Thinkpads Forum

I'm a long-time Thinkpad user, and currently using a 15" T60p. I run multi-monitors on my T60p (5+ large monitors) so the ability to extend the video capability of the W510 is particularly important to me.

I received my W510 on Feb 4, 2010. It has the Core i7 820QM. I made notes during my unboxing and testing - notes on details I was curious about while patiently waiting for delivery. I'll likely expand this post later with pictures and more details. But I wanted to get my initial comments out there while the W510's are hitting the streets.

Initial Observations – Before Powerup

• Lid has considerable flex. More than any of the other six Thinkpads I just compared it to. It definitely flexes more than the 15.1” widescreen T61p which is the closest in size to the W510 that I have. Pressing on the lid does not distort colors on the screen.
• Battery - The 9-cell battery sticks out in an odd way as you can see in the following two pictures. The battery fits very snug and has almost no play. Behind the battery is a slot for a SIM card.
• Ultrabay - Previous Thinkpads had a UltraBay release button on the side of the unit. Then, a small tab popped out that, when pulled, removed the drive from the UltraBay. The W510 has a spring-loaded locking button underneath the unit that must be held back while you push on a sliding tab (also underneath) that ejects the drive from the bay. This means that you have to undock the W510 in order to remove the CD drive from the Ultrabay. This is not good. I think it’s a step backwards from previous Thinkpads.
• Ultrabay Compatibility - The Ultrabay on the W510 will NOT take the SATA hard drive caddy from the T6x line. Or CD drives, or anything else. I’m not happy about this.
• The DVD Multi Drive has FRU P/N 45N7465, Rev 101, and Manufactured Dec 2009. On the back is says HL Data Storage, Super Multi DVD Rewritter Model GT30N.
• Memory - I opened the memory cover and saw two empty SODIMM memory slots. There must be two more on the other side that I can’t see, because the W510 should have four slots. My unit came with 8GB of memory (2 modules* 4GB), and I added another two modules for a total of 16GB.
• Power Supply - The 135W power supply seems huge next to the T60’s 90W power supply. It looks twice as big. It runs mildly warm after several hours of testing.
  I tried plugging a 90W power supply from a T60p. It worked! But I first got a message (displayed by the BIOS upon power-up) that the power supply has a lower wattage, it will take longer to charge the battery, and performance will be adjusted to match available power.
• Powered USB - I attached the battery, plugged in the W510 and got a green light on the lid. Then, I plugged my iPhone into the yellow (supposedly) powered USB port on the back of the unit and saw no charge. I tried with two other USB devices – same result. However, after I booted and went through the initial setup, the USB now supplies power when shut off.
• Keyboard -The keyboard feels incredibly good, on par with previous T4x and T6x units. I wrote a post a while back that compared several keyboards; using the technique I show there, my W510’s keyboard would be an ALPS. My only nitpick is that the Enter and backspace keys make a lot more noise than the rest of the keys. The Function keys are slightly elevated. I’m not sure if I like the size and location of the Delete key… time will tell. There is almost no flex on the palm rests or anywhere else around the keyboard. It all feels very tight. After hours of use, the entire keyboard and surrounding area felt evenly room temperature or maybe just slightly cool.
• Trackpad - has a nice bumpy feel to it. It’s comfortable to use, but I still like the trackstick better. It's multitouch... for example, you can us two finger to scroll a web page.
• LEDs – On the outside of the system there are three LED’s: Color sensor calibration status, power, and sleep. On the inside are Wifi, Bluetooth/Wireless USB, and disk activity. The circular power button over the keyboard lights up when on, and there is an orange LED on the speaker mute button when muted. Ditto for the microphone mute button and caps lock.
• Build Quality - with the lid open, I can pick up the whole unit by one corner and there's no body flex. The display hinges are beefy and the lid has no play at all. I just grabbed a new T61p, opened it, closed it, and tried to flex it. Did the same on the W510 and they felt identical to me. This is a very solid machine.

