Thinkpads Forum

I believe it was in the comment sections of one of these posts:

http://hpfansite.com/category/hp-elitebook/

Boys and girls...it's almost time! For I will have been redeemed! As of right now, we all can order an HP EliteBook 8740w w/ an IPS DreamColor 2 display. I confirmed it with multiple sources at HP today, and it turns out that the fact that it was not available in March - nor in May when it was delayed for a second time - had to do with QA issues. Further proof will be available later this week once the first couple of people who ordered one today will independently verify it.

So let's back up and re-ask the original question which was Lenovo's W701 or HP 8740w? I sold my W700 in March, thinking I was going to get my hands on one of the 8740w's, a W701, or another 17" WUXGA model shortly after.

How awesome is that. Two amazing LCD's this week, both of which will have an LED-backlit IPS display, and both of which also incorporate some additional impressive specs in their respective markets. The 8740w today. And iPhone 4 this Thursday. By the way, HP also has the Core i7-740QM and 840QM CPU's as of today.

So who's jumping ship? I've waited long enough and I'm pulling the trigger on something this week, and I don't mean the iPhone from Apple.

Crunch, have you seen any brightness spec yet for the IPS DreamColor 2 display in the 8740w, and do you know what the max refresh rate is? With all the 3D stuff that's starting to come out, a max refresh rate of 120 Hz vs. 60 Hz is starting to become an important point.

I want to make sure that we're talking about the laptop display, and not the desktop model of the DreamColor 2. And if it's a bright display comparable with the W700, it would be interesting to have a power monitor on the machine while it's idling, then turn just the display off (while at full brightness) and see how much power the display draws. I know that the desktop DreamColor 2 draws a fair amount of power.

And it would be interesting to see a photo of the 8740w w/DreamColor 2 and ThinkPad W701 both turned on and sitting side-by-side. I'm sure some reviewer will do that.

Thanks!

You could actually have 3D even with 60 Hz refresh rate, if it is a must. -> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming- ... ision.html But I guess 3D is nicer with 120 Hz refresh rate. Also, consider that such a refresh rate draws lots of power.

Since IPS paneles are now available for 17'' laptop screens, I am wondering if there is chance for the next refresh of W70x to have an option for IPS.

Also, 8740w does not include options for i7-920XM and i7-940XM, so its cooling system may not be able to handle so much heat, so a manual upgrade is risky. While 8740w supposedly fullfils some level of military standards, I have seen some quite discouraging statistics for laptop reliability.


Cheers,

Marin

Marin85 wrote:You could actually have 3D even with 60 Hz refresh rate, if it is a must. -> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming- ... ision.html

Good link, Marin.

I've been using a box on my standard def TV for 2-3 years that converts regular 2D TV to 3D TV, which works fairly well at the 60 Hz refresh rate (60 fields per second on a standard def interlaced display, in this case). You do initially notice some flicker, although most people quickly acclimate to that and then stop noticing the flicker. It seems to give some people a headache, on the other hand, although they may get a headache with 120 Hz refresh as well (I have a friend I'll have to test that on some day .

But I would be interested in trying to get the NVIDIA 3D kit working on my W700 with the W700's 60 Hz (max) refresh rate, so the above link may help with that. One potential challenge is the angle of polarized light emitted by the W700, vs. the polarization angle of the NVIDIA liquid-crystal-shutter glasses. My W700's display looks black when wearing my existing liquid-crystal-shutter glasses for the above box (I have to instead turn my head sideways by 90 degrees to see the display), although the displays on my other laptops look fine through those particular glasses. It's simply due to the orientation of the polarizers used in the W700's display, which otherwise is unimportant. So I need to find out whether the NVIDIA glasses make the W700's display look black.

It'd be interesting to see how much more power the current displays require for 120 Hz refresh vs. 60 Hz refresh rate. Although if your graphics processor requires up to 100 watts, the display power requirements may not matter.

Off topic: in this case you may also find this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienwa ... 20-hz.html quite interesting.

QFoam wrote:Crunch, have you seen any brightness spec yet for the IPS DreamColor 2 display in the 8740w, and do you know what the max refresh rate is?

I'm still waiting for the spec sheet that will tell us every last detail of HP's new DreamColor 2 display. I'll post it here asap and also send you a PM.

Marin85 wrote:You could actually have 3D even with 60 Hz refresh rate, if it is a must. -> http://forum.notebookreview.com/gaming- ... ision.html But I guess 3D is nicer with 120 Hz refresh rate. Also, consider that such a refresh rate draws lots of power.

