Thinkpads Forum

Rochefort wrote:You can download HERE the last Tabook which includes W 701'n ds

All of the 701 are there, actually. Thank you for the link.

Funny...I just sold my W700 (sans SSD, FX3700) on the same day the W701 was announced. So I'm ready for one of those crazy machines.

So I'm back on my T60p, and I must tell all of you who are still on the fence about Solid State Drives, just how HUGE a difference the SSD makes! It just struck me after preparing an emergency "just-in-case" installation of Windows 7 x64 on a hard drive the other day, before I packed up my W700 and exchanged it for some serious Benjamin's. Windows 7 64-bit boots up on the T60p w/ T7600 Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz and 4GB DDR2-667 RAM almost as fast as my "old" W700. Granted, I had more start-up apps, background services, etc. (about 40 fewer processes at this time), and I'm still rebuilding my application base, but I doubt that it will change a whole lot. It's just a night-and-day difference.

Something else worth noting is that even though my T60p has one of the extra bright "S"-IPS displays, the W700's screen was nice! lol...Definitely brighter than even this particular IPS screen. I'm very glad that the 16:10 ratio is retained in the W701. That's a big deal. The 15" UXGA 4:3 screen is about as "tall" as the 17" WUXGA 16:10 display. Funny how this darn thing weighs next to nothing compared to the W700, too.

Right here right now, I'm strongly leaning towards staying with Lenovo over Apple. I'm still going to wait, though. I'm still in my just-got-a-new-toy-talk-to-me-next-week state with my new IBM Thinkpad T60p. Woohoo! You know how it is!

(P.S.: This "mini-blog" is fun! Great crowd!)

>>> Crunch
...I just sold my W700...
**************
Do you feel a big difference between typing with the W700 and the T60p ?
Which is the most comfortable ? Is the palmrest really higher on the W700 ?
Is the numeric pad easy to use ?
I'm very concerned about the typing comfort without caring about the size'n weight
--------------------------------------------
...So I'm back on my T60p, and I must tell all of you who are still on the fence about Solid State Drives, just how HUGE a difference the SSD makes!...
********************
Your previous SSD W700 was SATA 150 or 300 ?
With your W701 you've to buy a Crucial C300

PS: The crowd thanks you a lot

Rochefort wrote:>>> Crunch
...I just sold my W700...
**************
Do you feel a big difference between typing with the W700 and the T60p ?
Which is the most comfortable ? Is the palmrest really higher on the W700 ?
Is the numeric pad easy to use ?
I'm very concerned about the typing comfort without caring about the size'n weight
--------------------------------------------

I wouldn't say that it was that different, no. Both are extremely comfortable to type on, but the W700's leyboard is about 3" (about 10mm) higher up than the T60p. That's because the W700 has two layers of technology goodness underneath the hood, instead of one. It can house up to two internal 2.5" drives (HDD's, SSD's, or any combination thereof, which is why you can run RAID on that monster, and with the Ultrabay drive caddy, you can take that number up to three internal drives if you're like me and don't care about optical drives. I have always preferred a 2nd hard drive (or a third in the W700) to any optical drive. It's much faster to install Windows from a bootable USB stick than a DVD, you know. The graphics card is on the other side of that massive system board, the size of which allows for a PCIe-size and very powerful graphics card that you can actually swap out. My buyer didn't want to pay for the upgraded NVIDIA Quadro FX 3700, which I had put in to replace the FX 2700, so I still have that high-end graphics card for sale.

I can't comment on the numeric pad other than to say that I did not make use of it, but I don't see why you wouldn't be equally as comfortable typing on what Lenovo calls The Beast (W700 lol) vs. typing on other, more "traditional" Thinkpad's. I liked the keyboard just fine.