Powering Up

• During initial setup, I was asked to try Norton 360 for 30 days, enroll my fingerprints, buy Office 2007, etc. I skipped through it all.
• After setup, the only bloatware on the desktop was a shortcut for a 60-day trial of Microsoft Office. This is one of the reasons I love Thinkpads.
• Screen: This unit has the 1920x1080 (FHD, 95% gamut) non-touchscreen model. Side-to-side viewing angle was excellent, almost on par with Flexview. The top-down viewing angle, however, was not as good. Full whites start to turn dark at about 15 degrees off vertical when the screen is pulled slightly shut. In the second picture, notice the lighthouse on the bottom left has a dark area: Overall, the display is very bright and the nicest I’ve seen besides the Flexview. It’s so bright that at full setting it starts to hurt my eyes in a dimly lit room. I bought a T61p that I shelved after one day of use because the screen was so horrible. I think that qualifies me as picky – and I like this screen. I ran Everest, which reported the Monitor ID as LEN40B2, Manufacturer B156HW01 V4
  Here are some pictures I took at various view angles album format: http://img31.imageshack.us/g/p1000541i.jpg/
• Sound – The speakers are underneath a grill on the left and right of the keyboard. If you look at just the right angle, you can see that there are two areas under the grill that are different and probably hold the speakers. I played the same song on the W510 and the T60p and the W510 is clearer, mostly because the speakers are on top rather than underneath like on the T60p. But the sound quality wasn’t great. I would rate the speakers as “adequate” for a laptop, which isn’t saying much. Lenovo missed out on an opportunity here.
• Fingerprint reader. When configured, the fingerprint reader has a little green LED on it to tell you it's active. Swiping your fingerprint both turns on the W510 and logs in to Windows. Very cool!

BIOS – noteworthy observations

• BIOS version is 1.09, dated January 20, 2010. Intel i7 Q 820, 1.73 GHz.
• There is a setup option in the BIOS that sets the charging mode for the powered USB port. The Selections are “Automatic”, “BlackBerry”, “iPod or iPhone”, and “Other USB devices”. This is interesting.
• The CPU page has settings for Multi-core processing, hyper-threading, virtualization, and Intel VT-d.
• While in the BIOS setup, the W510 got very hot. Perhaps because power management is disabled while in setup.

Device Manager

• Display adapter is listed as NVIDIA Quadro FX 880M
• DVD/CD-ROM is HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GT30M
• IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers
  • Intel 5 Series 6 Port SATA AHCI Controller
  • Ricoh PCIe Memory Stick Host Controller
• IEEE 1394 Bus host controllers
  • Ricoh 1394 OHCI Compliant Host Controller
• Imaging devices
  • Integrated Camera (properties indicate Ricoh)
• Network adapters
  • Intel 82577LM Gigabit Network Connection
  • Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN
• Ports
  • Intel Active Management Technology – SOL (COM4)
• Processors
  • (8 entries) Intel Core i7 CPU Q 820 @ 1.73GHz
• SD host adapters
  • SDA Standard Compliant SD Host Controller
• Sound, video, game controllers
  • Conextant 20585 SmartAudio HD
  • NVIDIA High Definition Audio
• Universal Serial Bus Controllers (redundant entries eliminated)
  • Generic USB Hub
  • Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset Family USB Enhanced Host Controller – 3B3C
  • NEC Electronics USB 3.0 Host Controller (and Root Hub)

Performance Benchmarks The internal hard drive controller is VERY fast, and USB 3.0 controller is three times the speed of the 2.0 controller. Maybe more, because my tests may be limited by my external device (external Brando 3.0 USB enclosure with a Samsung SSD) used for testing.

• Windows Experience Index (WEI)
  • Processor 7.0
  • Memory 7.3
  • Graphics 6.4
  • Gaming graphics 6.4
  • Primary hard disk 7.3 (Samsung SSD installed)
• Internal hard drive Seagate 320GB 7200.4 delivered with system
  • Avg 78.8 MB/sec, burst 138.5 MB/sec
• Internal hard drive Samsung SSD 256GB PM800
  • Avg 123.3 MB/sec, burst 174.0 MB/sec
• USB 3.0. Note: External drives plugged into the powered USB ports were not recognized until I entered the BIOS setup and set the charging mode for the powered USB to “Other USB Devices”
  • With USB 2.0 device – 31.4 MB/sec (several devices tested)
  • With USB 3.0 device – 95.5 MB/sec (SSD in Brando USB 3.0 enclosure)
• eSata
  • 78.5 MB/sec, 109 MB/sec burst (BlackX eSata hard drive dock)
  • The eSata is also a 4th USB port. You have to carefully insert the USB connector into the eSata port and maybe push a little harder than normal, but it does work.
• PCMark Vantage benchmark
  • 10427 PCMarks (default settings)
• 3DMARK06
  • 6395 3DMarks
  • SM 2.0 score 2571
  • SM 3.0 score 2395
  • CPU score 3087
  • Note: Both PCMark and 3DMark identify the GPU as “Generic VGA”
• Everest
  • Memory read 13311 MB/sec
  • Memory write 11164 MB/sec
  • Memory copy 13219 MB/sec
  • CPU Queen 15773
  • CPU PhotoWorxx 23016