Since IPS paneles are now available for 17'' laptop screens, I am wondering if there is chance for the next refresh of W70x to have an option for IPS.

Also, 8740w does not include options for i7-920XM and i7-940XM, so its cooling system may not be able to handle so much heat, so a manual upgrade is risky. While 8740w supposedly fullfils some level of military standards, I have seen some quite discouraging statistics for laptop reliability.

I think upgrading the processor to either the i7-920XM or i7-940XM wouldn't be a problem as far as the cooling system is concerned. It would certainly void the warranty, however. You raise an interesting point, though, about its reliability. Earlier version of the 8740w had memory issues, which caused the system to crash at random. Then there are problems with the machine making strange noises, which may be an issue related to the power management of the Intel Core i7 quad CPU's. I hope these issues are resolved now, but when I hear stuff like that, I'm reminded as to why I've been a dedicated ThinkPad user for over 12 years.

I do want to get a new notebook as well as a new desktop. I might just give the 8740w a try because I am getting almost half off because I ordered two back in March when HP canceled them both because of the issue that ended up delaying all of the 8740w workstations that had been configured with the new IPS display. It looks like everyone who placed an order is getting some kind of discount, so based on that alone, it might be worth it since I could always resell them without losing any money. Decisions, decisions...

As for the W7xx series coming up with a hardware refresh, I don't think that I'm going to hold my breath. Lenovo is terribly disorganized and they take forever to perform even trivial tasks, which doesn't exactly make you think that you're a valued customer. But that works for me, too, so it's all good.

Marin85 wrote:Off topic: in this case you may also find this thread http://forum.notebookreview.com/alienwa ... 20-hz.html quite interesting.

Thanks, Marin, there was lots of interesting info there. I've been doing red-blue glasses 3D, which can be done on all of these machines without anything more than simple software and cardboard glasses. I hadn't realized there was driver support available for it, which opens some possibilities for movies/animation/games. I've been using it because it's the only practical way to make large 3D prints. Although it has the inherent disadvantage that you can perceive blues and greens in the 3D scene but not reds, unlike with the liquid crystal shutter glasses.

But what was particularly interesting is that some of the info indicated that NVIDIA is doing its best to lock out approaches other than its own, and that you may actually end up with more 3D display choices on a machine using an ATI GPU.

And thanks, Crunch, for your efforts to dig up the info on the DreamColor 2.

Hi all ..I just have to chim in here...after reading about the HP8740w here..I went on HP site and did a top of the line test configuration..with the high wide view screen of curse and didn't realize that HP also offers a track point and some type of back lit keyboard,this is really almost thinkpad territory!.. ,,I was very impressed with specs available..sure its expensive but on paper the 8740w looks fantastic, this makes getting the w701 even harder.The reasons for getting a thinkpad is thin with HP's specs .. ....If anyone got one coming please post some remarks specially on the screen..Delivery is supposedly in July on the 8740w thanks

chazz wrote:this is really almost thinkpad territory

A friend of mine's $2,400 T61p died a week or two after the warranty ended and he replaced it with some sort of HP Business laptop. He is very happy with the quality of this HP and thinks it feels much more solid than the T61p. But of course that's just the *apparent* quality of the HP. If you look at recent surveys of laptop reliability, HP has been consistently ranked at the bottom.

Pictures of the new LG IPS notebook LCD (aka HP DreamColor panels) here.
Some panel details here and here. HP still hasn't put details such as brightness, contrast and viewing angles online.

Funny that after all the delays - first orders of these LCD's were taken in about March, the manufacture date of these panels is 2009. Go figure.
Still, looking good so far!

Hats off to HP for at least providing the option to order a machine with a superior screen. It always amuses me to read the excuses from the Lenovo folks on their various blogs about why they don't offer IPS screens any more (excluding the X-series tablet). Surely they could have continued to offer them on the T series - people just would have had to pay more.

I hope all this talk about OLEDs coming in the next year or two is true - I'm really going to want to replace my T60 in that timeframe. What I've heard from folks in the LCD biz is that the lifetime issue is still far from solved, but it's possible my sources are a little behind the times.

jayk wrote:I hope all this talk about OLEDs coming in the next year or two is true

Just don't try to read an OLED display in direct sunlight. People with OLED displays on phones have had a heck of a time with that. On the other hand, placing a laptop's LCD display in direct sunlight can cause it to overheat, and over time can cause bleaching of its color filters, especially if the sun is nearly perpendicular to the surface of the display.

Which is why the new Kindle ads show people using its passively-lit display in sunlight at the beach, where devices like iPads overheat!

