Thinkpads Forum

Hello Thinkpad Loyals,

I want to replace my desktop with a W500, so will this laptop match the performance of my desktop? I can't really understand the meaning of computer specs, so your expert help is very much valued.

Here's the specs of the desktop:
Processor
2.80 gigahertz Intel Pentium D
16 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache

Memory
2048 Megabytes Installed Memory ('DIMM' 512 MB X 4)

Hard drive
ST3160828AS [Hard drive] (160.00 GB) (7200rpm)

Display
NVIDIA GeForce 8600 GT (512MB)

Here's the specs for the W500 I'm considering:
Processor
Intel Core 2 Duo Processor P8400 (2.26GHz 1066MHz 3MBL2) 25W

Memory
2 GB PC3-8500 DDR3 SDRAM 1067MHz SODIMM Memory (2 DIMM)

Turbo Memory
Intel Turbo Memory 2GB (Is this gonna be useful with Windows 7, or is it just a waste of money?)

Hard drive
160 GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm

Display
ATI Mobility FireGL V5700 with 512MB VRAM

It would be helpful to know how your use your computer (what kind of applications you run).

Your desktop and the W500 specs are fairly similar. The faster CPU on the desktop is offset somewhat by the smaller cache.

If you bump up the memory on the W500 to 3 or 4 GB, The W500 will probably outperform your desktop. You save money by upgrading the memory yourself. This is very inexpensive and easy to do, even for a novice. Configure the W500 with minimal RAM, and then buy two 2GB PC3-8500 modules at some place liek NewEgg.com.

I don't know how much Turbo memory will help Windows 7. I've avoided it because it had some early problems and actually slowed computers down. A lot of the problems have been worked out, though. I would get it if I were you, and just not use it if it turns out that it's not useful with Windows 7.

The 2.26 Core 2 Duo is at least as fast, if not faster than the 2.8 Pentium D. The Pentium D was just a dual core P4. Turbo memory doesn't really have much benefit, so I'd put the money toward more RAM. My W500 with the 2.8 Core 2 Duo and 4gb of RAM really flies.

As for the graphics card, if you tend to game a lot, it may not come up to your expectations moving from a desktop nVidia 8600 with 512 RAM (probably also depends on what games, drivers etc.)

I disagree. A Desktop 8600 and the FireGL5700 are almost exactly the same speed. Expect 3DMark06 in the 3200-4200 range for both.

awolfe63 wrote:I disagree. A Desktop 8600 and the FireGL5700 are almost exactly the same speed. Expect 3DMark06 in the 3200-4200 range for both.

Hm, well, first off I didn´t state any performance differences for sure, secondly, 3DMark06 is a synthetic benchmark that is significantly dependent on the cpu with great factor to the L2 cache, thirdly, as you say, both cards will score in the range 3200-4200, but that´s still about 1000 points difference, so they may vary a lot from each other within that margin, fourthly, MobilityFireGL (which certainly yield different performance from its desktop version, but anyway...) uses Pro FireGL drivers which as a matter of fact reduce gaming performance for gain in reliability and long life span unlike the 8600GT which is gaming-orientated (certainly, one can always install modded drivers for the ATI card and by the same reasoning one can always overclock a desktop 8600GT which btw has quite some overclocking potential...) Hence I don´t think it´s really that simple to compare them just like this. My point was only that maybe it won´t be a bad idea for the OP to check out these things if he or she really tends to game. I think it´s well possible that some games will run better on the 5700 but others may very well run better on the 8600 and probably there will be some notable difference in the fps count; depending on the game even 5-10 fps difference can be noticeable. Also, I don´t remember to have said that the one card performs worse than the other I think they just perform differently, which is quite even more understandable as both are middle-class performers, but of different generation and hence have different underlying technology (take for example the memory).

Marin

When can we expect to see Windows 7 pre-configured with the W500? I'd like to buy now, but if Windows 7 is gonna be shipping with the W500 soon, I guess I could save money/headache and wait...

@RonS
Currently, I don't do much on my machine. Browsing, Web programming and occasional Photoshopping, but I'm planning on learning more graphic design and video editing. Will these specs allow me to do that comfortably?

Thank you for the RAM tip. I will definitely follow your advice and buy extra RAM from a 3rd party.

@comptiger
It's very good to know that the W500's processor is gonna be at least as fast as my desktop.

@Marin85 & awolfe63
I don't think I can consider myself to be a PC gamer, at all. I want this ATI graphics card for video editing and graphic design. It's good enough for that, right?

Thank you all for the valuable tips and advice!

The graphics card in the W500 is plenty good for video and graphics. Mine scores about 3900-3950 in 3dmark06. As a comparison, the Intel X4500HD integrated option in here scores about 850.

msafi wrote:When can we expect to see Windows 7 pre-configured with the W500? I'd like to buy now, but if Windows 7 is gonna be shipping with the W500 soon, I guess I could save money/headache and wait...

last i read, the projected release for win 7 was Q1 2010.   unless you plan to wait a year, i would buy now.   there are still a lot of bugs in windows 7 and microsoft isn't likely going to release it prematurely like they did with vista.

comptiger5000 wrote:The graphics card in the W500 is plenty good for video and graphics. Mine scores about 3900-3950 in 3dmark06. As a comparison, the Intel X4500HD integrated option in here scores about 850.

