Thinkpads Forum

Hi all - I'm looking at buying a W520 in the near future and want maximum cpu horsepower. As of now, that means the 2920XM chip. HOWEVER, ES versions of the 2960XM chip are popping up, and since I don't yet know if/when Lenovo will offer the 2960 in the W520, I'm thinking of buying a cheaper 2720QM chipped W520 and swapping the chip out with a 2960XM. If Lenovo offers the 2960XM chip, I'll just buy a W502 with it directly from Lenovo, but for now, I'm looking at a chip swap.

Anyone know if the stock 2720QM W520 has the same cooling hardware and power capacity to handle a 45 watt(2720QM) to 55 watt(2960XM) chip swap? I wouldn't wanna do this if the newer chip is more than the 2720 W520 can handle.

The 2960XM chip is power rated the same as the 2920XM chip(both are 55 watts), so I -could- buy a W520 with a 2920XM chip in it and probably be safe doing a chip swap, but I'd rather not spend the extra money to do so and would like to start with a much cheaper 2720QM W520.

The 2720QM is the cheapest W520 that allows for 32G total memory, which is why I was thinking of starting there...

Yes, the W520 can handle a 55W CPU.

But, it doesn't like CPU swaps unless you're swapping the 2720QM for either a 2820QM or 2920XM.
I'm not sure Lenovo will offer 2960XM support, since they could already have put 2760QM chips in the W520 but haven't done that yet.
I'd buy the machine based on what it can do now, not what it could do in the future.
(There doesn't seem to be any real reason for not supporting it, though, and you may just be the first to try it.)


But for 1000 dollars on the base W520, I'm not sure that's what you'd want to do.

Considering that for the 300-500MHz that you gain by spending that large amount of cash, you could get 512GB of SSD storage. Which, if your tasks are hard drive bound (I suspect that they might be), will give you a much larger boost for that cash.
300MHz doesn't make the computer 5 times faster but an SSD does.



But for maximum power I'd suggest grabbing a 17" Sager laptop. For the same price you can get a laptop with the i7-980- a 6-core desktop processor, which also comes with a good GPU as well (it beats the Quadro 2000M, for sure).

It isn't a ThinkPad (no TrackPoint, glossy screen, not as tough against abuse and liquids, not a ThinkPad keyboard) and it isn't really portable either (not good battery life).
But if you want maximum power in a laptop, that is what you'll want- Lenovo just doesn't make anything like it.

(Though if they made a W720 with those configuration options... yeah.)

I have replaced the i7-2820QM in my W520 with an i7-2960XM (QS) for almost a month. It works great. It survived 8 hours 20 minutes of non-stop Lenovo Full System Stress test! No thermal unit upgrade needed. Make sure you use a decent thermal paste, though.

Thanks for posting, guys. Thitiv, I read your posts here & elsewhere about the cpu swap, which was what got me to thinking about doing this.

Q-Ball, I know about SSD/ram options, but the set of apps I use include some single cpu processing apps for which I need maximum single core horsepower. While the W520 with the 2920XM chip has more than enough total mips for my needs, I want to max out single core capabilities as much as possible.

I'm planning on maxing out memory at 32G and will use one of the newer, fast Intel SSDs, so the only thing remaining is what kind of chip do I use. No need for a power GPU, either; just uni-processor mips x 4

Any rate, back to my original question: does anyone know if there's a cooling or power difference between a STOCK W520 with a 2720QM chip vs. a W520 with a 2920XM chip? It's nice to know that thitiv's 2820QM box could handle the upgrade, but I have to be careful about Lenovo saving a couple pennies on the lower end 2720QM box by using cheaper, less capable cooling & power components.

I could end up doing as thitiv and starting with a 2820QM chip, but that would add ~$200 to the costs...