Looks like an excellent display, although 17" is a tad or two too wide for me. Wonder what the real LG part number is...

jayk wrote:Hats off to HP for at least providing the option to order a machine with a superior screen. It always amuses me to read the excuses from the Lenovo folks on their various blogs about why they don't offer IPS screens any more (excluding the X-series tablet). Surely they could have continued to offer them on the T series - people just would have had to pay more.

The fact that it is possible to get IPS displays once again has only recently happened and after the blog entries from Lenovo representatives were written. LG apparently now tries to compete on image quality since there are so many companies that are able to supply TN panels. Only three companies produce IPS-derived panels, whereof one of the manufacturers only manufactures TV panels, so it's a great opportunity to take.
LG is also investing a lot in OLED, so maybe this is just a way to sell as much as possible.

The screen is fantastic! The deal is incredible. Hey, did you see that little spec where it says 10-bit per color? Yowsers. HP also resolved all the pesky and persistent memory problems, so at long last, the release of the EliteBook 8740w is a success. By the way, as far as the IPS screen goes, everyone who has it...LOVES it!

But there's one more thing... Every time I am away from the bulletin board world for more than a month, I like to come back bringing joyous news. And this will perhaps even blow the DreamColor 2 IPS screen out of the water...The Apple rumor mill is always going full blast and just as Apple is about to grace its iPod touch line with almost-XGA super hi-resolution LED-backlit IPS displays, the same gorgeous displays currently found on the iPhone 4, here comes what will likely be another winner: MacBook Pro's and MacBook Air laptops with IPS and Multi-Touch!

Apple's laptops, by the way, are crazy thin, extremely well built, the lightest 17" notebooks that there are and they don't use the excuse that most PC laptop manufacturers do: "Oh, well, you know, we can't have more than two hours of battery life because the screen is 17" big and has a lot of power to it, and, umm, at that size and weight, you'll probably mostly use it at home, yes?"...NO! Wrong! Not only does Apple have the weight advantage over every last manufacturer out there, but the battery on their 17" WUXGA MBP lasts for 8-9 hours! That's over six hours better than their closest competitor. They're also not more expensive than the HP 8740w or the W701.

So what do y'all think? You know, we can use Windows 7 on any Mac these days, so there might not be an excuse for us to seriously consider one of those babies... Once they drop, I might just jump ship to the Apple platform altogether.

Hay Crunch
did u get the HP8740?
I was just trying to find some or any infos on w701 vs HP8740w..especially the lcd screen comparison...
after reading the long posts on NBR on the HP8740..really hope they ironed out all those issues many users are having on their 8740..
Iam kinda on the fence and waiting for the next update 17inch W series..hoping Lenovo will bring back a better screen..i (cough... cough..IPS..no excuses anymore.. ) after looking at all the new shinny HP's and Alienwares ..W starting to look really dated if it wasn't for the longer stroke keyboard, cool temp and silent thinkpad design.. HP8740 is mighty tempting..
long shot here but ..if anyone got these two machines to make any comparisons to?
thanks

Crunch wrote:Apple's laptops, by the way, are crazy thin, extremely well built, the lightest 17" notebooks that there are and they don't use the excuse that most PC laptop manufacturers do: "Oh, well, you know, we can't have more than two hours of battery life because the screen is 17" big and has a lot of power to it, and, umm, at that size and weight, you'll probably mostly use it at home, yes?"...NO! Wrong! Not only does Apple have the weight advantage over every last manufacturer out there, but the battery on their 17" WUXGA MBP lasts for 8-9 hours...we can use Windows 7 on any Mac these days, so there might not be an excuse for us to seriously consider one of those babies... Once they drop, I might just jump ship to the Apple platform altogether.

Well said! I had the exact same thoughts just last week when playing with some Mac laptops at Micro Center (where the unibody 17" Macbook Pro is on sale for $1,600, and the unibody 13.3" Macbook Pro for $1,000). I think the 17" Mac is the most perfect 17-incher ever made, but I am not interested in buying one simply because I have no need for such a big laptop. The 13.3" Mac also became somewhat interesting after its weight dropped from the original 5.2 lb to the current 4.5, though there are so many much lighter and cheaper 13" PC laptops that I am not at all tempted by it. At present, the 15.4 Mac is the least impressive Mac laptop for me, with the res limited to 1680x1050 and its 5.6lb weight comparable to many 15.4" PC laptops. However, if someday it drops below 5 lb and a 1920x1200 option is offered, I would be extremely tempted to buy one.