Video Output

• DisplayPort
  • I hooked up a DisplayPort-to-DVI cable to the W510 and drove an external monitor at 1920x1200. The 30” monitor I was testing with goes to 2560x1600, but I can't drive beyond 1920x1200 without an active DisplayPort to Dual-Link DVI converter, which runs about $99. The converter's maximum output resolution is 2560x1600. So, I'm ordering a Matrox TripleHead2Go DP Edition to split the DisplayPort resolution to two 1920x1200 outputs. Using a Matrox DualHead2Go DP or TripleHead2Go DP is, I believe, the only way (currently) to get more than 2560x1600 resolution out of DisplayPort.
• VGA
  • Again, the highest resolution the W510 would let me select was 1920x1200 on VGA. This surprised me. I checked to “all modes” on the FX880 adapter, and it maxed out at 1920x1200. I stopped short of creating a custom resolution on the NVIDIA control panel. I’ll dig into this more a little later. For now, however, it appears that the W510 has fewer multi-monitor capabilities than the Thinkpad T6x series. I have a Series 3 Plus dock on order, and I'll know a lot more when it arrives.

Heat, etc.

• The W510’s fan is just slightly audible. It seems to be always on. It gets slightly louder under load. It slightly louder than the fan on my T60p, which was very quiet.
• The system is very well cooled. The only warm area is the memory access cover underneath the system. Sitting here typing this post, the exhaust vents are just barely warm and I can hear the fan only if I put my ear up to the vents. But, when put under load, the W510 heats up quickly and the fan kicks in.
• I’ve heard no humms, buzzing noises, or anything else out of place.
• The color sensor seems to work well. I used it and it worked as expected. It suggested a color profile that at first I thought wasn't good, but after spending time with it I really like it.

Overall, the W510 is a worthy member to the Thinkpad family. It is is the fastest computer I've ever owned, both in terms of CPU performance and I/O bandwidth. Build quality is on par with the T42p, T60p, and A21p, which I believe to be the highest quality notebooks I've known. The W510 may lose a few points for the flex on the lid, and the weird way the 9-cell battery sticks out the back, but that's about it. The screen aspect ratio (19:6) doesn't bother me as much as I though it would, but I would still take a 15" 4:3 screen in a heartbeat if it were offered. With its beautiful bright display, 4 memory slots, core i7 CPU and all the other features, I think this will quickly become my new main machine that will carry me for years.

Updated 2/6/10 to change comments about DisplayPort, fingerprint reader, add formatting, and add a final summary paragraph.
Updated again to fix typo on screen resolution.
Updated 2/15/2010 to correct error on eSata/USB port interoperability.

The T/R/Wx00 series didn't take the x60/61 series ultrabay adapters either. This isn't something new, the change from PATA to SATA was made the previous generation.

Thank you for the detailed description, Ron.

DisplayPort does support 2560x1600 natively. Check the cable and also try to define a custom resolution, as you mentioned.

Thanks for a great hands on review! The W510 sure seems like a killer thinkpad and one that I would like to own.
How do you like the 16/9 format ?
How is the standard windows fonts looking on the 15" fhd display ? Does a good contrast make up for the (supposedly) very small fonts ?

Congratulations with your new baby btw

Very interesting, thank you! You reported some speed scores that I don't know how to evaluate. Is there a place where I can get some context for them so I know how they compare with other systems?

Thanks for the write up. If this is you're initial comments, I can't wait to the full review.

you mentioned that vertical viewing angles aren't great. What about the workable "sweet spot" and black values?. Do you have to constantly adjust yourself to get the screen looking completely even in contrast and colors? This drawback drives me nuts when working on my T400s.

Also, who is the panel manufacturer? could you look it up with everest?

