Lenovo W701 vs. HP EliteBook 8740w, which has IPS!

[Crunch]

Alright, so I really didn't expect to find a laptop w/ IPS after Lenovo's W701's specs had revealed that it did not have IPS. And I certainly didn't expect to find out that the manufacturer is HP! I checked around a bunch more, and it does seem to be true. HP calls their IPS display the "DreamColor" display, and that will be available in April, May at the latest.

The HP EliteBook 8740w. And not only does it have IPS, but this EliteBook has, or at least will have, an LED-backlit 30-bit IPS panel w/ 1 billion colors with a very wide gamut (133%). As you can see, it is very similar to the W701 as far as specs are concerned, but it actually gives you some additional options.

Besides the NVIDIA Quadro FX 2800 and 3800 graphics options from NVIDIA on the W701, this HP EliteBook has both of those, as well as a third option, the ATI FirePro M7820. This card also has 1 GB of dedicated video memory, but it's GDDR5, and, at the same time, is much cheaper (almost $500 less) than even the NVIDIA FX 2800. I'd love some opinions as to which card I should get, if I am really going to go this route. This would be my first computer that is not a ThinkPad in 12 years, and, amongst laptops only, it would be the only non-ThinkPad laptop that I have ever owned.

Besides the clearly superior panel, which, as I said, is not yet available, it has very similar specs as the W701, such as two USB 3.0 ports, one eSATA, Firewire, Intel's 6300 Ultimate-N (3x3 MIMO), and it even has a color calibrator (optional), as well as a Trackpoint! I have read, however, that HP's trackpoint is inferior to that of ThinkPad's. As was true with IBM's ThinkPad's, and which Lenovo charges for, the three-year warranty is included!

Here are a couple of additional links, including some pre-configured models, and you can also configure your own (CTO).

Remember, while the DreamColor (IPS) option is there for an additional $550 (or $570 with a 2MP webcam), it reportedly won't be available for another month. I also like the fact that you do not have to purchase Windows 7 (see the "Free-DOS" option), since I already own a full license of the OS. Takes off exactly $102 + tax (9.75% in my case), which can pay for the webcam, Bluetooth 2.1, and another add-on.

So what do you think? W701 or HP's 8740w? One thing's for sure. I'm really glad that I won't be switching to a MacBook Pro.

[Oliver26n]

I hate to put a damper on the excitement, but I am not sure this is an IPS display. If it is, I would expect HP to be really noisy about that. Their previous laptop dreamcolor display was completely different from the desktop Dreamcolor display. It was a TN screen with the ability to display 24 bit color. Basically HP's name for the same display that Dell was putting in the M6400 and the XPS models. Do you find any direct reference to 30 bit capability or IPS panel on the HP site? I feel the IPS part on that website is pure unsubstantiated speculation.

That doesn't mean the HP isn't worth the money, however. It could be PVA or a really good TN. One benefit of the HP model is that you can switch between color profiles using software they build in. No more over-saturated DVD movies or websites.

[QFoam]

I think the IPS claim stems from the following HP press release:

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press ... 324xa.html

"Dressed in a gunmetal anodized-aluminium finish, the HP EliteBook 8740w Mobile Workstation is HP’s most powerful mobile workstation to date. It delivers advanced graphics and performance capabilities, along with the ability to produce accurate, predictable and consistent color through its HP DreamColor display."

"The DreamColor display option enables professionals to work with deep, accurate colors for precise results every time. Able to display more than 1 billion active colors – 64 times the capabilities of a traditional display – the 8740w utilizes a 30-bit notebook LCD panel to provide a level of color control previously found only on the deskbound HP DreamColor LP2480 Professional Display."