chazz wrote:Hay Crunch
did u get the HP8740?
I was just trying to find some or any infos on w701 vs HP8740w..especially the lcd screen comparison...
after reading the long posts on NBR on the HP8740..really hope they ironed out all those issues many users are having on their 8740..
Iam kinda on the fence and waiting for the next update 17inch W series..hoping Lenovo will bring back a better screen..i (cough... cough..IPS..no excuses anymore.. ) after looking at all the new shinny HP's and Alienwares ..W starting to look really dated if it wasn't for the longer stroke keyboard, cool temp and silent thinkpad design.. HP8740 is mighty tempting..
long shot here but ..if anyone got these two machines to make any comparisons to?
thanks

As a matter of fact, I knew that I was not going to be traveling this year, so I never got the W701 or the HP 8740w. I had the incredible opportunity to get a brand new 27" iMac for almost half off(!), which I couldn't turn down. I've jumped on deals like this before and usually resold the item(s) to turn a quick profit, but as it turned out, I ended up keeping it. I had always wanted a nice-size and high-quality monitor, so this was impeccable timing. That huge 27" LED-backed IPS screen has almost QXGA resolution (2560x1440) and it's super bright at 375 nits. The computer portion of this "all-in-one" has a fairly decent configuration, too. I'm really liking this machine, but in all honesty, I would have never bought that thing at full price or even at only a few hundred dollars off.

It also helped that I had OS X installed on my T60p. I kind of liked it, but it was important to me, too, that you can actually run Windows *natively* on Intel-based Mac's. I can attest to that now, as my Windows 7 Ultimate installation runs flawlessly. At the end of the day, Apple gets its hardware from the same sources that IBM, Lenovo, HP, etc. get theirs.

pianowizard wrote:Well said! I had the exact same thoughts just last week when playing with some Mac laptops at Micro Center (where the unibody 17" Macbook Pro is on sale for $1,600, and the unibody 13.3" Macbook Pro for $1,000). I think the 17" Mac is the most perfect 17-incher ever made, but I am not interested in buying one simply because I have no need for such a big laptop. The 13.3" Mac also became somewhat interesting after its weight dropped from the original 5.2 lb to the current 4.5, though there are so many much lighter and cheaper 13" PC laptops that I am not at all tempted by it. At present, the 15.4 Mac is the least impressive Mac laptop for me, with the res limited to 1680x1050 and its 5.6lb weight comparable to many 15.4" PC laptops. However, if someday it drops below 5 lb and a 1920x1200 option is offered, I would be extremely tempted to buy one.

I totally agree with you on Apple's 15" MacBook Pro. It's lame that you can't get a WUXGA (1920x1200) display. What's even more lame is the fact that the base configuration only gives you a 1440x900 screen and that SXGA+ is an "option" which, of course, costs extra.

I am, however, glad that they have a matte option again, which they didn't a year and a half ago. Glossy is fine for a desktop computer but never ever for a laptop. Their 17 inchers are awesome, unless of course you want a smaller one but that's the one that I'm waiting for. I also like the fact that they kept a 16:10 aspect ratio when most other manufacturers have shifted to their precious "Full HD" 16:9. Again, not a problem for a monitor with a 20"+ screen size but a no-go for a laptop display.

Speaking of waiting for the next laptop, when can we expect the successor to the W701??? I realize that it hasn't been that long since the W701 came out, but it's not exactly getting the best reviews and it didn't have the "Wow-a-17-inch-ThinkPad-...neat!" -factor that the W700 did.

Crunch wrote:I had the incredible opportunity to get a brand new 27" iMac for almost half off(!), which I couldn't turn down...I had always wanted a nice-size and high-quality monitor, so this was impeccable timing. That huge 27" LED-backed IPS screen has almost QXGA resolution (2560x1440) and it's super bright at 375 nits.

Congratulations! I have tried the 27" iMac at several local stores and enjoyed the experience very much. The resolution is actually higher than QXGA, since 2560 x 1440 = 3,686,400 whereas 2048 x 1536 is only 3,145,728. The pixel density is kind of high for an external monitor (108.79 DPI), but as long as you don't place it too far from you, it shouldn't be a problem.

But I have a suggestion for you. One of the 27" iMac's that I have played with had a very dim screen, even at maximum intensity. As you may already know, certain IPS panels have a tendency to lose brightness unusually fast, and that dim screen that I saw may suggest that the 27" iMac uses one of those panels. If I were you, I would avoid cranking up the screen's brightness too high, to help preserve the screen.