Congratulations on your new ThinkPad!
Thank you for your exemplary initial report. The level of detail is greatly appreciated. I truly look forward to your following installments.
.
Cheers...

zenit wrote:you mentioned that vertical viewing angles aren't great. What about the workable "sweet spot" and black values?. Do you have to constantly adjust yourself to get the screen looking completely even in contrast and colors? This drawback drives me nuts when working on my T400s.

Also, who is the panel manufacturer? could you look it up with everest?

I don't find myself adjusting angle at all. Tipping the screen forward seems more sensitive than tipping it back. But if there is a "sweet spot", it's pretty big. Again, the side-to-side is very good.

Everest reports the Monitor ID as LEN40B2, Manufacturer B156HW01 V4. I added this to the original post.

RonS wrote: Everest reports the Monitor ID as LEN40B2, Manufacturer B156HW01 V4

The manufacturer is AU Optronics

Nice write up...couple questions:

* Could you elaborate on how you drove the multiple monitors on your previous setup?
I'm trying to do something similar, have a W700 on order and plan to use the DVI &
Display ports, starting out. Only way I know to do this on my present setup(old Z61p)
is one on the VGA port and all of the others via USB adapters, which are not optimal,
but do work(kind of).

* I'd guess not likely, but has anyone been able to eyeball both a W510 & W500 to see
if there's any chance at all of using a 500 screen on a 510, so as to retain 1920x1200?

Thanks...

AMATX wrote: Could you elaborate on how you drove the multiple monitors on your previous setup?

I plan on putting up a video on this soon that shows the details. It will be in the T6x forum. If you don't see it by Monday night, pm me and I'll get you the info.

UPDATE: See this thread http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=84844
Also see this thread: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=85652

RonS wrote:Screen: This unit has the 1920x1200 (FHD)

You meant 1920x1080, right?

AMATX wrote:Nice write up...couple questions:

* Could you elaborate on how you drove the multiple monitors on your previous setup?

RonS has written many times about his amazing multiple-monitor setups, e.g. this thread. RonS, I look forward to seeing your awe-inspiring video, though photos would suffice. My main rig, a Dell GX280 desktop, drives three Dell 24" WUXGA LCDs (two of them in portrait mode) and has a fourth output for one more, but three is enough even for my ridiculous multitasking needs. I wonder how you use your four 30" LCDs. I doubt I would enjoy turning my head >70 degrees to either side so often!

would you mind taking and posting some pictures of the screen from wider viewing angles (both horizontal and vertical)?
would very much appreciate that!

Hello Ron,

I am very interested in the Pantone color calibration.

Is there anything like a calibration report? Color temperature before + after? DeltaE values of profiling? wow - i am so curious about...

Best, Walter

@ Ron - thanks for your detailed review, especially the panel number.

For the T510, T510i and the W510 the hardware maintenance manual lists just one source for the FHD LCD panel (for now):
FRU 42T0765. As yours is an AU Optronics B156HW01 V.4, I think we can safely assume that all non-touch FHD models shipped so far have this panel. LG has a similar panel, it will be interesting to see where/if that one turns up.

The panel retails at around €150, although IBM parts here in Europe mark it up to €470,77, without tax.
It seems to be the same or very similar to the one in the Asus G51VX-X1A.

From the parts website, I could also infer that the only FHD multitouch panel mentioned so far in the hardware maintenance manual is an AUO panel as well (13N7276 - LCD AUO). If you'd want to order that from parts, it's €1.005,61. Ouch.

I looked up the descriptions for the HD and HD+ panels used so far as well:
HD (four panels):
42T0761 LCD UAO
42T0650 LCD_15.6"
42T0741 LCD LGD
42T0749 LCD SEC (=Samsung)
So one from AUO (assuming that's a typo), one from LG, a Samsung, and an unspecified.

HD+ (two panels)
42T0763 LCD AUO
42T0743 LCD LGD
No surprises here, one from LG and one from AUO.

If someone can add any of the panel model numbers, please do.

Walter K wrote:Hello Ron,
I am very interested in the Pantone color calibration.
Is there anything like a calibration report? Color temperature before + after? DeltaE values of profiling? wow - i am so curious about...
Best, Walter

To run the color calibration app, you select All Programs -> XRite -> hueyPRO. Here are screenshots:





When you close the cover, it makes some blipping noises and the color calibration LED on the cover flashes a few times. After about 15 seconds, there are three solid beeps and the calibration LED stays lit solid.
On the third screen, the selections for Color Temperature are D50, D65 and D75. Gamma selections are 1.8, 2.2, and 2.4

zenit wrote:would you mind taking and posting some pictures of the screen from wider viewing angles (both horizontal and vertical)?
would very much appreciate that!