Rochefort wrote:...So I'm back on my T60p, and I must tell all of you who are still on the fence about Solid State Drives, just how HUGE a difference the SSD makes!...
********************
Your previous SSD W700 was SATA 150 or 300 ?
With your W701 you've to buy a Crucial C300

PS: The crowd thanks you a lot

Moi? <blush> And I love ya back. Actually, I kept my SSD that I had bought separately from the W700, the Intel X18-M MLC SSD to be exact. It's a SATA 300, and is identical to Intel's X25-M which is getting "best SSD" reviews all over the place. I think Intel has won at least a dozen of awards for its excellence in SSD technology. What sets them apart from the rest is that they have better wear leveling, and excellent read's/write's when it comes to small files. Everybody usually looks at the sequential read/write's of large files of 100MB-1GB and beyond. That's not what you want to look at when comparing the specs of one drive to another for the purpose of making a decision as to which one to buy, because most of the time, when you boot up, launch applications, shut down, browse the web, etc., the drive doesn't load huge chunks of files, but instead, it reads and writes small, sometimes tiny files and a lot of them at that. The Intel X18/X25-M SSD's (both Gen1 and 2) perform highest processing those files. Intel's drives are no slouch reading large files either. They are rated to read over 250MB/s, but "only" 70MB/s. If you get the 160GB version, the latter goes up to 100MB/s, though, in the current Gen2 drives. The sequential read/write speeds are only relevant when you transfer large files. If that's what you do mostly, then a different drive can be better.

My next SSD will likely be the 2nd generation Intel X18/X25-M 160GB for the increased capacity obviously, and the slightly elevated write speeds. The Gen2 models also do even better as far as wear leveling is concerned, and therefore last longer and are more consistent throughout its lifetime. Unlike Gen1 drives, it also supports the TRIM command which is incorporated in Windows 7, which manages better consistency when writing to the drive. You can also download the Intel SSD Toolbox software, which gives you the ability to do some maintenance, most of which is for Gen2 drives only.

What I've heard through the grapevine is that Lenovo will carry Toshiba SSD's in 128GB, 256GB, and eventually 512GB size denominations. I've never heard of any drives from Crucial. I guess they ought to perform well since memory is all they do.

By the way, the W700 is back on Lenovo's site, along with Windows Vista Ultimate lol...It looked like a work in progress, so they might just add the W701 to-day! <drool> As I always like to say, anticipation is half the fun, and right now, I feel as though I have a new toy in my T60p, especially after cleaning out the fan and heatsink last night.

Let's see if we'll see the W701 today.

Hi Crunch
I'm a big SSD fan since the beginning.
I've bought an Intel X25E since its debuts.
For security I prefer external drives and I'm waiting for the Seagate BlackArmor PS 110 USB 3.0 Performance Kit which provide an USB 3 port by ExpressCard.
In France,we just have the W510. For the W701..........!!!??

I'd love to see IPS panels go back into the Thinkpad series again. Until then I am more than happy with my T60 and its IPS panel. The weight ist around 2,4 kg and that is outstanding for a vertical height comparable display when comparing it to the Macbook Pro 17 inch that is around 3 kg.

The battery time of around three hours is less than I need, therefore I am looking for alternatives. Unfortunately the W701 do not seem to be marketed for battery life. A T701 could be marked that way. The new W701 should be bundled with a trolley...

With the intel gpu, I am not able to watch blueray movies, that's what made me thinking about "upgrading my computer". I do not want to switch away from thinkpads because I need the trackpoint. Just played a few minutes on an apple trackpad and while its far better than the one of any competitors, it falls so much behind to the trackpoint.

Rochefort wrote:Even the HP trackpoints ?

Yes I've had two new Elitebook Workstations this year. Neither of them had track points as smooth & precise as a ThinkPad T or W series. No matter how much adjusting I did, they were very poor.
As much of a monster the W701 looks to be I'm seriously considering one.
.
Cheers...

archer6 wrote:
Yes I've had two new Elitebook Workstations this year. Neither of them had track points as smooth & precise as a ThinkPad T or W series. No matter how much adjusting I did, they were very poor.
As much of a monster the W701 looks to be I'm seriously considering one.
.
Cheers...

1) HP out coz the trackpoint .I'm happy to stay with my so beloved TP

I am intregued with all the SSD praise.
How are you all coming to grips with the fact that SSD's don't last forever?
They only support a finite number of writes per cell.
IOW they do wear out.
Is this not a issue in real life?
Tnx.

schmidtj wrote:I am intregued with all the SSD praise.
How are you all coming to grips with the fact that SSD's don't last forever?