BTW, I just ordered the Dell U2711! I am so excited!

pianowizard wrote:BTW, I just ordered the Dell U2711! I am so excited!

Do share your experiences when the screen arrives.

dr_st wrote:Do share your experiences when the screen arrives.

I didn't want to go off topic but since you asked, I will!

This U2711 (2560x1440 IPS) arrived yesterday. I bought it to replace a Dell 2407WFP (1920x1200 PVA) that I had moved to my piano for displaying sheet music (see http://67.214.227.38/~thinkpad/forum/vi ... 21&t=52525). 2560x1440 gives 60% more pixels than the 2407WFP's 1920x1200, and I find this extra 60% quite helpful for multitasking. The U2711's 108.79 DPI is the highest among currently available desktop LCDs, and so things look a bit small. Right now I am using this U2711 and my Dell 3008WFP (2560x1600 IPS) side by side -- it's great to have so many pixels! This U2711 is the first 16:9 monitor I have owned, and I must admit this relatively new aspect ratio still looks a bit odd to me. As expected for IPS screens, both have excellent contrast, beautiful colors, and unparalleled viewing angles. However, both panels have issues that are rather common among IPS screens: they both have anti-glare coating that gives a grainy appearance, and when showing a white background, both panels have regions that look a bit more red than the rest of the screen. The former issue is more pronounced on the U2711, whereas the latter is more obvious on the 3008WFP. Despite these shortcomings, I still like both monitors very much and recommend them highly.

Thanks!

dr_st wrote:Do share your experiences when the screen arrives.

pianowizard wrote:
I didn't want to go off topic but since you asked, I will!

This U2711 (2560x1440 IPS) arrived yesterday. I bought it to replace a Dell 2407WFP (1920x1200 PVA) that I had moved to my piano for displaying sheet music (see http://67.214.227.38/~thinkpad/forum/vi ... 21&t=52525). 2560x1440 gives 60% more pixels than the 2407WFP's 1920x1200, and I find this extra 60% quite helpful for multitasking. The U2711's 108.79 DPI is the highest among currently available desktop LCDs, and so things look a bit small. Right now I am using this U2711 and my Dell 3008WFP (2560x1600 IPS) side by side -- it's great to have so many pixels! This U2711 is the first 16:9 monitor I have owned, and I must admit this relatively new aspect ratio still looks a bit odd to me. As expected for IPS screens, both have excellent contrast, beautiful colors, and unparalleled viewing angles. However, both panels have issues that are rather common among IPS screens: they both have anti-glare coating that gives a grainy appearance, and when showing a white background, both panels have regions that look a bit more red than the rest of the screen. The former issue is more pronounced on the U2711, whereas the latter is more obvious on the 3008WFP. Despite these shortcomings, I still like both monitors very much and recommend them highly.

- Which of the two do you like more?
- Which of the two would you recommend going for? (Maybe Pros & Cons supporting the case for both)?

crashnburn wrote:- Which of the two do you like more?
- Which of the two would you recommend going for? (Maybe Pros & Cons supporting the case for both)?

Before answering this, I should first explain my ideal way of using a computer: I like to push the monitor as far away from me as possible so that more desk space is freed up, and I like to lean back on my chair because I find that the most comfortable posture.

Given this personal habit, monitors with low pixel densities are obviously better than those with high densities. Thus, I like the 3008WFP more, whose 100.63 DPI is lower than the U2711's 108.79 DPI. Because images and texts look so small on the U2711, I am placing it closer to me than usual, and I am leaning forward instead of backward. (Incidentally, that's also why I try to avoid using laptops whenever possible, since they have very high pixel densities.) Some people overcome the problem of high pixel density by scaling things so that they look bigger, but I don't like that because the main reason I buy high-res monitors is to get more real estate, and scaling things up would just negate the real estate advantage.

However, the U2711 is better than the 3008WFP in other ways. Like I said, it's lit more evenly than the 3008WFP. Further, I think its all-black bezel looks nicer than the 3008WFP's gray bezel, and the 3008WFP's stand wobbles a lot whereas the U2711's is much sturdier. Also, the U2711's 16:9 is better for watching widescreen videos than the 3008WFP's 16:10 -- I can finally watch The Office without any black bars! Last but not least, the U2711 is about $500 cheaper than the 3008WFP.

Just wanted to say that I do now own a HP 8740W with Dreamcolor 2, got it in late December. Screen is fantastic, but then I am also happy with my W510's FHD display. The best part is printing pictures. When working in a color managed environment, prints come out *exactly* as I saw them on screen, something I could never manage on a TN display.