Then when you click on the links they provide to the "DreamColor display," you end up at the product page for the desktop HP DreamColor LP2480zx Professional Display, the 24" IPS display listing for $1,999. Nowhere on HP's site can I find a reference to the 8740w along with a reference to IPS or "in-plane switching." Anyway, you should be able to contact the guys listed at the end of HP's press release to find out for sure:

Editorial contacts:
Jim Christensen, HP: jim.christensen@hp.com
Mike Hockey, HP (notebooks): mike.hockey@hp.com
Kiley Hayward, A&R Edelman for HP: kiley.hayward@ar-edelman.com

Note that the quickspecs for the 24" LP2480zx display say that its typical power consumption is 42 Watts. Adjusting that power requirement down for the smaller size of a 17" display produces a requirement of about 21 Watts, which would be one heck of a lot of power for a laptop display to consume (probably substantially more than the 400 nit display of the W700).

It would be interesting if that "HP EliteBook 8740w touts IPS display" article is wrong, because it has been syndicated to all over the web.

[Oliver26n]

The desktop Dreamcolor displays have been a completely different beast from the laptop Dreamcolor, hence the $2000 for the desktop display and $500 for the laptop Dreamcolor option. My opinion is: until/if HP declares it as IPS themselves (any company that is using an IPS/wideview display in a laptop and isn't boasting about is stupid, in my opinion), you should assume it's a souped up TN or PVA. I personally wonder if the 30 bits is real or if HP is going to roll out the asterisks in some sort of correction. The laptop dreamcolors were always listed as 24 bit.

[Marin85]

Unlike W701, HP EliteBook 8740w does not have an option for the i7-920XM, which is probably anyways not a big deal to most.

[Oliver26n]

Weird. I would think it plugs right in anyway. Perhaps it's a temporary thing. More interested in the screen matter right now.

[Marin85]

Weird. I would think it plugs right in anyway. Perhaps it's a temporary thing.

It is the same socket as the other i7-QMs, so compatibility can´t be a problem. The only problem may arise from the heat management. The i7-920XM has 10W higher TDP. But as you say, it may be just some temporary thing. We will see.

More interested in the screen matter right now.

Me too!

EDIT: 3 sources say pretty much the same, "up to 820QM". Let us hope they just repeat the information available at the moment and this is not final.

[Oliver26n]

Big problem with these HP notebooks is that as far as I know, they simply don't have the same discounts/incentives as Dells and Lenovos, and they end up being very pricey. Other than that, I would have no problem using one of these beasts. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[pae77]

The HP's look interesting but they sure look very expensive compared to the deals available (EPP & SPP prices plus coupons) for Lenovo.

I know this is getting a little OT but I just thought I'd mention that I'm using a "borrowed" consumer grade HP DV73183cl (with i5 cpu & nvidia G105m GPU, & 4 GB DDR3 1333 ram) right now while my T61p is being repaired at EZ Serv and, I have to say overall I'm pretty impressed with the power and how cool running this thing is, compared to my T61p and unlike the HP's mentioned above, this is not an expensive machine.

Really miss the Thinklight (of all things) and am having trouble getting used to the layout of the keyboard, although the keyboard has a perfectly acceptable feel to it. I'm also impressed with most of the HP software on this fairly new consumer grade machine. Don't much care for the display however, but with an external display, this thing is quite decent. It doesn't get very hot even playing CODMW2 and it plays it far far better than my T61p. In fact, it's almost like an entirely different game, the difference is that great. The highest temp I've seen is about 68C after a couple of hours of playing CODMW2 whereas my T61p would be in the 90's (but handling it).

But I'm starting to shop for my next laptop as I now see that my T61p is kind of outdated and I am very interested in the W510 as it seems like a lot of computer for the money (with discounts), if only they would get the FHD display back in stock.

But based on how impressed I am with this ~$1k consumer grade HP, I would be interested in the HP mentioned above in this thread if it could be had at comparable prices to the W510.

[Oliver26n]

They do have a lot of advantages. But I got my quad core Dell M6400 for 2800 and I don't see how you could configure one of these HP for anything like that.