SSDs're so pleasant to use, my old T60p is night/day with an X25E SSD
I don't care about longevity coz I backup every day on a Raid 1 5 drives NAS .
Anyway all the HDD're obsolete after 2 years (SSD too)

Crunch wrote: ...I just sold my W700...

Was the W700 to heavy to sit on your lap for a long time? How was the fan noise?

When are they going to release this darn thing? I'm getting impatient!

I haven't even ordered it yet and I still have to wait another 6 weeks for them to ship it! It's like waiting for BMW or Mercedes to build your car.

Crunch wrote: So I'm back on my T60p, and I must tell all of you who are still on the fence about Solid State Drives, just how HUGE a difference the SSD makes! It just struck me after preparing an emergency "just-in-case" installation of Windows 7 x64 on a hard drive the other day, before I packed up my W700 and exchanged it for some serious Benjamin's. Windows 7 64-bit boots up on the T60p w/ T7600 Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz and 4GB DDR2-667 RAM almost as fast as my "old" W700. Granted, I had more start-up apps, background services, etc. (about 40 fewer processes at this time), and I'm still rebuilding my application base, but I doubt that it will change a whole lot. It's just a night-and-day difference.

Hi Crunch,

Can you tell me what SSD you would recommend using with a T60P (I have a 8744 model) and whether there is anything special I need to do to get it working? I was also looking forward to the W701 but by the looks of it will be a while until it comes out (and with all the issues I see with all the new I7 laptop releases from all manufacturers I think I will wait a while before ordering one) so I figured I might as well upgrade my good old reliable T60P.

Still waiting for that w701


Are they going to release it this quarter or 2nd quarter? Not a whole lot of first quarter left now (end of march)....

I just spoke with our sales rep at Lenovo about when the 701 is coming out. S/he said it would be released at the end of the month or early April.

Just in case others were wondering....

Bring_back_IPS wrote:Was the W700 to heavy to sit on your lap for a long time? How was the fan noise?

Well, the fans(!) (plural, as it has two fans on each side, just like it has two ThinkLight keyboard lights) didn't really have to work all that hard, as for one, there was the other fan, and for another, it's like a double decker system board, so there is more room to get the hot air out. It helped that the vents are placed well, too.

As for its weight, I didn't have a problem with it taking it outside to work in the sun, or from room to room. The crazy 400nit brightness helped with using it outside as well. The battery life was a joke, though. 2 hours. That was it. I did travel with it twice, though. Once in a car trip to Palm Springs, and once internationally! I didn't buy a carrying case for 17 inchers. I just packed really well in a suitcase.

peon01 wrote:Hi Crunch,

Can you tell me what SSD you would recommend using with a T60P (I have a 8744 model) and whether there is anything special I need to do to get it working? I was also looking forward to the W701 but by the looks of it will be a while until it comes out (and with all the issues I see with all the new I7 laptop releases from all manufacturers I think I will wait a while before ordering one) so I figured I might as well upgrade my good old reliable T60P.

I like the Intel drives. They are simply the very best and no longer that expensive, and they are so worth it. When I back up my system, I usually do a mirror copy to a 100GB 7200rpm drive. When I switched back to the T60p, I wanted to see what a difference it made in this Thinkpad, and as was the case with the W700, there simply is no comparison. It's nothing like 5400 vs. 7200rpm drives. The Intel SSD's are just unbelievably faster than any hard drive. I tried two versions of the Samsung 128GB drives (one of their "G1's" and a "G2"; G=Generation), and they also performed extremely well. However, if you look at any review, I mean any one of them, it will say things like "Intel blows the competition away", "(...)but when compared to the Intel drives, these new SSD's were once again crushed by any one of the Intel drives". They also keep collecting award after award.

