobile GPU on the market, talks about adding the Intel WiMAX card yourself to the W700, along with the pros and cons of that, plus lots of other things. It's basically 160 pages of notes I took while researching my W700 purchase, condensed down to one page of links. I plan to add some tests of Turbo Memory to the page soon, so subscribe to the page's RSS feed to be notified when I add that or anything else!

Good luck!

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cheating is not tolerated..

Personally I doubt you can see a lot of difference between 1080p and 720p on a 15,4" display. The main reason of full HD resolution are large(r) display units, so I'd rather think whether and how to connect it to one. DisplayLink->DVI->HDMI perhaps or something.

BMN - the calibrator and tablet are OPTIONAL. They go into the palmrest if you spec them, but you can buy the machine without.

bmn wrote:I had a question about one thing, however... I thought the calibrator and tablet was built into the palmrest, how is it not included here?

Like comptiger5000 said, it's an option. In fact, I just double-checked to make sure, and the tabook says that type-model 2758-4SU has no Wacom tablet.

In general, if you find a pre-configured ThinkPad offered by a store, and want to see exactly what features it has, just check its entry in Lenovo's tabook (a.k.a. "Personal Systems Reference: Lenovo ThinkPad Notebooks"):

ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitu ... tabook.pdf

Zender wrote:Personally I doubt you can see a lot of difference between 1080p and 720p on a 15,4" display. The main reason of full HD resolution are large(r) display units, so I'd rather think whether and how to connect it to one. DisplayLink->DVI->HDMI perhaps or something.

It's all a matter of how far (or near) you are from your screen. If you are ten feet away, of course, you won't see a difference between 1080 and 720 on a 15" screen. But if you are fairly close (like one feet), the difference is obvious.

The above long post says that the W500 isn't optimized for games....

I'm considering a T400, T500 or W500. The T-series are great but after a review of the T400's discrete graphics, I'm considering a better GPU model. This is with the intent of gaming in the future. If the above comment i true then the W-series is no longer an option.

I ask b/c in the thread discussing the T400's poor performance, there were multiple suggestions to go for a W-series for gaming-capable thinkpads.

The two reasons the T400/T500 is a toss up is LED backlighting and the T400's slightly inferior discrete GPU...im wondering how much better the T500's is.

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks!

Honestly, I game on my W500. Performance isn't bad at all, and probably similar to the T500. I went for the W500 for the WUXGA screen.

Moore's Law states that the number of transistors doubles every eighteen months.

Graphics are too weak on current T500/W500. I'm waiting for quadcore and more impressive graphics.

nykobing06 wrote:The above long post says that the W500 isn't optimized for games....

I'm considering a T400, T500 or W500. The T-series are great but after a review of the T400's discrete graphics, I'm considering a better GPU model. This is with the intent of gaming in the future. If the above comment i true then the W-series is no longer an option.

I ask b/c in the thread discussing the T400's poor performance, there were multiple suggestions to go for a W-series for gaming-capable thinkpads.

The two reasons the T400/T500 is a toss up is LED backlighting and the T400's slightly inferior discrete GPU...im wondering how much better the T500's is.

Any and all help is appreciated. Thanks!

I've recently been doing research into the difference between t400' graphics and the t500.

The t500's card is WAY better. I can't remember where, but I found a chart comparing the performance of mobile graphics cards.

Sure enough the FireGl on the W-500 was about the same as the one on the T-500. But the T-400's performance was much worse.

It took me awhile to figure this out because I thought they had the same card until I looked real closely at Lenovo's website and saw that the t400 has an ATI 3470 and the t500 a 3650.

When I first read it I thought the difference between a 50 and a 70 wasn't much. Then I noticed the 3470 on the ATI was actually much worse because it was an earlier series.

comptiger5000 wrote:Honestly, I game on my W500. Performance isn't bad at all, and probably similar to the T500. I went for the W500 for the WUXGA screen.

How is the screen brightness. I've heard bad things, but I can't bear the thought of not viewing 1080p content in its native resolution.

Is it really dim?

The screen is plenty bright. I've yet to wish for brighter. Then again, I've yet to use it outdoors. In a well-lit room, it's just fine.

It will be completely obsolete within a year, when the new Nehalem core laptops ship....Unless my laptop was more than a year old, no way would I buy anything today. Nehalem is not an incremental upgrade..we're talking 40%-100% better performance, and lower power (32nm).

40-100% faster, you must be joking. Have you read the latest benchmarks of Nehalem processors? In some areas they are a bit faster (max 10%) and in some areas they are slower. Specifically in the multithreading area they are faster.

So if you are getting 20% with the next upgrade, that would be pretty good. Also many of these benchmarks already have been run with triple channel memory. It has to be be seen if we get3 sodimm slots in a notebook.

I think the biggest performance increase will come with the SSD drives. So if you want to your actual W500 to be fast, get a SSD. As soon as it is available I will test the solidata X1. I think this could be the next performance boost.

100% ack about SSDs for notebooks, but notebooks have traditionally had pitifully slow FSB and memory performance. Nehalem should give us a good boost in mobiles, probably a lot better than desktops saw.

Lenovoate wrote:Hi, I am looking to replace my t42 I've had for four great years with a w500.

Wait about year if you can .... you'll be glad you did

eecon wrote:Wait about year if you can .... you'll be glad you did

Can you elaborate on this? I'm sort of in the same boat, looking to move up from my 4-year-old t42p sometime in the near future. I've ruled out the T400 due to the inferior graphics card and am looking at either the t500 or the w500. Will there be better revisions of the T/W series in the next year?

Thanks

Schwaby wrote:Can you elaborate on this? I'm sort of in the same boat, looking to move up from my 4-year-old t42p sometime in the near future. I've ruled out the T400 due to the inferior graphics card and am looking at either the t500 or the w500. Will there be better revisions of the T/W series in the next year?

If the rumor that better gaming graphics does not pan-out in August for the T500/W500 series, at least prices will be down another 20% by then (just like all falling commodities prices).

If money is like no object and you do not care about gaming performance (i.e. no better than my T61p which scores 4400 on 3DMark06), then feel free to buy whenever you wish

eecon wrote:]If the rumor that better gaming graphics does not pan-out in August for the T500/W500 series, at least prices will be down another 20% by then (just like all falling commodities prices).

If money is like no object and you do not care about gaming performance (i.e. no better than my T61p which scores 4400 on 3DMark06), then feel free to buy whenever you wish

Okay thanks, I hadn't heard the rumor about those better graphics. I can afford to wait until later in the year if that's the case. This t42p I'm on is a champ