@AMATX, thank you

The Hardware Maintenance Manual mentions different FRUs for 45-watt and 55-watt processors. It is also confirmed by a few postings on forum.notebookreview.com http://forum.notebookreview.com/lenovo- ... d-464.html. I cannot remember the exact post unfortunately. As I recall, someone who had access to both 2720QM/2820QM and 2920XM describes the thermal unit of 2920XM processors as more powerful *and* noisier.

I read your other post on Lenovo's forum inquiring on availability of a W520 with OEM 2960XM CPU. There was a discussion on another forum as well that it would likely not be available---as we may learn from what Lenovo did with W510's when the i7-940XM came out to supercede i7-920XM. W510 with 940XM was not offered as an option.

thitiv, thanks for the info

Not necessarily what I wanted to hear, but needed to hear. In the back of my mind, I was thinking there -was- a diff in cooling hardware for the 2720/2820QM chips, compared to the 2920XM, but I wasn't sure about that or where to check it out. Could be I read it in the thread you indicated, but didn't remember the details. I've read that particular W520 thread a lot, but there's a LOT of material posted there over the last several months.

Interesting that your 2820QM box seems to be handling the 2960XM chip without overheating. I wonder if Lenovo over built these boxes a bit and they can handle substantially more powerful chips? Or, maybe you did a great job of seating/pasting the new chip, along with higher quality paste than Lenovo uses.

I guess where I'm at now is that when I save up the money to buy a W520, I'll compare pricing and determine what makes the most sense. Depending upon which benchmarks one uses, the diff between a 2920XM and 2960XM isn't huge(maybe +- 10% ?), but as I posted above, I'm after max mips via single cpu and not so much concerned about the total mips available with all cores/cpu in the 2960XM. I won't be maxing out the entire box, but would be maxing out one or two of the cores, along with misc. usage on the other cores.

I don't want to wait for the next model(W530?) from Lenovo, as I need something sooner than that.

@AMATX, you're welcome. I had experience replacing the i7-720QM in my former W510 with an i7-920XM as well. The thermal unit for i7-720QM in the W510 was doing a great job, even with the 920XM inside. I could overclock the 920XM to a certain extent as well. These made me more confident doing a similar thing with my W520!

Remember that Lenovo's stress test doesn't test the GPU and CPU under load simultaneously, so it cannot be used as a full load stability test.
People who use 55w CPU's in their W510's and W520's and say they are stable seem to refrain from running proper stress tests, so beware.
The cooler in my W510 fits the way it should, but can barely handle a 45w CPU + 35w GPU if they are under load at the same time, on hot days it will crash.
The W520 can have a 55w GPU and 55w CPU, there is no more room for a cooler in a W520 then there is in a W510, the so coolers performance is similar.

Just sayin' I have used hours and hours diagnosing this problem, don't count on a 55w CPU to be stable, best case scenario is that it will throttle when stressed.
If you disagree and claim that a 55w CPU is in fact stable and not throttling, do the proper tests before you risk giving bad advice.

Adda - interesting point; well made. In my particular case, I don't stress the gpu much, so I can get by with the lesser gpu and focus mainly on cpu + ram resources, which is why I'm interested in the 2960XM and 32G of memory.

I can see where someone maxing out both the cpu and gpu might encounter cooling issues; fortunately, that doesn't include me.

In addition to the heat sink + fan inside the W520, I do have a decent cooler, so if needed, that would be worth a few degrees in cooling.

Adda wrote: If you disagree and claim that a 55w CPU is in fact stable and not throttling, do the proper tests before you risk giving bad advice.

@Adda, thank you for your concern.
I am in a "hot" climate, in south-east Asia.
This W520 is the only computer I have and I trust it with all my production work.
I wouldn't leave it in a state that I don't trust.
I was just sharing my experience and would not like to have it considered as an advice.

I realize I may have sounded a bit, well aggressive, this was not my intention, rough week

Adda wrote:I realize I may have sounded a bit, well aggressive, this was not my intention, rough week

Take it easy!

It's my birthday today. Let's have some beer!!

thitiv wrote:

Take it easy!