[pae77]

While waiting for the W510 w FHD display to become available, I decided to give an HP DV8T a try (purchased from Costco so I can return w/i 90 days even after using it). Although obviously no W510 by a long shot, this unit has some pretty impressive specs for a fairly modest cost of $1200 (which includes a 2 year HP warranty):
* Intel® Core™ i7-720QM Processor at 1.6GHz
* 6MB L2 cache
* 1333MHz front side bus
* 6GB DDR3 SDRAM (2 DIMM) 1333 MHz
* 500GB (7,200RPM) SATA Hard Drive
* SuperMulti DVD±R/RW drive with Double Layer Support
(an additional internal SSD or HD can be added later if I decide to keep this thing).
* 18.4" Diagonal High-Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display; 1920 x 1080p native resolution
* 1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 230M Graphics
* Wireless-N Mini Card
* Integrated 10/100/1000 Gigabit LAN (RJ-45)
* Built-in Altec Lansing speakers (including a sub I believe)
* ExpressCard/54 Slot
* 4x USB 2.0 ports (one shared with eSATA port)
* 1x HDMI Port
* 1x IEEE 1394 Firewire Port
* 1x Notebook Expansion Port 3
* Integrated Webcam + Fingerprint Reader with HP Imprint Finish

I'll be really curious to see whether the display and graphics work out for my purposes which is mostly watching Blueray rips, some gaming, & video editing aside from general stuff. I've seen some good reviews on its 18.4" FHD display but I'm not thrilled that it's glossy. But on the lesser HP that I'm currently testing, mentioned earlier above, I really like the audio quality though headphones which is way better than my T61p and never glitches and it has built in dual mics and dual headphones out which I think is pretty cool. Also the built in speakers are pretty impressive for a laptop. And the DV8T supposedly even has a built in sub woofer (not sure whether that is correct or not). Overall, I'm just surprisingly impressed with the apparent quality and how well everything is integrated on the DV7 with i5 processor that I've been playing with for the past week and the DV8 with i7 720 should be a lot more powerful. Of course, it's a huge monster that weighs about 8.5 lbs but I mostly intend to use it as a desktop replacement so that's not a huge concern. If it doesn't satisfy, Costco will take it back so I have nothing to lose by trying it out for up to 90 days. It's supposed to arrive in about a week to 10 days from order date (today). So it should be fun to play around with while I wait for Lenovo to get its supply and other issues solved.

One more thing I noticed on the DV7 I'm using is that the keyboard has the same blue colored rubber things that are under the keys of the NMB keyboard on my T61p and the feel is very similar (except perhaps a little lighter touch) to an NMB. The only thing I don't really like about the keyboard is no think light or back lighting and it's harder to orient myself by touch alone on this keypad, but that may be mostly because I'm not yet used to the layout and feel. But the key presses feel just great.

This will be the first non Thinkpad ever for me, (except for the DV7 HP I'm currently using while my T61p is being repaired). The just ordered DV8t standard configured unit doesn't come with Bluetooth, but I've never really needed that and to get that added on would cost almost $100 extra cause I would lose the discounted price on this pre configured model and BT is just not worth that much to me as I realize I've never actually even used it on my T61p, except to test it out. USB 3.0 seems to be a work in progress so I don't think I'll miss that too much at this point. I don't see a need for 16 GB ram at this point for my uses. I'll just use the e-sata or firewire ports for attaching external drives if I need faster transfer rates. So it's possible this unit may be able to tide me over for a while, instead of going for a W510 at this time.

Although they are obviously not as tough as Thinkpads, the build quality and engineering seems to me to be pretty good on these units, as far as I can tell, especially considering the price. The big question to me is whether the display, graphics and overall ergonomics will ultimately satisfy or not.

[Oliver26n]

I noticed on HP's website that the 15" 8540w is also slated to receive a Dreamcolor option in May. Unfortunately, it seems to be no less expensive than the 8740w, so unless you need something smaller....