The W500's with the discrete graphics are currently no better than the older T61p units with comparable CPUs. That may change later this year as updates and improvements to the W500 line roll-out however.

FWIW, my 2.5MHz T9300 T61p with the Nvidia FX 570M 256mb GPU scores 4460 in 3DMark06 using WinXP (fully stock with no overclocking and set to let the application choose the 3D settings).

I found a great deal on eBay for a W500 with 2.8Ghz, 4GB of RAM, 2 GB Turbo Memory, 160 GB HDD with 7200 RPM and 512 MB video memory for $1600, so I bought it.

Sorry that I must share this negative feeling, but I'm really disappointed. The material and the build quality of this is no where near the IBM Thinkpad T40 that I bought 5 years ago. The palm-rest area where the track-pad is, feels like real cheap plastic. Even the lid cover doesn't have that sparkling, sandpaper-like finish that my T40 had. On top of that, the display is really dim and with WUXGA resolution, it seems....unusable... (I'm trying to find a solution to this problem at this thread)

Performance wise, it seems like a powerful machine.

After an IBM Thinkpad T40, X31 and X40, then Lenovo's Thinkpad X61 and now this W500, I think I'm over the Thinkpads. I'll be looking for another brand to attach myself to.

You are not the first one with such observations Regarding the WUXGA screen, I wouldn´t say it´s unusable, but I guess this is just a matter of personal preferences. If you use Vista (or Win 7), you can set up higher DPI, which should make it more usable to you. Unlike XP, Vista and Win 7 handle very well DPI changes (changing the DPI in XP can make some things look blurry or flawed). IMO, this option would be definitely better than adjusting a lower resolution than the native one.

I've not had the opportunity to compare a W500 physically against my T61, T61p and T42. I wonder if the W500 (and T500, etc) become the new VW of the 1930's (the People's Laptops) .... lacking build features and other nice but not necessary items to create a more affordable laptop for the Chinese masses by Lenovo. I thought I read an article or two in Barron's or the WSJ about how Lenovo management has been ordered by their Board of Directors (which is basically the Chinese government) to start focusing on product placement amonst Chinese citizens first and foremost ..... i.e. become more inner focused rather than export focused.

eecon wrote:<snip>I wonder if the W500 (and T500, etc) become the new VW of the 1930's (the People's Laptops) .... lacking build features and other nice but not necessary items to create a more affordable laptop for the Chinese masses by Lenovo. <snip>

As a long time, discerning IBM ThinkPad user, who is now using "Lenovo ThinkPads" I am here to testify that Lenovo has continued to provide high quality in their top of the line machines. Yes the "entry level" SL series ThinkPads, which are a new line, do not have the same quality as the more expensive models for obvious reasons. However I just purchased a new W500 workstation class ThinkPad for my daily work, and it's simply stellar. When opened up to expose the components inside, and placed next to my T43p and T60p with their innards displayed the quality of the W500 shines through. The fit and finish, as well as materials for the case and top are of very high quality. I continue to be very pleased with the ThinkPad lineup.

Cheers...

archer6 wrote: When opened up to expose the components inside, and placed next to my T43p and T60p with their innards displayed the quality of the W500 shines through.

How did you compare the "innards" of those models?

Thanks,

Marin

Marin85 wrote:How did you compare the "innards" of those models?

Nothing scientific of course, but rather a close inspection of placement, routing, space between components, etc. Close scrutiny of cooling system and other fundamentals. Over the last decade I've been inside enough ThinkPads to have some experience with the visual quality of components, materials and general layout.

Cheers...

Thanks for the clarification! That´s quite interesting because most people refer to the great build quality judging by the "exterior" (like keyboards, palmrests etc.), but often forget that the great longevity and sturdiness ThinkPads are well known for is to a high extent thanks to the inner design and components used.

If you can afford it, seriously consider a move up to a W700, don't really need the WACOM tablet or the retractable 10.6" screen unless you really need (or want them). Will not be disapointed

You can then cherry pick, your options.

I don't generate CAD dwgs, have staff who do that (all creative artsy Mac book types) but do final review / sign-off on them. Some personal use, limited and no gaming on this puppy ... have a separate custom built, overclocked toy for that.

This is what works well for me:

VISTA Ultimate w/ Media Centre - 64 bit
Intel Core 2 Duo T9400 @ 2.53 GHz
2 GB Memory
17" Screen WXGA + TFT
NVIDIA Quadro FX2700 512MB (may eventually upgrade)
250 GB HDD
3 YR Extended Warranty 9-5 on site plus bumper to bumper coverage

Had ordered a docking station - on backorder

Fingerprint reader - excellent performance. Webcam - no, keyboard illuminators - no. WiFi & bluetooth is cool, but don't really use it - disabled

Windows 7, will let others burn in on that - can't afford any downtime, use this to make my living off of.