It's my birthday today. Let's have some beer!!

Oh, happy birthday to you!
I'll stick to my drinking yoghurt though, my stomach has been the cause of my troubles.

Cheers and have a nice day.

@Adda, thank you Cheers!!!

thitiv wrote:I have replaced the i7-2820QM in my W520 with an i7-2960XM (QS) for almost a month. It works great. It survived 8 hours 20 minutes of non-stop Lenovo Full System Stress test! No thermal unit upgrade needed. Make sure you use a decent thermal paste, though.

You have made my day! That is exactly what I want to do with my i7-2820QM W520. Please e-mail me any tips, hiccups, etc., thanks.

Regards,

Bert

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Actually Lenovo provides different fan module for 45w and 55w cpu-equipped models.

The fan for 2920xm model has a better-built metal part above the CPU, which is much larger and thicker.

The most important thing is that toobo boost depends on the temperature, if the thermal part could not keep it cool all the time, it could not be 'extreme' all the time.

So I think it's better to change the fan as well as using high-quality thermal paste.

chairsky wrote:Actually Lenovo provides different fan module for 45w and 55w cpu-equipped models.

The fan for 2920xm model has a better-built metal part above the CPU, which is much larger and thicker.

The most important thing is that toobo boost depends on the temperature, if the thermal part could not keep it cool all the time, it could not be 'extreme' all the time.

So I think it's better to change the fan as well as using high-quality thermal paste.

Thanks for the info; this kind of thing is just what I was wondering about. Still not sure what I'm gonna do, but will keep this in mind.

WA2SI wrote: You have made my day! That is exactly what I want to do with my i7-2820QM W520. Please e-mail me any tips, hiccups, etc., thanks.

You're welcome, @WA2SI. You might find these reviews I wrote useful. The content is in Thai but there are a lot of pictures which speak better than words: http://www.thaithinkpad.com/forum/index ... 711.0.html and http://www.thaithinkpad.com/forum/index ... 641.0.html

chairsky wrote:Actually Lenovo provides different fan module for 45w and 55w cpu-equipped models.
The fan for 2920xm model has a better-built metal part above the CPU, which is much larger and thicker.
The most important thing is that turbo boost depends on the temperature, if the thermal part could not keep it cool all the time, it could not be 'extreme' all the time. So I think it's better to change the fan as well as using high-quality thermal paste.

Great tips. Thank you @chairsky!

AMATX wrote:Thanks for the info; this kind of thing is just what I was wondering about. Still not sure what I'm gonna do, but will keep this in mind.

@AMATX, from my first-hand experience, turbo boost works satisfactorily during high CPU loads (according to my standard). You can change the CPU now using a decent thermal paste [FYI, I am using Arctic MX-4] (which should cost you less than $15.00 and see whether the thermal performance satisfies your standard. Buying a replacement thermal unit from Lenovo can be done later but it can be costly.

The FRU's for the 55-watt thermal units are 04W0437, 04W1574, and 04W1575. The ones for the 45-watt are 04W0438, 04W1576, and 04W1577 according to the HMM. You may want to contact your local service center to obtain prices. I'll call Lenovo Thailand perhaps tomorrow to check for the price as well

thitiv, thanks for the link to the Thai Thinkpad site. I, too, had checked out the benchmark comps between the various chips. That's what got me interested in the 2960XM

So, I now have the info I needed, and will wait a while until I have the $$$ to proceed further into this.

Thanks all, for the the help...

thitiv wrote:The FRU's for the 55-watt thermal units are 04W0437, 04W1574, and 04W1575...according to the HMM...I'll call Lenovo Thailand perhaps tomorrow to check for the price as well

I just finished a call to Lenovo Thailand Parts Sale department. They made queries to the *global* inventory system and found that no single piece of these FRUs is available at any known warehouse around the world. It means you *cannot buy* a separate 55-watt thermal unit from Lenovo Parts Sale at present