I also want to add that unless you are a photographer or graphic designer sending work to a professional printer, these expanded gamut screens are of little to no use, and are often a liability. They make movies and websites look over-saturated. The HP's do have the advantage of an advanced OSD that allows you to switch color profiles on the fly, but it's still a $600 option and you should know why you are getting it.

[Crunch]

Man, this blows. I, too, was suspicious as to why HP is not making more of a deal about the screen type, but then again, they are. This DreamColor display is supposed to be the creme de la creme of laptop monitors. But googling anything on the web such as "8740w+IPS" does not generate any results other than that one article about it, which, apparently, is simply incorrect. I've gone through tons of "Engadget"-type sites, many of which I frequent on a daily basis, and, granted, none of them mention IPS specifically either.

Whatever. I'm not buying a non-ThinkPad that does not have a high-resolution display with IPS technology. I also strongly prefer a 16:10 aspect ratio. Two out of the three drones who picked up the phone when I called HP in a (futile) attempt for clarification, promised that the "new DreamColor display that will be coming out in May (one said late April) is supposed to have IPS". The one who didn't said he didn't know, which I would much rather hear that someone who says something just so they don't have to say "I don't know", or give false information in an attempt to gain a customer.

I apologize for not getting this right. I tried to dig for as much info as I thought would suffice before posting this as a matter of fact. Bad Crunch...bad bad bad...lol...But it was nice when it lasted. You know, when I truly believed that I was celebrating the return of IPS to the laptop world. haha...

I am going to take $500 over to my local Apple Store on Saturday, to buy a computer which definitively has IPS. There is no longer an excuse (especially with the recent arrival of E-IPS) for any laptop manufacturer to cry about how they can't get an IPS panel for screens below 20", because it's not economically feasible. This computer I'm buying from Apple has a screen just under 10", and it still has LED back-lighting and IPS. I'm also back to considering the MacBook Pro if its refresh will have IPS.

[Oliver26n]

You're buying an iPad? Lol. I'd like one, but 500 only buys the 16gb version. It will truly mature only when they upgrade the OS to 4.0. Of course, notice how Apple made it very clear that the screen was IPS all along. I doubt the new Macbook Pro's are getting IPS displays. From what I gather, they will be the same sort of enhanced gamut panels the Lenovo's are offering.

[Crunch]

Yup...iPad...I never exceeded more than a few GB's on the iPhone's I've owned over the years, and I'm getting it on the basis of "why not". If I need more, or if I get tired of it, I can just sell it.

And yes, I understand marketing. Although most people don't understand the different between what TN vs. VA vs. IPS technology means. Most especially people who buy Apple products. (not a putdown...just my .02)

I'm interested as to why you think that Apple won't come out with IPS technology on its MacBook Pro's, seeing that they put IPS on something like the iPad?

[Oliver26n]

I'm interested as to why you think that Apple won't come out with IPS technology on its MacBook Pro's, seeing that they put IPS on something like the iPad?

Well, seeing as how Apple made it plain as day that the iPad would have an IPS display, I would expect clear language of the same sort if they were doing it on the MBP. Instead, what we get is weasel words about enhanced gamut screens.

However, I had the pleasure of looking at a previous gen unibody macbook pro last week, and the screen still looked absolutely fantastic, with excellent viewing angles. If they include proper color controls on the new ones, I am sure that it will be a winner.

[zenit]

Yup...iPad...I never exceeded more than a few GB's on the iPhone's I've owned over the years, and I'm getting it on the basis of "why not". If I need more, or if I get tired of it, I can just sell it.

And yes, I understand marketing. Although most people don't understand the different between what TN vs. VA vs. IPS technology means. Most especially people who buy Apple products. (not a putdown...just my .02)

I'm interested as to why you think that Apple won't come out with IPS technology on its MacBook Pro's, seeing that they put IPS on something like the iPad?