Here you go!

Whole album here:
http://img31.imageshack.us/g/p1000541i.jpg/

I also added this to the original post. Pay attention to the bottom left side of the lighthouse. As the screen tips forward, you can see bright white turn gray.

RonS wrote: [*]Screen: This unit has the 1920x1080 (FHD) non-touchscreen model. Side-to-side viewing angle was excellent, almost on par with Flexview.

What are the fonts sizes, icons, and other display elements like, as compared to the WUXGA's (or other hi res) of the past?
Are they tiny and difficult to read?
I'm very curious about the vertical dimension of the display, which would then give me an idea just how much the 16:9 format has reduced that measurement.
Your machine sounds ideal. The only challenge for me, are the questions I've asked above, as I have only to decide on which display to order. I'm leaning heavily towards the FHD you have. I have good vision, so unless the fixed font sizes of certain elements like menus etc are too tiny, then it would work for me just fine.
Your feedback on this is highly appreciated.
.
Cheers...

This should answer your questions:
http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

Plug in the size (diagonal) and the resolution and you'll get full information on the dimension.

In our case:

15.4", 1920x1200: 13.06" × 8.16" (33.17cm × 20.73cm) = 147.02 PPI
15.6", 1920x1080: 13.6" × 7.65" (34.54cm × 19.43cm) = 141.21 PPI

dr_st wrote:This should answer your questions:
http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

Plug in the size (diagonal) and the resolution and you'll get full information on the dimension.

In our case:

15.4", 1920x1200: 13.06" × 8.16" (33.17cm × 20.73cm) = 147.02 PPI
15.6", 1920x1080: 13.6" × 7.65" (34.54cm × 19.43cm) = 141.21 PPI

Thanks dr_st! The perfect solution
.
Cheers...
posted via BlackBerry

Thanks for a great overview!!

How would you describe the size and weight of this one compared to t42p and t60?

Nice writeup!

As for the LEDs, the color calibration indicator on the outside makes sense since you have to close the lid to do the calibration. The LED tells you when the calibration is finished.

The three LEDs on the inside are described in HMM as:
* WLAN, WWAN or WiMAX status (green: wireless feature is on, blinking: data is transmitted),
* Bluetooth or Wireless-USB status (green: feature is on, blinking: transmission),
* Device access (green: HDD data transmission)

So you do know when your WLAN/Bluetooth is on. Things get a bit complicated if you have WWAN.

What do you mean by oddly sticking out battery?

yak wrote:The three LEDs on the inside are described in HMM as:
* WLAN, WWAN or WiMAX status (green: wireless feature is on, blinking: data is transmitted),
* Bluetooth or Wireless-USB status (green: feature is on, blinking: transmission),
* Device access (green: HDD data transmission)

Good to know.. Thanks! I edited my original post to correct my mistake.

What do you mean by oddly sticking out battery?

Previous batteries had beveled edges that made a clean transition between the Thinkpad to the protruded part of the battery, and also covered most of the back edge. This made the battery seem less visually jarring. The W510's 9 cell has sharp angles and make it look odd. It also only occupies only about 60% of the back edge. It just looks strange to me.

san40k wrote:Thanks for a great overview!!

How would you describe the size and weight of this one compared to t42p and t60?

15" T60: 13.1" x 10.6" x 1.2-1.4" 6.4lbs w/6 cell battery

W510: 14.7" x 9.6" x 1.2-1.4" 6.5lbs w/9 cell battery

A typical 15" T60 does not weigh 6.4 lbs even with a 9-cell... Definitely not with a 6-cell.

AMATX wrote: Could you elaborate on how you drove the multiple monitors on your previous setup?

Here you go! http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?p=558114

Thanks for your post, very informative and helpful.

dr_st wrote:A typical 15" T60 does not weigh 6.4 lbs even with a 9-cell... Definitely not with a 6-cell.

Agreed, I was simply using the "quoted values" from the tabook, as a point of reference.

Could you run some quick test (with SuperPI for instance) what's the performance of connected 135W and 90W adapter? I'm fine with slow charging times, but don't want to have lower performance...
Thanks a lot