Depending on what you want to spend, and what minimum size you can live with, the least expensive that you can get is the Intel X25-M 80GB MLC. It is identical to the X18-M, except for its form factor (1.8"/2.5"), if you have a netbook. There's also the Intel 25-E SLC, but it only comes in the 64GB size, but the "E" stands for Extreme, and SLC SSD's are faster to begin with than MLC's. Having had both, I would get the X25-M either in 80GB or 160GB, and make sure you get the G2 (Generation 2) version, as it supports wear leveling even better than the Gen. 1. Unless you're moving tons of 5GB files on a consistent basis, you will wonder how the Extreme drive could possibly be any faster than the Mainstream one.

schmidtj wrote:I am intregued with all the SSD praise.
How are you all coming to grips with the fact that SSD's don't last forever?
They only support a finite number of writes per cell.
IOW they do wear out.
Is this not a issue in real life?
Tnx.

Hard drives don't last forever either. And no, it is not an issue in real life whatsoever. They'll last for a good number of years and that's with heavy use, so unless you're planning to keep the drive forever, you'll be fine with longevity. As I just said above, make sure to get the Gen. 2 of the Intel X25-M, which will last even longer, and, more importantly, they will last and perform at the same insane speeds to boot!

Crunch wrote:Right here right now, I'm strongly leaning towards staying with Lenovo over Apple.

My new T510 has completely restored my enthusiasm, after a slightly better than average experience (as far as ThinkPads go) with my T500/400 models.

I could not be happier or more satisfied than I am with how fast, cool and quiet the 510 is. With a great keyboard and very nice display, it's everything I had hoped it would be.

Sitting here side by side, my new 15" MacBook Pro vs. ThinkPad T510 reminds me of just why I greatly prefer ThinkPads. It's like being home again, this new ThinkPad is that good.

Crunch wrote:I'm still in my just-got-a-new-toy-talk-to-me-next-week state with my new IBM Thinkpad T60p. Woohoo! You know how it is!

(P.S.: This "mini-blog" is fun! Great crowd!)

Yes... I do know how it is!

I too find this "mini-blog" a great thread.

Cheers...

What's more important? IPS or RGB LED? I've noticed that Apple makes a lot more noise about the fact that they have brilliant LED displays besides IPS. For the latter, you have to dig deeper and the context in which they do mention IPS is mostly the wide viewing angle aspect of it.

@Crunch

and look at the price of that thing too

Crunch wrote:Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh man, h0ol.y SHHHHHHHIIIII********....finally!!!!!!!!!!!! Clicked on a random link and this is what I got:

The latest and the greatest from HP with military grade protection from dust, shock, whatever the hell else, and just like that, kit says IPS next to where the screen is being described! Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh......................

It also has sRGB, Adobe RGB, 97% and full color gamut, DisplayPort, AND not only an HDMI port, no, it's got T-W-O HDMI 1.3 ports. Geez Louise, Lenovo is too *****Expletives removed by Moderator***** CHEAP to even include a DisplayPort with audio!

Oh yea, and by the way, it has its own color calibrator as well and beats the W701 with NTSC color gamut @ 133%; Adobe RGB Coverage 100%; sRGB Coverage 100%.

Check it out...It's their DreamColor Display, the same technology as their (IPS) Dream Color monitors. 17" WUXGA WVA 16:10 so 1920x1200 (WVA=Wide viewing angle, i.e. IPS) 30-bit color, 1B colors! With a B! And this crazy list is what gfx cards you can put in 'em: ATI FirePro M7820 graphics with 1 GB dedicated GDDR5 video memory
NVIDIA Quadro FX 3800M graphics with 1 GB dedicated GDDR3 video memory (same as W701)
NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800M graphics with 1 GB dedicated GDDR3 video memory (same as W701)

The ATI is certainly NOT like the W701. I gotta go get a XAnax, folks! :D:D:D

Could you post a link to the actual HP laptop?

Crunch wrote: and whatever we are to make of the "RGB LED"

OK, I'm going at this from 'first principles' having done lighting and electrical design with LEDs... Hopefully the marketing drivel isn't using the terminology incorrectly.

RGB LED backlighting is an awesome thing.

CCFLs wear out after a few years as the phosphor degrades. They get yellower/pinker and dimmer as time goes on. After a few years, I can generally no longer calibrate a CCFL backlit screen at any reasonable display brightness. And they're generally hard to replace because it's consumer stuff and disassembly/reassembly is fraught with peril. I've done six screens... four successfully, destroyed the other two by touching the wrong place in a moment of inattention.