Probably same reason Lenovo still uses IPS panels on the tablets. Viewing angles are super important for a device that is likely to be used in off-angles while in slate mode. Considering that iPad is marketed as something to read and watch movies on and knowing how terrible dark scenes look in an off-angles on a TN panel, IPS or OLED is their only alternative.

To be honest, a good quality panel such as the one Lenovo uses on W510 (FHD) or Apple uses on 15" macbook Pro is any bit as good as IPS. They have similar contrast to what one might find on older IPS panels, brighter backlight and dare I say it, the FHD panel on my W510 has better color reproduction than older Flexview thats laying around at work. It is simply more vibrant. The only issue really is the vertical viewing angle.

[Oliver26n]

the FHD panel on my W510 has better color reproduction than older Flexview thats laying around at work. It is simply more vibrant. The only issue really is the vertical viewing angle.


Completely agree. While there are those on this forum who will vehemently disagree, my IPS T60p's color reproduction sucked compared to my RGB-LED Dell.

[Marin85]

Some of us mind terrible vertical viewing angles... But it is good to know that colour accuracy / contrast have improved so much. If they could just fix the viewing angles...

[Oliver26n]

Well, the viewing angles on these new displays aren't bad at all. The Macbook Pro looks really great, and the one I saw was the previous gen. I think that in a year or two, we will be getting to a point where TN vs IPS won't really be an issue.

[dr_st]

While vertical viewing angles is the problem of all TN screens without exception, you may be shocked to learn how noticeable the difference in viewing angles can be across several different TN models. Most desktop TN LCDs viewing angles are completely tolerable in most single-person in-front-of-screen viewing conditions. The wide viewing angle TNs often present in workstation laptops come pretty close.

[Troels]

To be honest, a good quality panel such as the one Lenovo uses on W510 (FHD) or Apple uses on 15" macbook Pro is any bit as good as IPS.

The better color reproduction is to be expected. I'm not going to make any excuses or anything, but the aperture of the 1996-1997 era IPS is not really suitable for laptops, especially not in combination with highly pigmented color filters which does absorb lots of light. I'm positively surprised what Lenovo has tried to do with the W510 panel, it's a big step ahead - especially because it's easily calibrated.

I do however think that color fidelity of TN is off the mark compared to flexviews - regardless of color gamut. By a great margin. Unless you have a TN which by chance can be color calibrated sufficiently. That's the problem that this test illustrated to some extend: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_ ... -9320-9876

A little story: For a short while i owned an Eizo S2243 Wide-gamut S-PVA desktop monitor, and while it could display every shade of color one could ever imagine, the fidelity was completely off even in Photoshop. It looked awful, and not something someone would expect from Eizo at that price point. Even Its predefined emulated sRGB mode was also off. I returned it and bought a second hand NEC LCD2490WUXI with H-IPS panel and A-TW polarizer. I don't have any colorimeter, but it's said to be extremely close to calibrated in sRGB mode.
Color fidelity wise it is actually incredibly close to the flexview (both UXGA and QXGA). I was a bit surprised by this actually, considering there's about 9-10 years difference in technology.
So i think that some people may be looking too much into gamut values compared to what they really need and buys the highest gamut version, if available. I was blinded into believing this too, but they are a waste for most people, unless one wants incorrect colors (and many do). So UWG-CCFLs and RGB-LED? NO thanks...

If there was a 72% NTSC color gamut laptop with IPS panel i'd be all over it.

I think that in a year or two, we will be getting to a point where TN vs IPS won't really be an issue.

Then a different polarizer has to be on the horizon, and someone has to create a market for it. Even NEC discontinued the ATW polarizer. New eIPS LCDs are selling like hotcakes even with large uniformity issues, due to the saving of a few (expensive) polarizers.
I think OLED will take over next, so neither of the LCD structures are going to matter.

[Puppy]

Even NEC discontinued the ATW polarizer.