Would like to max out the RAM but not at its current price for the higher end - why, more is always better.

One thing I did upon opening the box was immmediately dump alot of the pre-installled app's I'd never use, installed what is known to work & use daily and disabled much of the start-up like messaging, etc.... talk about perk up - wow.

Very pleased, rocks & still exploring why the video is jumpy / choppy on WMP but not other players.

I looked at everything in 15" and 17" and kept circling back to the W700. Retired finally my T30 ThinkPad, cleaned it up and is now an oversized MP3 player for one of my kids.

Hope this helps/HJJ

HomerJayJay wrote: <snip> I looked at everything in the 15" and 17" and kept circling back to the W700. <snip>

I too kept "circling back" and ended up with the W500 for portability as I carry it every day, it's my work machine. I am 100% happy.

However that said, I remain highly interested in the W700 and it's beautiful big display. I have two questions for you please.
1) how "odd or different" does it feel to work with the keyboard offset to the left (since it has the seperate number pad on the right).
2) How "bulky" does it feel to carry around? I"m fully aware of the size and weight but rather interested in _your real world experience_ with it.

Thanks for your resonse.
Cheers...

Thx for asking Archer 6

To your first query, honestly my first impression was a bit startling and not too sure what I just gotten myself into. With a 15 in screen its fairly well squared off H x W. Was not expecting a letterbox screen 9 in H x 17 in W. Didn`t take long to adapt to it, being 50-something, even with glasses need a bigger screen, font size, icon size, etc... just wait, age catches up with all of us.

There is a full keyboard on board - very impresive and almost the same size as a free-standing keyboard. For the odd occasion, will undock and use it as a portable - its really nice having full sized keys.... while here at the home office, still use an external keyboard & mouse, easier to lean back and work that way.

Also find that the laptop keyboard is up just a bit higher than the external keyboard, when docked expect it to raise the back portion up a bit. I use a MS USB keyboard where the keys along a curved access for ergonomics - the laptop is along a straight line.....next model perhaps. And will take use bit by bit - do use the ultranav pad a fair amount

To second question, at 3.4kilo or 8.3 lbs, its heavier than my previous laptop, definitely need a good shoulder bag and have noticed on the train a lot of folks using a padded rucksack or backpack. Myself being a fairly sizeable lad 6 ft 3 in and tip the scale over 250 lbs (well over 250 the Mrs say), the W700 still weighs less than a case of Arthur Guinness. Doesn`t bother me but need to be conscious of the increased size, especially with tight squeezes such as a turnstile

Neat feature, has a built in shock sensor, so if you`ve rough handled it - will let you know.....

Hope this answers your questions ......cheers

Thank You HomerJayJay, for the report on your new W700. I'm not particularly sensitive to the weight of a laptop, even though I carry it daily, it's largely just from the car to the office. Not as though I'm carrying it around a college campus. That screen is what draws me in, and the overall appeal of a 17" ThinkPad now that we finally have one available to us. I will give it some serious thought.

Cheers...

@archer6: Allow me to go slightly off-topic here Don´t you find your W500 quite heavy? I have a Z61p, which is 15.4'' WUXGA, and I could imagine that the W500 is only slightly lighter than my Z61p. After 2 years of thankfully using this machine I simply found it too heavy, too big, too bulky, mostly because of the wide from factor. If I was to choose between 15.4'' and 17'' laptop, keeping all 2 years in mind I would definitely go for the 17''. IMHO 15.4'' laptops are simply pointless because they are anyways heavy and bulky due to the wide form, so the relative increase ("elasticity") in weight and heaviness from 15.4'' laptop to a 17'' laptop is by far outweighed by the incredible specs gain (17'' WUXGA 400nit, high-end gpu and high-end cpu, RAID). Now, if my Z61p was 15'' model with 4:3 aspect ratio like those T60(p)´s, that would be whole other story, but unfortunately it is not so. In the current wide screen world I simply don´t see a place for 15.4'' laptops (I know I´m somewhat radical here).

Just my 0.02$

Marin

@ Marin... Actually I've carried a 15" 4x3 Txxp every weekday for years now, thus I'm used to the size and weight. Now in the case of the W500 the extra inch in width is offset by the 3/4" narrower footprint, so frankly I notice no difference as it fits in the same laptop case as my T60p. Unlike my Z60m which is so much thicker, the slim profile of the W500 makes it feel just like a T series. In addition, nothing smaller will do for work along with the fact that nothing is as nice to work with as a workstation class ThinkPad, thus I happily carry one. In fact I must say that even in lieu of the IPS display, I'm very impressed with my new W500.

That said, it's also why you see some smaller ThinkPads in my signature as I always carry one with me at all times. It's nice to have some variety when not working.

Cheers...

Thx Archer 6 - I am very impressed with the 17" display and hope you get an opportunity of some first hand experience before deciding.

Business-wise this is a 5 year investment and would hope like my T30, squeeze 7 years out of it before reinvesting.

Regards, HJJ