White LED backlights ahve the same problem. They're phosphor based. The phosphor degrades, often pretty quickly, Depends on the phosphor and how hard they're driven.

RGB leds though are just solid-state quantum devices. No phosphor. The semiconductor junction isn't immortal, but you're talking tens to hundreds of years at full power instead of just a few thousand hours. Even better, color balance can be adjusted by the backlight without messing with the curves driving the panels. So you can adjust the temperature, white-balance, etc, without any banding.

In short: About bloody time! I'd love love love the 400nit screen in the W700, but I know it will be dead in a few years. I'll bet the 701's LED screen will still be perfect after a decade.

Thank your for your very informative post! It is good to know that aside from the obvious features RGB LED can also be expected to provide much longer life-spans at accurate colour levels. Given that RGB-LED-backlit screens tend to give oversaturated colours (as others here stated as well), is it actually possible to reduce these "unnatural" effects for banal purposes like watching movies or everyday´s work by adjusting the colour profile?

Marin85 wrote:Given that RGB-LED-backlit screens tend to give oversaturated colours (as others here stated as well), is it actually possible to reduce these "unnatural" effects for banal purposes like watching movies or everyday´s work by adjusting the colour profile?

I don't know how you'd do it on Windows, but I'd hope so. What you want for normal web/computery stuff is an sRGB color profile.

xiphmont wrote:I don't know how you'd do it on Windows, but I'd hope so. What you want for normal web/computery stuff is an sRGB color profile.

You're not running Windows? I can see and select the color profiles (including the sRGB) on my OS X installation. Is there a way to export the settings or maybe copy them somehow? I bow before thee for all of your screen technology expertise...(and most especially for your willingness to share it! )

Thanks...

Crunch wrote: You're not running Windows? I can see and select the color profiles (including the sRGB) on my OS X installation. Is there a way to export the settings or maybe copy them somehow? I bow before thee for all of your screen technology expertise...(and most especially for your willingness to share it! )

Thanks...

Windows has a folder full with color profiles, too. I doubt that this is the right solution, though.

Bring_back_IPS wrote:Windows has a folder full with color profiles, too. I doubt that this is the right solution, though.

Agreed. By the way, IPS is back. My new iPad has both an LED-backlit LCD, along with IPS technology! All of 9.7" of it. haha...The brightness setting is like my T60p. Setting it above 75-85% is great for Bluray's, but blindingly bright for anything with a light background.

Something else that I found interesting is that Hydis (the former BOE-Hydis) which made the Super-IPS Flexview screens "for a handful of ThinkPad T60p's" in early 2006, will likely partner with Apple for exactly that: "FFS IPS screens" for iPad's. Apple can't make them fast enough to meet the extremely high demand. If only Steve Jo.. ...ah never mind, I'm not gonna say it.

I think that some Thinkpad tablets come with IPS screens, too. A tablet is a nice toy, but I need a computer on which I can do some work. This is what pays the bills...

Bring_back_IPS wrote:I think that some Thinkpad tablets come with IPS screens, too. A tablet is a nice toy, but I need a computer on which I can do some work. This is what pays the bills...

I wouldn't call the X series ThinkPads toys, but the iPad definitely is one. lol...And yea, I love my 15" 4:3 UXGA screen, but now that I've had 17" WUXGA (and 16:10, not 16:9), the only laptop I can currently consider is the W701.

I should just get a darn monitor, huh? LOL...

I was ready to order an X201 tablet but they disappeared from the website. The X200 are not good for me - I do not like the track point.

And yea, I love my 15" 4:3 UXGA screen, but now that I've had 17" WUXGA (and 16:10, not 16:9), the only laptop I can currently consider is the W701.

Me too. I just do need the extra weight and wide screen. But this is the only way I can have the height of the 15" 4:3 screen. Is that progress? Heavier and non-IPS?

Bring_back_IPS wrote:Me too. I just do need the extra weight and wide screen. But this is the only way I can have the height of the 15" 4:3 screen. Is that progress? Heavier and non-IPS?

Exactly. Even a 15" 16:10 would not give me the height that a 15: 4:3 affords me. It is a tad bulky for travel, though.