I've noticed it as well having NEC 2090 UXi (A-TW-IPS). Another bad news is there are very few monitors with reasonable pixel size (around 0.250 mm) in favor of ugly-big-pixel 0.27 mm or more ones. The fact that even a professional monitor level "goes crappy" makes me worry. On the other hand new NEC PA241W having a P-IPS panel does not look that bad except the pixel size.

Talking about the color fidelity of a TN panel is same like the sound fidelity of a phonograph. All the calibration stuff might be correct from direct viewing distance several mm above the display surface but definitely not in real world use. Don't mention typical uneven backlight of notebook panels caused by single lamp without any kind of compensation (like NEC's ColorComp and X-Light).

It is another failed attempt to sell horrible crap (TN panel) to the customer. I don't need (nor expect) a perfect color-calibrated display on a notebook. I just want a display which looks good, have reasonable contrast ratio and viewing angles. That's what a seven years old uncalibrated 6-bit-only IPS panel delivers !

OLED display (in five or ten years ?) might bring some fresh air to the rotten notebook market but I can no longer buy any new notebook now. I rather watch digital camera market where I still have the choice to buy top quality product.

[Puppy]

Most desktop TN LCDs viewing angles are completely tolerable in most single-person in-front-of-screen viewing conditions.

No.

Probably same reason Lenovo still uses IPS panels on the tablets.

Because they haven't found a vendor selling a horrible 3 USD TN panel with digitizer layer yet. That's all. The only technical parameter Lenovo is interesting of is the display resolution for the lowest possible price. An IPS panel 700:1 contrast ratio 178 degrees viewing angle and TN panel 90:1 contrast ratio 20 degrees viewing angle are "exactly similar components" for Lenovo. The same applies for the W510 15" FHD panel. As soon as they find anything cheaper (read worse - like their favorite below 100:1 contrast ratio displays in 14" T series) they will sell it as the "same display".

The only company trying to market a better notebook display quality (regardless of reality) is HP. Sad, isn't it ? The FlexView brand name had a good reputation and should continue. IBM should have never sold the ThinkPad unit nor the name. It was one of biggest bussines failures. It is not about the crappy displays only, there is the keyboard flex of R/T/W models and other things as well.

I'm trying to imagine Canon or Nikon selling a full-frame digital camera with a 1/2.3" CCD sensor because "it is also a 12 megapixel sensor". Do you know any other industry with such alarming decline in quality the notebook one exhibits ?

[dr_st]

I think "yes", you think "no". Both are our personal opinions and we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Oliver26n]

I have to side with dr_st here. The new displays look great, TN or not. Yes, maybe they're not IPS, but this seems to be more of a religious obsession than anything. I look forward to picking up one of these HP's, though, in a month or two. Even if it's not really IPS, the excellent color abilities of these new dreamcolor displays will help with my large format printer.

[Oliver26n]

Anyone else notice that HP is now referring to the WUXGA displays on the 8740w as "wide viewing angle"? Interesting.

[Marin85]

Anyone else notice that HP is now referring to the WUXGA displays on the 8740w as "wide viewing angle"? Interesting.

It seems to me rather like a matter of definition. As somone has said before, wide is a wide notion. But I agree, it may definitely turn out interesting if it is not just another false (and abusive) marketing... They actually referred to it like that from the very beginning, which is most likely also the source of confusion about this display being *IPS*.

[Oliver26n]

I believe another site I saw is called HP fansite, but anyway, at this blog, they have basically concluded it must be IPS. One person sent a media request (or something) to HP and they replied that the Dreamcolor screen is IPS and the ATI card will be able to pump out 10 bits per channel and drive the Dreamcolor LCD (there was some doubt about this).

I certainly wouldn't complain about that.

[Bring_back_IPS]

I believe another site I saw is called HP fansite, but anyway, at this blog, they have basically concluded it must be IPS.

Would you provide a link? It is very easy to tell if a monitor is IPS. There is very typical violet/purple backlight leak at extreme angles.

EDIT: I found it.